tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post116319164396985640..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Calling him "lord" -- or, Blacks and womenPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163574435337882762006-11-14T23:07:00.000-08:002006-11-14T23:07:00.000-08:00"But when a woman regularly is disrespectful and r..."But when a woman regularly is disrespectful and rebellious, tears her husband down... it's often either winked at, or defended."<BR/><BR/>This is 100% correct--and a shame.<BR/><BR/>KateKatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00035122244780616689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163465030068285642006-11-13T16:43:00.000-08:002006-11-13T16:43:00.000-08:00Excellent post. I really like LaShawn Barber and C...Excellent post. I really like LaShawn Barber and Christine. I remember when you linked to Christine's post awhile back. It created some frustrating comments that were, quite frankly, inevitable in light of how our churches have so eagerly embraced the egalitarian or evangelical feminist mindset. (Biblically speaking, evangelical feminism is an oxymoron). <BR/><BR/>(I also remember someone having to remind me how to spell Chauvinist correctly after I was called one and posted about it... and I am a homeschool educator who apparently attended that discount Language Arts course.)4givenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604421713579961024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163459850800130812006-11-13T15:17:00.000-08:002006-11-13T15:17:00.000-08:00Thanks for the link and the post.Thanks for the link and the post.Leigh Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13059918466503894975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163447778783276952006-11-13T11:56:00.000-08:002006-11-13T11:56:00.000-08:00"I believe that a man feels most loved when he kno..."I believe that a man feels most loved when he knows that he is respected."<BR/><BR/>That is precisely the point of a book entitled, "Love and Respect" by Dr. Emerson Eggerich. He takes a look at the Biblical marriage in places like Ephesians 5:22-33 and fleshes them out with anecdotes and practical examples.<BR/><BR/>My wife and I took part in one of his seminars at church and have gone through his book in a small group "Bible" study. Good practical resource.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the post.mdouglasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09274888295439289907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163430827213073352006-11-13T07:13:00.000-08:002006-11-13T07:13:00.000-08:00Great post! It does no favor to women when the to...Great post! It does no favor to women when the topic of submission is tip-toed around.nataliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10821740286799375290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163421331461679842006-11-13T04:35:00.000-08:002006-11-13T04:35:00.000-08:00I don't think it is necessary to question someone'...<I>I don't think it is necessary to question someone's salvation when they struggle with this, sfb.</I><BR/><BR/>As a brief note: "when they <I>struggle with</I>" it, I'd agree with you. What concerns me is those who don't struggle with it, who've just embraced (and perhaps wholly rationalized) the spirit of the age. If a professedly Christian man abused his wife, he'd be roundly condemned and called to repentance. But when a woman regularly is disrespectful and rebellious, tears her husband down... it's often either winked at, or defended.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163390434529527522006-11-12T20:00:00.000-08:002006-11-12T20:00:00.000-08:00This is a helpful and much-needed reminder, to the...This is a helpful and much-needed reminder, to the unmarried as much as the married. I know this is a common problem. However, by wise counsel such as this, and the work of the Holy Spirit, wives can change. I don't think it is necessary to question someone's salvation when they struggle with this, sfb. We all harbor sinful attitudes and actions and are longing for the day when we are totally free from our sinful nature.Donettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08695632521945765772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163361604324462162006-11-12T12:00:00.000-08:002006-11-12T12:00:00.000-08:00I do not believe that the issue of submission is o...I do not believe that the issue of submission is one only for wives. It is God’s order of authority for all His daughters at all times. We forget the following:<BR/><BR/>Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 1 Cor. 11:3 <BR/><BR/>It is one of the ways in which we are identified as His children, by being Holy and separate from the world. It not just within the confines of a church building that a woman is to be submissive to men. Notice 1 Timothy 2:11-15. <BR/><BR/>A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.