tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post114012408839535773..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Bashing CBA, and other hobbiesPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140537856998592292006-02-21T08:04:00.000-08:002006-02-21T08:04:00.000-08:00Do you periodically feel yourself incapable of exp...Do you periodically feel yourself incapable of expressing yourself without being gratuitously hostile and insulting? Is this one of those times?<BR/><BR/>In your world, a store deciding not to carry a book, for what it considers good reason, is "banning"? In mine it's "free enterprise."DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140531869940378162006-02-21T06:24:00.000-08:002006-02-21T06:24:00.000-08:00DJP,Don't be deceptive. The post and many subsequ...DJP,<BR/>Don't be deceptive. The post and many subsequent threads several times make the statement that certain books (it doesn't really matter which ones, does it?) should not be carried. They should not be carried because of their theological content, even if someone wanted the book to read it. Denying someone from buying a book is called "banning". (Even if they can buy the book elsewhere, that particular bookstore has banned the book from sale)<BR/><BR/>Now... maybe that's not where you want to be. Congratulations, I don't want you there either.<BR/><BR/>BTW, I think stuff from Osteen and Warren are generally crap and not worth the time spent. If you don't take my word for it, read it for yourself....Darelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06253863496769360853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140474901978122482006-02-20T14:35:00.000-08:002006-02-20T14:35:00.000-08:00JH - Thanks for your thoughts. I agree, we can't ...JH - Thanks for your thoughts. I agree, we can't ban, but we must equip. Last week in our women's Bible study, we focused on some essential doctrines. We'll continue with that this week but we'll also look at some quotes (that I will present anonymously) from some questionable writings and I hope the ladies see the error on their own. It is my prayer that they develop the confidence to test all things by scripture.<BR/><BR/>Praise God your wife is in the role of gatekeeper!!nancyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02195858517405623656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140459688895829382006-02-20T10:21:00.000-08:002006-02-20T10:21:00.000-08:00Who's advocating burning or banning books? More o...Who's advocating burning or banning books? More often, I see that claim (along with allusions to Taliban, theocracy, etc.) as the lazy "out" of someone who doesn't like seeing his favorite ox gored -- or, to speak Purgatorially, his favorite sacred cow tipped.<BR/><BR/>IOW, "I don't care what the Bible says, I love ____, so don't criticize it." But you can't just come out and say that. So you use the dodges.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140455409221195722006-02-20T09:10:00.000-08:002006-02-20T09:10:00.000-08:00Hi! What's going on in this thread?;-)Mr. S. Camp...Hi! What's going on in this thread?<BR/><BR/>;-)<BR/><BR/>Mr. S. Camp, very nice. I am of the opinion that there cannot be enough jokes with "brokeback" in it. So that's my favorite.<BR/><BR/>Sally, I hear you.<BR/><BR/>DJP, I'm hoping I heard Sally right, since it does seem that this topic is drifting toward book-burning. Censorship bad, even by Christ's standards(Lk 9: 49,50). As a Baptist, I'm firmly convinced of religious liberty. Just a little peek at the "tension" between Reformers and Baptists will tell you why I feel this way. Maybe catch up on why a Baptist founded Rhode Island, and you'll see what I mean. Let's not go down that path, starting with banning books and land us back in "beaten and imprisoned for neglecting to baptize their infants."<BR/><BR/>M'kay?Darelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06253863496769360853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140410077150763962006-02-19T20:34:00.000-08:002006-02-19T20:34:00.000-08:00It would be great if everyone would sit down and r...It would be great if everyone would sit down and read Charnock's <I>Existence and Attributes of God</I>. But that's not going to happen. Some of it is desire, some is capacity, but whatever the reason, it's not realistic. Some people are just going to have a hard time reading Jonathan Edwards. Hey, I'll admit it: <I>I</I> have a hard time reading Edwards. So what do we do?