tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post1517234902633181739..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: The Bible as a Fashion AccessoryPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-27437132740177246372008-09-19T19:21:00.000-07:002008-09-19T19:21:00.000-07:00Ah, let's remember that such a practice is very, v...Ah, let's remember that such a practice is very, very <I>American</I>.Letitia (The Damsel)https://www.blogger.com/profile/00506073682846275560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-72152270296608046672008-09-18T20:26:00.000-07:002008-09-18T20:26:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01930864320573865515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-58461422186435647122008-09-18T14:33:00.000-07:002008-09-18T14:33:00.000-07:00Another thing that bothers me about all these hip ...Another thing that bothers me about all these hip bibles in that a lot of the fancy covers are being made with cheap labour in China. I had an email dialogue with Zondervan a couple years ago about this and asked them if they ever publish reports from outside auditors to confirm that their factories are ethical. Their response was that would give their competitors too much of an advantage over them. It ticks me off that their unwillingness to guarantee ethical business practices doesn't give their competitors an advantage. Modern Christianity is so backwards.Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08617366487081605320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-65600753060554225582008-09-18T10:18:00.000-07:002008-09-18T10:18:00.000-07:00Not having time to read all of the earlier posts I...Not having time to read all of the earlier posts I apologize if this is a repeat statement...<BR/><BR/>Regarding the "marketing" of the "Word". Is not the Holy Spirit the only true salesman? After all Christ said: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him..."SavedByGraceAlonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11776477273321289092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-45758021413836291862008-09-16T17:44:00.000-07:002008-09-16T17:44:00.000-07:00I do agree that Biblezines are an area of concern....I do agree that Biblezines are an area of concern. Some of them the content is simply awful. But even if the additional content was good they would still be a bad way to read the bible for most people. This is because the additional content is usually brightly colored and the bible text tends to be plain. Your eye is naturally drawn away from the bible text to the other material that is of less value. Not goodJoannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202063723994341973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51058692076265852912008-09-16T15:59:00.000-07:002008-09-16T15:59:00.000-07:00Dac,I thought about that dynamic as I was writing....Dac,<BR/>I thought about that dynamic as I was writing. I would hope that the cover was just the final factor that kicked a long-standing decision over the goal line. To just walk into a Christian bookstore and suddenly impulse-buy a Bible because you like the cover is -- I'm sorry -- just wrong. On so many levels. <BR/><BR/>However, I've seen this before. I'm not saying this applies to Phil, but I've seen people who are "Bible-philes." They collect them and they love them. (Some even like the smell of them!) Problem is, we don't worship a book; we worship God. Or put another way, the Bible is the frame, but Jesus Christ is the picture. Excited about translations? Yes. But book bindings?Paul Wilkinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01252620549076209358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-6455819807588016172008-09-16T10:05:00.000-07:002008-09-16T10:05:00.000-07:00"i'm pretty sure we could tie just about every pla..."i'm pretty sure we could tie just about every place you spend your money back to the prince of this world..." David Rudd<BR/><BR/>Good point. I was imprecise. My qualms with Zondervan have to do with the content of what they sell and their godless approach to the sheeple of God, and all while claiming to be a Christian publisher. I have a large bone caught in my throat over the NIV/TNIV translabominations. The "products" highlighted in Phil's blog post just made the bile rise a little higher. There are a number of good used book stores that handle gently used Christian books. I like ABEBooks.com - they front for hundreds of individual stores and it's completely searchable, down to the individual store most times.Dave ....https://www.blogger.com/profile/06340206720526412975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-76556726145144889532008-09-16T07:53:00.000-07:002008-09-16T07:53:00.000-07:00David Rudd Agreed.When given a choice I will oder ...<B> David Rudd </B><BR/><BR/>Agreed.<BR/><BR/>When given a choice I will oder a book from Reformation Heritage over say a place like Amazon, but I'm more worried about the content of the book than the publisher. Besides, some Islamic nation is likely going to get the proceeds from the gas it takes to deliver it anyhow. That's just part of being in the world.