tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post1053970407353507117..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Telling sinners how to be savedPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-82587522063611492782009-08-30T08:13:59.960-07:002009-08-30T08:13:59.960-07:00Jim, it grieves me to have to say it, but you just...Jim, it grieves me to have to say it, but you just gave a <i>perfect</i> example of someone more ruled by a system than Scriptur — which, thankfully, most Calvinists are not. Every one of your points was already answered in the Scriptures brought out in the post and in the discussion above. Neither Jesus nor the apostles preached as you would preach. Their example is far more persuasive to me than your human reasoning.<br /><br />I'd only note additionally that you can't even do it yourself, even in such a brief note:<br /><br />"[A]Men can not accept Christ nor are they instructed to! [-A] They must come to God...."<br /><br />The Bible tells sinners they must come, repent, receive, believe. So will I. So should you.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-43666339208179296022009-08-30T04:58:28.564-07:002009-08-30T04:58:28.564-07:00Jim, I think you mean ARMINIAN...ARMENIANS live in...Jim, I think you mean ARMINIAN...ARMENIANS live in southeast Europe. Look I've included a map for your benefit http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/lgcolor/amcolor.htmPierre Saikaleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09409964448078910855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-81274282225515272102009-08-30T04:20:08.337-07:002009-08-30T04:20:08.337-07:00Boy is this off. The inverse way of saying God ga...Boy is this off. The inverse way of saying God gave Christ to the chosen is to say that they recieved Christ. The were not responsible for the dispensing or the receiveing, but they get what God puts in them. But clearly the following text (1:13)demonstrates that the recipients are defined as those who are children of God apart from any work of the will or of the flesh. So you need to reconsider that John does not say we are to receive Christ or infer that this means to accept. Man must believe that God will do a work in him to cause him to be born again. To state it differently man needs to be born again and needs instruction on how that is. What you have typed here is Armenian regardless of your understanding of Calvinism. You have not told a hearer the biblical gospel. You have told him what he must do and deceived him into believing that he has the power to do something that he has not. He must know of his inability and what God must do in him. He does not need to be instructed on how to be saved, apart from being told of the rebirth (John 3). He must know that God revealed that he would do such a work (ez 36) and he must come to know as the reformers proclaimed, that GOD must do a work in you. You DO NOT have the ability to excercise REPENTANT FAITH, so do not tell a man to do this, according to Acts 5, he must come to Christ for a new heart and seek the living Christs power to grant him repentance like David does in Psalm 51. Men can not accept Christ nor are they instructed to! They must come to God as Abraham did with a body that is dead and against hope in hope believe that what God promised, he is able also to perform. Please sharpen this article. This is an Armenian affirmation with the Calvinist simply differing on the theology of the results. If you think you are a Calvinist, you must differ from this, God's Gospel is imparted with instruction to believe that God will do what only he can do, apart from which you will perish.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04737909484050699559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1309424945449532232009-08-26T20:09:49.922-07:002009-08-26T20:09:49.922-07:00When was the last time you shared the Gospel with ...When was the last time you shared the Gospel with an unbeliever, and what did you tell them?Stevemdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570522700018323586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-26176446312914866912009-08-26T17:04:07.810-07:002009-08-26T17:04:07.810-07:00Surrender = repent + believe.
When God chose to s...Surrender = repent + believe.<br /><br />When God chose to save me on September 26, 1987 I didn't have a clue about repenting and believing.<br /> <br />My life was a disaster and I had reached a point in my life that I didn't want to live anymore and was too afraid to die. To use a Frielism, "I was done with me."<br /><br />I think my sinners' prayer went something like this, "God, I don't know who or what You are but I can't make it. Please help me." From that day on my life changed. The simplest way that I can describe what happened is that I surrendered.<br /><br />The fact that it was the Holy Spirit working in me to convict me of sin and the fact that it was Jesus Christ that I was praying to and the fact that my salvation was made possible by His life, death and resurrection and God acting sovereignly in my life were all things that I learned later.<br /><br />At one time this bothered me because as I grew as a Christian I didn't think it was the theologically correct way to be born again. But now I just figure that I must have come out feet first.<br /><br />God saves who He has chosen to save and there's nothing we can do to stop Him.James Joycehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15983848193844746369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-78116039640939602732009-08-26T11:14:54.508-07:002009-08-26T11:14:54.508-07:00I would argue that it isn't belief. If I belie...<i>I would argue that it isn't belief. If I believe a tornado will hit my house tomorrow and then do nothing, then by my actions I showed I did not truly believe.</i><br /><br />Belief does not necessarily produce appropriate action. <br /><br />James says that the demons "believe". Yet they do not act on what they <i>know</i> to be true. Their knowledge doesn't save them but that does not mean they don't believe.<br /><br />HeatherCraig and Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11962442989291080899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-13404917669439188782009-08-26T10:33:37.840-07:002009-08-26T10:33:37.840-07:00James Joyce wrote:
Surrender!