<BR/><BR/>Excerpts. Snippets. Bite-sized pieces. Although there are several different issues here, one of them is how can we get new interest in the old writers. I think this is a way. <BR/><BR/>I used to be opposed to this. I used to think that it was all-or-nothing. But having kids has helped shape & soften my view. We have the book & video <I>Dangerous Journey</I>, which is a majorly abridged version of <I>Pilgrim's Progress</I>. But my kids love it. And I hope that one day they'll be ready for the real thing. <BR/><BR/>So what are practical ways we can do this? I think Spurgeon is more accessible than most, and (thanks to Phil) you've already got more <A HREF="" REL="nofollow">Spurgeon out there</A> than the average person could read in a lifetime. Puritan Paperbacks (from the Banner of Truth) have some abridged versions of Puritan works. My own pastor has <A HREF="http://www.teachingresources.org/" REL="nofollow">a ministry</A> where he excerpts Puritan writings based on a certain theme. I'm sure there are tons of resources like this that are out there. <BR/><BR/>As useful, practical, and necessary as many of the suggestions about churches and pastors/elders are, my two cents are recommend some of this stuff to people you know. Not quite in the same category as the above, but awhile back Centuri0n recommended <I>The Deliberate Church</I> as an counterpoint to <I>the Purpose-Driven Church</I>. That's the kind of thing I'm thinking about. Otherwise, the Olsteens, Eldredges, and others will continue to be on the top of the list.Matt Gummhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14698469400042045105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140409965159867712006-02-19T20:32:00.000-08:002006-02-19T20:32:00.000-08:00Let's try to sort this out.So, Sally, for no expre...Let's try to sort this out.<BR/><BR/>So, Sally, for no expressed Biblical reason, you judge Reformed writers as bad for judging others as bad, though they do it for expressly Biblical reasons. What you tell them to do is not to tell others what to do. You scold them for scolding. You want not to be of the world, but others mustn't point out Biblically what that means. You want to preach the Gospel, but others mustn't Biblically point out when others are preaching false Gospels.<BR/><BR/>And when you ask, "Why not sit back and relax knowing that God will save those he chooses to save?", are you aware that every Reformed reader will instantly recognize that you haven't a clue about their position?DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140309518400251592006-02-18T16:38:00.000-08:002006-02-18T16:38:00.000-08:00relevantgirlI agree that there are those who love ...relevantgirl<BR/><BR/>I agree that there are those who love the Lord, and are serving him, who are in the ECM.<BR/>I am not that well aquainted with the whole movement. I know Brian McLaren is one of the leaders in the ECM, and I would caution anyone to not read his teachings. He is quite unbiblical in many of his teachings.<BR/>There is an excellent book you could read, if you haven't already, by D. A. Carson, called, Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church. I got one at Walmart for under $10.<BR/>Thanks for sharing your heart.donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140308765260719922006-02-18T16:26:00.000-08:002006-02-18T16:26:00.000-08:00Gina, "What are you doing for the kingdom of Chris...Gina, "What are you doing for the kingdom of Christ?"<BR/><BR/>That's a good question that we need to always be asking ourselves. Am I using my gifts for His kingdom and glory? Am I being bold in the truth with love? Am I growing in my disciplines of Reading the Word, praying fervantly, fellowshipping with the saints, and worshipping my Savior? <BR/>If the Church was constant in this, then the Lord would be adding to the Church daily, those who are being saved.<BR/>Preaching the gospel cuts hearts deep. Some to salvation by repentance and faith through grace, and others will hate you. (Acts 2:37; 7:54)<BR/>The kingdom of Christ is warring against the kingdom of darkness, and we need to recognize this, and be willing to fight and contend for the faith, against all the subtle lies of Satan and his servants.<BR/>God's kingdom will prevail against the gates of hell. That's a promise, but it takes discplined disciples to do so.<BR/>Those are my thoughts for what they're worth.donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140305613283715262006-02-18T15:33:00.000-08:002006-02-18T15:33:00.000-08:00Were I a time-travellin' reporter, I'd love to fir...Were I a time-travellin' reporter, I'd love to first interview several of the more obviously 'imperfect' author's (Warren, Eldridge, etc.), then return to 1405 BC & interview Baalim's...uuh...<EM>donkey</EM> to survey just how much in common ~ <EM>if anything</EM> ~ they have...<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.ibcarlos.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">¡sbgtfa!