<BR/><BR/>To clear up any possible confusion about my previous remarks; I think that it's fine that people choose a bible because they like the cover etc. I have several bibles that I chose for that very reason. It's one thing to market a bible to show it's quality of manufacture and make them attractive and nice to have. It's another to market your product to promote false religion (The Green Bible) or to pander to worldliness (biblezines).Chad V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02478790778245966382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51698601439031557002008-09-16T05:26:00.000-07:002008-09-16T05:26:00.000-07:00I will not send the money God gave me to that corp...<I>I will not send the money God gave me to that corporagogue of Satan.</I><BR/><BR/>hmmm. where will you send your money then? <BR/><BR/>can you buy groceries?<BR/>go to restaurants?<BR/>watch cable tv?<BR/>yada, yada, yada...<BR/><BR/>i have no great love for Zondervan, but i'm pretty sure we could tie just about every place you spend your money back to the prince of this world...David Ruddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12572780147564110421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-45698013936570104382008-09-16T05:24:00.001-07:002008-09-16T05:24:00.001-07:00The cover on Crossway's calfskin leather Journalin...<I>The cover on Crossway's calfskin leather Journaling Bible is what motivated me to buy one, and I love it.</I><BR/><BR/>Hah! I knew we'd find something we agreed on, Phil!David Ruddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12572780147564110421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-3253014473698751762008-09-16T05:24:00.000-07:002008-09-16T05:24:00.000-07:00There is a Pavlov's dog principle here as well. Wh...There is a Pavlov's dog principle here as well. When we harness people's response by marketing techniques through the physical senses, they slowly but surely transfer their responses to those techniques and not the substance of the "product".<BR/><BR/>Astronomers listen for any communication from outer space, and if they heard even one faint sign they would be ecstatic. But we as believers have the full, authoritative, and dynamic communication from the Creator of this universe and we need marketing techniques to draw interest?<BR/><BR/>What's wrong with this picture??Rick Fruehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05879848568892457571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-82759274660611564632008-09-16T00:04:00.000-07:002008-09-16T00:04:00.000-07:00Thanks Phil. I know that you didn't send this to ...Thanks Phil. I know that you didn't send this to get people ROFL, but I laughed very hard and sent the link to others. I'm still laughing. The Green Bible with Green Letter Edition...that's a good one.<BR/><BR/>Noticed that foreword is written by Desmond Tutu and it's in the NRSV - oh yeah...CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-58214436564709264912008-09-15T22:05:00.000-07:002008-09-15T22:05:00.000-07:00I may get in trouble for this, but...I don't care ...I may get in trouble for this, but...<BR/><BR/>I don't care what you think about Mark Driscoll, but he had absolutely nothing to do with Phil's post, and bringing him into this discussion only illuminates the peculiar determination some people have with grinding their own little axes.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00781523237313565560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33895766430292354102008-09-15T21:40:00.000-07:002008-09-15T21:40:00.000-07:00And if you're wondering what your "relevant" Chris...And if you're wondering what your "relevant" Christian message/promo will look like in say 20 years or so, take a peek at these ahem <A HREF="http://www.alittleleaven.com/graveyard_of_relevance/index.html" REL="nofollow">examples...</A><BR/><BR><BR/>Warning: may contain materials embarrassing to people "hip" 20 years ago.mikehoskinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07689468586582130180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-64353257687682419442008-09-15T20:51:00.000-07:002008-09-15T20:51:00.000-07:00Personally, I'm done buying from Zondervan. Anyth...Personally, I'm done buying from Zondervan. Anything they have, I can find better elsewhere, or in the worst case, used. I will not send the money God gave me to that corporagogue of Satan.Dave ....https://www.blogger.com/profile/06340206720526412975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-65789034255390484402008-09-15T20:02:00.000-07:002008-09-15T20:02:00.000-07:00DAC - "organized" might be a stretch in an emergen...DAC - "organized" might be a stretch in an emergent context... humanly speaking anyway. On the "crime" end, how about his preaching, writing, and other public statements as compared to the biblical role of a pastor? Maybe it won't land him in jail, but if Paul said "Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel", there's good reason to think those who abuse the position will be held accountable.Randy Talleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09442598590753709382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-78372121662766484252008-09-15T19:53:00.000-07:002008-09-15T19:53:00.000-07:00Well, while not defending Zondervan and their mark...Well, while not defending Zondervan and their marketing tactics, I have to admit that being a girl, I really like my new handy-sized mint green ESV. Is that wrong?MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02606649590300689405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-82613907028692503992008-09-15T16:59:00.000-07:002008-09-15T16:59:00.000-07:00ChadAnd where in the whole of scripture is it ever...Chad<BR/><BR/><I>And where in the whole of scripture is it ever taught that preaching should be more interesting?