<BR/><BR/>Yes, Paul is speaking of what is proper in worship. But his reason for following that model within worship is because it is the model to be followed at all times. Why? He explains by referring back to God’s order of authority as established in the Garden for all His children at all times not just in corporate worship or within the marriage relationship. It is the basic order to which all His children must conform. He makes that clear when he states that for a woman to take the lead over a man is to usurp her role and disrupt God’s order of authority. It is when she is within her own role as God has ordained that she is restored in her relationship with God. It is the model that all Believers must follow. <BR/><BR/>Controversial as it is, it is still God’s commands and we must pattern our lives accordingly. It gets very difficult for women (married or unmarried) who are pursuing careers because they must choose positions that do not dishonor the Lord by exerting her authority over another man. Difficult? Most definitely…this is the world we live in…one ruled by a Liar who will make it as difficult as he can for us to honor the Lord and His Word.Welcome!https://www.blogger.com/profile/06425723181723774730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163293513887069812006-11-11T17:05:00.000-08:002006-11-11T17:05:00.000-08:00This was a very powerful post. I think you said wh...This was a very powerful post. I think you said what was true and I appreciate it.<BR/><BR/>Warmly,<BR/>KateKatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00035122244780616689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163273086159810992006-11-11T11:24:00.000-08:002006-11-11T11:24:00.000-08:00Calvdisy -- sorry my answers are unclear to you. I...Calvdisy -- sorry my answers are unclear to you. I believe I have answered your question, so I don't really have more to add. Sorry that doesn't satisfy you.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163259049963864912006-11-11T07:30:00.000-08:002006-11-11T07:30:00.000-08:00Thanks for this meaningful post. And thanks for s...Thanks for this meaningful post. And thanks for sharing Christine's words. Having been a wife now for 12 years, I'm not laughing at her comments, I'm applauding.Rebekahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14959946409918907667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163252615626570992006-11-11T05:43:00.000-08:002006-11-11T05:43:00.000-08:00I hope women like Christine -- all Christian women...I hope women like Christine -- all Christian women, in fact -- have some grasp of how attractive the attitude she displays is to Christian men ... besides the fact that it is a good thing because it is God's will. <BR/><BR/>The irony that I think many believing women don't grasp is that most Christian men (unless they're moronically dysfunctional) won't be tempted to 'lord over' an obedient, respectful woman. On the contrary, they'll be compelled to value her views, opinions and interests, and provide her with whatever she needs to be happy in the relationship (within the bounds of propriety, of course).<BR/><BR/>Submissive Christian women rule.Chris Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08832290458905110111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163243812551180332006-11-11T03:16:00.000-08:002006-11-11T03:16:00.000-08:00Dan, I enjoyed your and my wife said I could respo...Dan, I enjoyed your and my wife said I could respond as soon as I finished the vacuuming. <BR/>I'll have more to say as soon as I get done putting away the dishes.S.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09746381491495106590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163224013521008042006-11-10T21:46:00.000-08:002006-11-10T21:46:00.000-08:00Not to answer for Dan, but here are some thoughts ...Not to answer for Dan, but here are some thoughts from John Piper on Jesus's command to love. I think they are relevant and applicable to the command to submit in marriage. What do you think? This is an excerpt from a post at my own blog you can click on in the "links to" section at the end of Dan's post (Submission and Marriage in the blogosphere).<BR/><BR/>Excerpt:<BR/><BR/>Do we simply obey out of legalism and allow our hearts to remain enslaved and bitter to God and man? Of course not. This fits well with my reading from John Piper's book What Jesus Demands from the World. In demand #5, Piper writes:<BR/><BR/><BR/> I recall reading a book in college that argued: Love cannot be a feeling because it is commanded, and you can't command the feelings. In other words, love must simply be an act of the will or a deed of the body without involving the emotions or affections. But the problem with this argument is that the premise is false: Jesus does command the feelings. He demands that our emotions be one way and not another.<BR/><BR/> He demands, for example, that we rejoice in certain circumstances (Matt. 5:12), and that we fear the right person (Luke 12:5), and that we not feel shame over him (Luke 9:26), and that we forgive from the heart (Matt. 18:35, and so on. If a feeling is proper, Jesus can demand it. The fact that I may be too corrupt to experience the emotions that I ought to does not change my duty to have them. If Jesus commands it, I should have it. My moral inability to produce it does not remove my guilt; it reveals my corruption. It makes me desperate for a new heart--which Jesus came to give. (Emphasis Mine) (Piper p. 53)Jared Wallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15103128549881990442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163220402009442692006-11-10T20:46:00.000-08:002006-11-10T20:46:00.000-08:00Dan,You never answered my question:Can a woman tru...Dan,<BR/>You never answered my question:<BR/><I>Can a woman truly honor, respect and subordinate herself to her husband if she does not do so joyfully (i.e. from the heart)? </I><BR/>Or to turn the tables a bit: If I show acts of 'love' to my wife begrudgingly and she is dissapointed at my attitude, have I truly loved her? Or does it suffice for me to say, "I don't have to like loving you as long as I perform outward acts that appear to conform to loving you."