</A>IB Dubbyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14110161040854928853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140281028451724002006-02-18T08:43:00.000-08:002006-02-18T08:43:00.000-08:00Like Gina, I move in and through the CBA as an aut...Like Gina, I move in and through the CBA as an author. I don't think my books would be classified as "red" (hopefully, they'll classify as "read"!), though my upcoming novel deals with a sensitive enough issue it might qualify.<BR/><BR/>The thing I see lacking is a deeper call to radically follow Jesus. Folks would rather settle for a formulaic Christianity with easy answers and good diets that work than the weightier message of the cross and dying to self. I suppose that message wouldn't sell books, though.<BR/><BR/>The thing that worries me in this post, however, is linking anyone with emergent thoughts to heresy. Be cautious. There are many, many folks who love Jesus and have good, sound theology, who question modernity's approach to Christianity.Mary DeMuthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06102710597183711588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140276259087944602006-02-18T07:24:00.000-08:002006-02-18T07:24:00.000-08:00Interesting comments. As someone who is involved w...Interesting comments. As someone who is involved with the CBA on a daily basis, through author, editor, agent interviews, sending out my own manuscripts for hopefull placement within the CBA, I know this is a group of people (on the whole) who love the Lord & desperately want to touch others with the love of Christ.<BR/><BR/>I have friends who will bash Falwell or Robertson, etc, no one is perfect, not any individual or organziation. My reply to those who complain is this: how many lives for God have you touched? What are you doing for the kingdom of Christ? <BR/><BR/>My desire is of course to tell a good story and entertain. The fact that I'm a Christian who loves God will seep into my story. Will that touch someone? I hope so. Without the CBA, I may not have had the chance. The ABA isn't exactly banging Christian's doors down to write stories that glorify God.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Some of the books that others here complain about have changed lives for the better. God uses the imperfect. I know because He uses me. <BR/><BR/>Interesting piece.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16151988844185350316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140275871658148402006-02-18T07:17:00.000-08:002006-02-18T07:17:00.000-08:00I know he does; it's just "hard to believe." Somet...I know he does; it's just "hard to believe." Sometimes you just have to wonder if there's not some Lenin or Kim Jong-Il thing going on, you know?John Hallerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13850592322782978335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140242709523504372006-02-17T22:05:00.000-08:002006-02-17T22:05:00.000-08:00[Yes, John Haller, I'm sure Phil can attest to the...[Yes, <STRONG>John Haller</STRONG>, I'm sure Phil can attest to the fact that John writes every book himself (with (extensive?) help from our Main Man, <EM>the "Lead" Pyro</EM>).<BR/><BR/>...and all 60+ volumes <EM>without the help of that thing you're staring at, right now.</EM><BR/><BR/>Or, <STRONG>Phil</STRONG>, has our dear shepherd finally relented on the technology tip?]<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.ibcarlos.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">¡sbgtfa!</A>IB Dubbyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14110161040854928853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140231177431816402006-02-17T18:52:00.000-08:002006-02-17T18:52:00.000-08:00Nancy:This has been an issue that has weighed heav...Nancy:<BR/><BR/>This has been an issue that has weighed heavily on me the past few months. On the one hand, I agree with ib.carlos. Things are clearly getting worse. For some time I have felt that the church is under assault. As a church leader, it is a constant battle not to get carried away, as Phil Johnson has point out, by all the fads.<BR/><BR/>As luck (sovereignty?) would have it, I had the opportunity to talk to Mark Dever about this this afternoon. He and Jerry Bridges are at the church I attend this weekend. Mark spoke to the church leadership (basically a summary of his 9 marks book; GREAT stuff by the way).<BR/><BR/>We have a bookstore at church. Frankly, I think we as elders have failed to keep a handle on it. Personally, I don't have a problem with people reading a wide variety of things, but I can tell you that my perception is that many people are not protected from being led astray. I must admit that I've gone into the bookstore and found books by Benny Hinn or Joyce Meyer. Those don't last long but the fact that they are there is a cause for concern. <BR/><BR/>Mark Dever said you have to have a handle on it. He said he personally approves everything that makes it to Capitol Hill Baptist's book rack. I think the elders have a responsbility to do it. If you can't, then you probably should not have one.