</I>David A. Carlsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00465387359523299616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-65879098790562580442008-09-15T16:56:00.000-07:002008-09-15T16:56:00.000-07:00Saying things like the book of Genesis is the quin...Saying things like the book of Genesis is the quintessential redneck trailer trash story is not an object lesson. It's just idiotic and unworthy of the preaching of the word of God.Chad V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02478790778245966382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-59143366933941078582008-09-15T16:54:00.000-07:002008-09-15T16:54:00.000-07:00dacWhere did you ever get the idea that I thought ...<B> dac</B><BR/><BR/>Where did you ever get the idea that I thought that teaching through object lessons was bad? How could you possibly infer that from anything I've ever said anywhere on any blog?Chad V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02478790778245966382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-4452448182194783692008-09-15T16:36:00.000-07:002008-09-15T16:36:00.000-07:00I love this thread - Randy - "Driscoll...appears t...I love this thread - <BR/><BR/>Randy - "Driscoll...appears to be a racket". Nice use of "appears". Now that you have accused a pastor of being engaged in some type of organized crime, do you have any evidence? <BR/><BR/>Paul W - while restricting bibles to "basic bonded leather" is certainly your choice (and better than restricting it to the KJV), what do you think that Phil's decision to purchase the Crossway's calfskin leather journal? He did say "the cover...is what motivated me to buy one". <BR/><BR/>Chad V - so, all those of examples in the bible of people teaching others through, say object lessons, is in fact not a permissible way to teach the truths of the bible today? Only words hold any value to us, not methods used?David A. Carlsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00465387359523299616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-64926539955743833412008-09-15T16:13:00.000-07:002008-09-15T16:13:00.000-07:00Oddly enough, it is precisely the need to be const...Oddly enough, it is precisely the need to be constantly entertained that drives things like biblezines and Green Bibles. There is a severe lack of thirst for righteousness so the companies fill the bellies of the people with what they're hungry for, the world and innovation.Chad V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02478790778245966382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-81957099253644865572008-09-15T16:02:00.000-07:002008-09-15T16:02:00.000-07:00There is nothing dull about scripture properly pre...There is nothing dull about scripture properly preached. And where in the whole of scripture is it ever taught that preaching should be more interesting? (c.f. 1Cor 2:1-5)<BR/><BR/>If it needs to be jazzed up then the flesh is the only thing being satisfied. Only the infantile and perpetually adolescent need to be constantly entertained. And pandering to such as that will never cause growth in godliness and knowledge of Christ.Chad V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02478790778245966382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-69315712313777618022008-09-15T15:00:00.000-07:002008-09-15T15:00:00.000-07:00One other thing.The other dimension of Driscoll's ...One other thing.<BR/><BR/>The other dimension of Driscoll's comment is that he wants to "bring a breath of comedy and hipness to what can be an otherwise dull religious discussion." There's more to that than just acting in a way that comes naturally to you--there he's starting to seek the world's approval. Or... He's at least in danger of it.<BR/><BR/>That sentiment could maybe be ok... If he means something like this: Religious discussion has been unnecessarily dull, so why not change that?Jugulumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09932658890162312549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-70172227293988923622008-09-15T14:50:00.000-07:002008-09-15T14:50:00.000-07:00Chad,"The fact that they are not hip and Driscoll ...Chad,<BR/><BR/>"The fact that they are not hip and Driscoll is does not validate Driscoll and invalidate Zondervon."<BR/><BR/>Well... It does matter. If a minister puts on a show of acting "hip" in order to be liked by the world, that's one thing; if he acts in a way that comes naturally to him, that's another. If he's putting on a show, then there's a problem even if there's nothing intrinsically wrong with how he's acting.<BR/><BR/>So... It's not abundantly clear to me that "hip" means "worldly". I don't know why "The fact that you consider Driscoll hip in the first place is a very bad sign," as you say. That's only true if there's something intrinsically wrong with his hip-ness.<BR/><BR/>Where do you see the problem in "hip"? If you see the problem in "seeking after the world's approval", I agree. But I doubt that's what dan meant by "hip".Jugulumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09932658890162312549noreply@blogger.com