That's about as...James Joyce wrote:<br /><br /><i>Surrender!<br />That's about as simply as I can put it.</i><br /><br />James, where in the NT do you see someone urging people to "surrender" as opposed to repent and believe?greglonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05514850772020363684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-7938035603221763482009-08-26T10:08:16.406-07:002009-08-26T10:08:16.406-07:00I would argue that it isn't belief. If I beli...I would argue that it isn't belief. If I believe a tornado will hit my house tomorrow and then do nothing, then by my actions I showed I did not truly believe.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-75606443173852330072009-08-26T09:48:42.689-07:002009-08-26T09:48:42.689-07:00Easy-believism IS belief but not saving belief. It...Easy-believism <b>IS</b> belief but not saving belief. It is a result of offering a gospel invitation detached from a gospel presentation, such as "Believe in Jesus and you will be saved" (Acts 16:31) without the gospel explanation that follows (Acts 16:32).<br /><br />As for the thief on the cross, he didn't have advanced knowledge of doctrine but he confessed with his mouth Jesus as Lord; believed in his heart that God would raise Jesus from the dead; and called on the name of the Lord.<br /><br />Now how did that happen? :)olan stricklandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05345193051857763038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51803338253750066302009-08-26T09:30:45.888-07:002009-08-26T09:30:45.888-07:00Surrender?
That might work against the French or ...Surrender?<br /><br />That might work against the French or the democrats in Washington...<br /><br />;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51178298732755661212009-08-26T09:08:26.581-07:002009-08-26T09:08:26.581-07:00Isn't easy-believism really a misnomer? Becca...Isn't easy-believism really a misnomer? Beccause "easy-believism" isn't really belief, is it? <br /><br />Using the thief on the cross as an example, actual belief didn't require some advanced knowledge of doctrine. Now I'm very passionate about doctrine, but I don't like it when people make it seem like you need a doctorate in theology to be saved.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-41076239015945416542009-08-26T07:06:19.652-07:002009-08-26T07:06:19.652-07:00Great post Dan! Very well balanced - guarding agai...Great post Dan! Very well balanced - guarding against easy-believism and hypercalvinism.olan stricklandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05345193051857763038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-64790051167768913582009-08-26T05:52:53.500-07:002009-08-26T05:52:53.500-07:00Surrender!
That's about as simply as I can put...Surrender!<br />That's about as simply as I can put it.James Joycehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15983848193844746369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-31476343042469913582009-08-26T05:29:44.280-07:002009-08-26T05:29:44.280-07:00"history was telic, not cyclical" ...I l..."history was telic, not cyclical" ...I like that. I'm going to use that in my apologetic evangelism next time I have the opportunity. <br /><br />I think another way to say it is that Paul was appealing to the common grace and general revelation of God in creation. <br /><br />Can't wait to read your book DJP...I'll be praying for your success in this godly work. <br /><br />AmenPierre Saikaleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09409964448078910855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33541837926681046122009-08-26T05:00:44.900-07:002009-08-26T05:00:44.900-07:00Good observations, Frank.
What I see Paul doing i...Good observations, Frank.<br /><br />What I see Paul doing is demolishing his hearers' worldview, bringing the Biblical worldview into direct confrontations. There were not many gods, but one; creation came from one hand, not a team of contractors; history was telic, not cyclical; all was headed towards judgment, and the judge would be Jesus Christ.<br /><br />Then at the end he issues the universal call to repentance on the basis of Christ's bodily resurrection (vv. 30-31), and some do come to faith (v. 34).<br /><br />So as I see it, Paul does what I try to do in my book: lay down the worldview within which (alone) the Gospel makes sense.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-67039620408557350512009-08-26T04:17:59.198-07:002009-08-26T04:17:59.198-07:00What 'you' win them with is the power of t...What 'you' win them with is the power of the Holy Spirit to make dry bones walk. What you win them to is newness of life.<br /><br />It's funny how orthodox Paul was at the areopagus, and how few times he referenced the Bible directly. There's no question that he followed the Biblical outline of history, culminating in the death and resurrection of Christ. But what he said there doesn't look much like what Peter said at Pentecost. It looks an awful lot like, 'believe in Him who created you so that you can be saved.'<br /><br />Because they needed saving, and he was only going to get one shot at it. He didn't have time for a survey of the covenants, or a primer in temple images of sacrifice and atonement. So he used what they had to speak about something pagans could understand: the intentions of an unknown God.<br /><br />Great post, DJP.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-54969226082198387682009-08-26T00:29:30.984-07:002009-08-26T00:29:30.984-07:00Brilliant, brilliant post. Thanks Dan.Brilliant, brilliant post. Thanks Dan.steve shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06186438136791609986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51253126801238089732009-08-25T20:15:05.089-07:002009-08-25T20:15:05.089-07:00Oops, sorry, forgot another good one:
"For C...Oops, sorry, forgot another good one:<br /><br />"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to <b>preach the gospel</b>: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For <b>the preaching of the cross</b> is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are <b>saved</b> it is <b>the power of God</b>" (1 Cor. 1:17-18).Stuart Woodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11984240631695114968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-43182713075913012332009-08-25T20:06:52.081-07:002009-08-25T20:06:52.081-07:00Just a few more verses to consider:
"For I a...Just a few more verses to consider:<br /><br />"For I am not ashamed of <b>the gospel</b> of Christ: for <b>it</b> is the power of God <b>unto salvation</b> to every one that believeth..." (Rom. 1:16).<br /><br />"Since we heard of <b>your faith in Christ Jesus</b>, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof <b>ye heard</b> before in <b>the word</b> of the truth <b>of the gospel</b>; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and <b>bringeth forth fruit</b>..." (Col. 1:4-6).<br /><br />"When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because <b>our testimony</b> among you <b>was believed</b>) in that day (1 Thes. 1:10).<br /><br />"For unto us was <b>the gospel</b> preached, as well as unto them: but <b>the word preached</b> did not profit them, not being mixed with <b>faith</b> in them that <b>heard it</b>" (Heb. 4:2).Stuart Woodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11984240631695114968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-48133780470214925582009-08-25T19:20:21.027-07:002009-08-25T19:20:21.027-07:00Stefan
I know what you mean.<b>Stefan </b><br /><br />I know what you mean.Chad V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02478790778245966382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-34432001653592919272009-08-25T19:04:29.225-07:002009-08-25T19:04:29.225-07:00Sorry DJP,
I was aware of the rule but didn't...Sorry DJP,<br /><br />I was aware of the rule but didn't consider whether my comment was transgressing. <br /><br />Won't happen again.<br /><br />That is interesting about "belief". I knew there must be a specific type of belief that saves because of James 2:19. <br /><br />The demons have a much more accurate picture of God than we do but are not remotely interested in bowing in willing submission. <br /><br />HeatherCraig and Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11962442989291080899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-43121145425796532202009-08-25T19:02:18.050-07:002009-08-25T19:02:18.050-07:00"...in (for example) Genesis 15:6," I me..."...in (for example) Genesis 15:6," I meant to write.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-26493366661636085462009-08-25T19:01:03.743-07:002009-08-25T19:01:03.743-07:00Chad:
I wouldn't argue that using "trust...Chad:<br /><br />I wouldn't argue that using "trust" versus "believe" in a Gospel presentation is necessarily inferior or superior.<br /><br />But in terms of learning how to live as a believer and understanding the nature of my relationship to God, by God's grace it certainly helped me.<br /><br />In this age of easy-believism and cafeteria Christianity, it wouldn't be a bad concept to explore in an adult Sunday School or discipleship class.<br /><br />...And the word "trust" does get used a lot in the English <i>Old</i> Testament—especially in the Psalms, where it seems most often to translate the Hebrew word <i>batach,</i> admittedly a completely different word from the Hebrew word for "believed" in Genesis 15:6.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-48246824186247348772009-08-25T18:40:42.832-07:002009-08-25T18:40:42.832-07:00The Greek word means believe and trust. It's u...The Greek word means believe and trust. It's used of believing a fact to be true (i.e. John 11:42), and of trusting a person (i.e. probably 2 Timothy 1:12; Titus 3:8).DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-38323977290614687492009-08-25T18:32:26.398-07:002009-08-25T18:32:26.398-07:00I know just enough greek to get me into trouble bu...I know just enough greek to get me into trouble but I do believe that the bible usually says literally, "believe into Christ". DJP, am I right about that? <br /><br />I think it may be a mistake to get too wrapped around the axle about wether the word trust or believe is superior. Either term can be mi-used or misunderstood. and either term is just as good as the other. I think the focus should rather be on a proper and comprehensive presentation of the gospel so that when we say "trust" or believe" we are clear about precisely what it means to believe in Christ. <br /><br />I think it's also a mistake to think that you can really say everything that could be said in just one witnessing opportunity. It's rare for a person to be saved after only hearing the gospel for the first time. Often many different hearings encompassing many scriptural truths are required. I know a man who was saved teaching the catechism to his children over an extended period. Think of how much doctrine he learned himself while doing that. Part of the catechism includes a definition of what it means to believe. Also, David Brainerd comes to mind. Nine years of ministering to the same tribes of indians before he saw any one saved and his first convert was his interpreter. Think of how many sermons he must have translated for Brainerd over those years, all the teaching he imbibed by doing so before he was brought to saving faith.Chad V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02478790778245966382noreply@blogger.com