<BR/><BR/>I think elders need to be informed about what is going on out there. It's tough to keep up. Last week I was in California and talked to an elder at a church pastored by a TMS graduate (other elders in the church are as well). He did the intro at the ABF we attended and pointed out some cultural markers and trends to make his point. Afterwards I commented to him that I saw the same things in the emerging church. His reply: "Never heard of that; what is it?" Now, in some respects, it's good that he does not know, and maybe it has not made it to the Inland Empire, but I was a little stunned.<BR/><BR/>Recently, a person who attends the class I teach asked me what I thought of Velvet Elvis by Rob Bell. He said the Bible study at work wanted to use it. My initial comment was why not have a Bible study where you actually study THE BIBLE! I bought the book and read it on vacation. Lots of bones (this book would fall into what Mark Dever said today in his talk: go into a Christian bookstore and look at the books that have a scripture index in the back; probably very few do which proves the point: we say scripture is important and give lipservice to it, but we sure don't live like it; the books in the "christian" bookstores are symptomatic of that. <BR/><BR/>At my church, there are other issues. Recently, one of the leaders of Emergent Village was invited to speak at a young adult conference. It's a big church and I only found out about it at the last minute. I objected, but he came anyway. Still processing through how I should deal with that. I don't think the guy did much damage because he had to temper his message quite a bit, but I think we could have done better. (Throwing the question out: if your concerns are rejected, as mine were, what do you do then?)<BR/><BR/>So, enough rambling. I think it is a struggle. I fear it will get worse. I don't think it will ever get better. I think we need to caution our people. We need to protect them. We need to equip them. But, not everyone is going to be equipped as well as someone who has been at the process longer. That means we always need to have our guard up.<BR/><BR/>I still think Mr. Yuck stickers are the way to go. <BR/><BR/>Hope this helps advance the conversation.<BR/><BR/>One other thing, Nancy, I agree with your comment that the women sometimes do a better job. My wife is one of the gatekeepers on books that can be used in our women's ministry. She's fantastic at it (the men used Celebrations of Discipline FCOL). She will nix books that come highly recommended. One was The Power of a Praying Wife. The title sums it up (HEY, pray for your spouse). But the books swerves into a lot of experiential and bad theology territory that is best left unexplored. It was not used and reasons why were given. That's the way it should work.<BR/><BR/>Maybe the answer is to really act like we believe in the doctrine of the sufficiency of scripture. Books that expound on scripture, like MacArthur's (does he REALLY write all of those books?), Dever, Piper, etc. are really valuable. Let's recommend those. Let's fall in love with the serious study of scripture and not the latest fad.<BR/><BR/>Hope that helps.John Hallerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13850592322782978335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140226749282177612006-02-17T17:39:00.000-08:002006-02-17T17:39:00.000-08:00One last cultural marker from me, since none of th...One last cultural marker from me, since none of the rest of these posts are comical. Figure out decade I had an eight year old son!<BR/><BR/><I>It's time for Pyromaniacs!<BR/>And they're zany to the max!<BR/>So just sit back and relax<BR/>You'll read till you collapse<BR/>They're Pyromaniacs!<BR/><BR/>Come meet the Johnson Brothers<BR/>(and the Johnson sister, Dot)<BR/>They run around Sun City<BR/>and the blog-o-verse-a-lot<BR/>John locks they in the tower<BR/>whenever they get caught<BR/>But they get goin'<BR/>and quote John Owen<BR/>and now you know the plot!<BR/><BR/>They all pack away the snacks<BR/>{there's baloney in their slacks)<BR/>They're Pye-ro-maney<BR/>They never refrain-ey<BR/>Pr-ro-maniacs!!!<BR/>Those are the facts!</I>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11531162977820679597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140208401527291312006-02-17T12:33:00.000-08:002006-02-17T12:33:00.000-08:00...Or is that a different kind of monkey...¡SBGTFA......Or is that a <EM>different</EM> kind of monkey...<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.ibcarlos.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">¡SBGTFA!