<BR/>I sense that you answer these questions in a way that is very unclear to me. I thought this post answered it, but from your response, I am not sure now. I am not trying to be snarky, I am just trying to learn.MSChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05419145542442539462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163216045692867952006-11-10T19:34:00.000-08:002006-11-10T19:34:00.000-08:00ebeth -- ...men have enough of a challenge living ...<B>ebeth</B> -- <I>...men have enough of a challenge living up to what God calls them to as Christian husbands, that it only follows [oops, that concept] that we as Christian wives do what we can to make their calling's burden lighter</I><BR/><BR/>As the kids say, "Word."DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163212549418082052006-11-10T18:35:00.000-08:002006-11-10T18:35:00.000-08:00Amen. I think that men have enough of a challenge ...Amen. I think that men have enough of a challenge living up to what God calls them to as Christian husbands, that it only follows [oops, that concept] that we as Christian wives do what we can to make their calling's burden lighter. I have gotten a lot of help in this from an Elyse Fitzpatrick book called HELPER BY DESIGN which a friend pointed me to a couple of years ago. The whole point of this as of what I am responding to at Pyromaniacs is, Follow the word of God by the power of God and He will be blessed, and so will husband and wife.Ebethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02190002073330892056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163211476348542712006-11-10T18:17:00.000-08:002006-11-10T18:17:00.000-08:00Good preaching. Nothing like the Word straight up....Good preaching. Nothing like the Word straight up.<BR/><BR/>"For everyone practicing evil hates the light ... But he who does the truth comes to the light".donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163205837655830952006-11-10T16:43:00.000-08:002006-11-10T16:43:00.000-08:00I didn't eschew outward obedience at all.First, I ...I didn't eschew outward obedience at all.<BR/><BR/>First, I said outward actions were not all Peter had in view. I never denied they were in view.<BR/><BR/>Second, I also described actions that were not from the heart, that were belied by an opposite attitude. ("If he crosses her will, will a curt, curled-lipped 'Yes, lord!' followed by angry, grudging compliance suffice?")<BR/><BR/>Nothing like the post you reference.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163204639975194472006-11-10T16:23:00.000-08:002006-11-10T16:23:00.000-08:00Dan,I couldn't agree more hardily with this post. ...Dan,<BR/>I couldn't agree more hardily with this post. well done. However, I find it intersting that you should speak of obedience from the heart, while eschewing mere outward obedience. This seems to go against the post you made some weeks ago that engendered such impassioned discussion about joyless obedience. Can a woman truly honor, respect and subordinate herself to her husband if she does not do so joyfully (i.e. from the heart)? Can the same apply to obedience to God in general?MSChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05419145542442539462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163202443283828252006-11-10T15:47:00.000-08:002006-11-10T15:47:00.000-08:00Very insightful post.Very insightful post.Lance Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11275043953229783836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163198298559346982006-11-10T14:38:00.000-08:002006-11-10T14:38:00.000-08:00Sorry, didn't post the complete url:www.soulcare.o...Sorry, didn't post the complete url:<BR/><BR/>www.soulcare.org/Counseling/<BR/><BR/>MythofSubmission.htmlKevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11502372241475129093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163198174197870022006-11-10T14:36:00.000-08:002006-11-10T14:36:00.000-08:00Check out this article by when Grudem, "The Myth o...Check out this article by when Grudem, "The Myth of Mutual Submission" <BR/><BR/>http://www.soulcare.org/Counseling/MythofSubmission.htmlKevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11502372241475129093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163195671976343022006-11-10T13:54:00.001-08:002006-11-10T13:54:00.001-08:00Thanks for linking to christine. I have a feeling...Thanks for linking to christine. I have a feeling I'll be doing a lot of reading there.Marciahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09655129514017134176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1163195656436161352006-11-10T13:54:00.000-08:002006-11-10T13:54:00.000-08:00The most amazing thing to me is that there are wom...The most amazing thing to me is that there are women who claim to have been born again that refuse to submit to the Word of God and what it says. Incredible. There were times and places in this world's history where stuck-up, worldly attitudes and Christ-professing women were diamterically opposed. Not so anymore, it would seem, especially if the woman in question is the typical Ameri-Christian.<BR/><BR/>Thank you, Dan, for an insightful post. Thank you, LaShawn and Christine, for being Christians in the face of false professors and self-deceived "sisters".SFBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15754910013380395163noreply@blogger.com