</A>IB Dubbyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14110161040854928853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140208306775631552006-02-17T12:31:00.000-08:002006-02-17T12:31:00.000-08:00Hey, Frank, [the wee brown kid yells across the ro...Hey, <STRONG>Frank,</STRONG> [the wee brown kid yells across the room]:<BR/><BR/>Does this whole discussion fall within the scope of your "Organ Grinder Pparable???"<BR/><BR/>(<EM>heh, heh...</EM>)<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.ibcarlos.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">¡SBGTFA!</A>IB Dubbyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14110161040854928853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140203679798215742006-02-17T11:14:00.000-08:002006-02-17T11:14:00.000-08:00Sorry, I come from the Silver Age. I even used the...Sorry, I come from the Silver Age. I even used the own the "Gwen Stacey Dies" issue of Spider-Man, then gave it away (d-oh!). If it wasn't for Wikipedia, I wouldn't have a clue what was going on in any of the Universes.<BR/><BR/>I imagine Brian McLaren is OK with the diversity in the CBA. Oh, I thought you meant the Conservative Baptists...<BR/><BR/>Jack Brooks<BR/>Georgetown EFC<BR/>newcovenantliving.blogspot.comAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11531162977820679597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140202032534111662006-02-17T10:47:00.000-08:002006-02-17T10:47:00.000-08:00Seriously though:Is the talking monkey great or wh...Seriously though:<BR/><BR/>Is the talking monkey great or what? Behind "Baptists! Pheh!" it's my favorite graphic.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140201872703105252006-02-17T10:44:00.000-08:002006-02-17T10:44:00.000-08:00Campi:Seriously, tell us what you think. I think ...Campi:<BR/><BR/>Seriously, tell us what you think. I think you're being a little vague -- you didn't mention anyone by name and give their home phone#. Can you be more specific?FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140201711295696912006-02-17T10:41:00.000-08:002006-02-17T10:41:00.000-08:00Jack:That's not Grodd -- that's Axwell Tiberius, a...Jack:<BR/><BR/>That's not Grodd -- that's Axwell Tiberius, aka Monkeyman. I know all talking monkeys look alike to some people, but you should keep that kind of racist remark to yourself.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140196470405526652006-02-17T09:14:00.000-08:002006-02-17T09:14:00.000-08:00Honestly,Once money is involved, all bets are off....Honestly,<BR/>Once money is involved, all bets are off. I have serious questions about any true believer selling Christ and the Gospel. What I mean by sell is putting a specific price tag, a desired amount, a minimum amount, etc. It's no wonder the so called CBA or any "Christian" publisher will sell anything just as long as it makes money and has Christ or God or religion mentioned somewhere in it. <BR/><BR/>I agree with Gordan at the top..<BR/><BR/>it's a "business" and that pretty much says it all.Reneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08098978736719699724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140196439815228292006-02-17T09:13:00.000-08:002006-02-17T09:13:00.000-08:00glenn: Excuse by ignorance, but could somebody ple...glenn: <I>Excuse by ignorance, but could somebody please point me in the right direction to find an explanation of the problem with C.S. Lewis?</I><BR/><BR/>I am pretty new to Lewis myself, but to answer your question, Lewis is of questionable orthodoxy. Personally, I think he was orthodox, but he didn't always come across that way. In fact, I won't quibble with anyone who claims he was not because he gave them so much ammunition.<BR/><BR/>For an example, pick up <I>Mere Christianity</I>. There are gems in there, brother--diamonds. The problem is you have to sift through the bird cage linings they are wrapped in. On one page you will find the clearest explanation of the Trinity you have ever read. On the next you will find the most muddled and confused view of the atonement followed by an apology dismissing it as mostly unimportant anyway.<BR/><BR/>Is he worth it? You decide. He was for me. But that's me.Momohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292177473341691525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1140195694815610292006-02-17T09:01:00.000-08:002006-02-17T09:01:00.000-08:00Turk: There is also the gigantic problem that a lo...Turk: <I>There is also the gigantic problem that a lot of people are allowing media "ministries" to replace the local church in their lives.</I><BR/><BR/>Seems like one of our other Pyros has been addressing that in bits and pieces.Momohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292177473341691525noreply@blogger.com