tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post1604840284112015315..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Religion and politicsPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger111125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-35072111461886447102007-11-30T11:57:00.000-08:002007-11-30T11:57:00.000-08:00"I think it's possible for a candidate to mean tha..."I think it's possible for a candidate to mean that his personal religion (private) will not override his commitment to the "civil religion" that is common to our social enterprise. Politics is about compromise; religion usually is not. It's a tension the framers tried to find a balance for. When the two realms clash, a politician who represents people of all religions (including no religion) can pledge that he will resolve the conflict via the principles of the "civil religiion" only."<BR/><BR/>I think this is a "wolf in sheeps clothing" type of argument. It racks right up there with the Priest and the Levite who walked right on by battered and bruised Jew. They too chose to do the "civil" thing instead of the "right" thing and what condemnation did they get? Certainly not an "I understand your POV" from the Lord -- no, not in the least. They were pointed out as religious hypocrites for "knowing" the truth, but failing to live by it.<BR/><BR/>There is no shadow or turning with Him and we are called to imitate His character. Therefore there can be no shadow within us -- we are either who we say we are and stand by what we believe or we are as Dan says "a liar, a hypocrite, or a fool."Carol Hepburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00591908619651007329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-78306695728357709902007-11-29T11:36:00.000-08:002007-11-29T11:36:00.000-08:00The 2 Cor 6 reference was to point out Huckabee sh...The 2 Cor 6 reference was to point out Huckabee should be careful who he is associating with or calling friend.David Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17709270641017787218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-24027612417456976822007-11-29T11:25:00.000-08:002007-11-29T11:25:00.000-08:00Right, I definitely hear you. Really, I was just r...Right, I definitely hear you. Really, I was just reacting to your quotation of 2Cor 6, because it would seem to me that if you were saying that we should "Come out from them and be separate," there'd be no Christians running for political office. <BR/><BR/>While that really sounds good at first (because I don't think we need to go nuts about how this fallen world system governs itself), I'm wondering if evangelicals got serious and started running for office but didn't compromise, and endured some embarrassing results for a while, if that wouldn't be a greater witness. And no, we're not ushering in the kingdom, and so it doesn't matter if all we can do is clean the outside of the cup, but I think the country would be in a lot better shape, even if there were a ton of Pharisees and only a few out-and-out pagans. For example, we might stop killing babies and invasively harvesting embryos and we might even uphold the sanctity of marriage.<BR/><BR/>But again, outside of the cup. I don't know. I'm rambling now. This discussion of politics is extremely interesting. But I don't know if I wanna say that every professing Christian who runs for office is automatically disqualified from the faith, simply because he didn't come out from them and be separate. In that case, in the words of the same author, "you would have to leave the world."Mike Riccardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06748453197783538367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-41706864471480412582007-11-29T11:09:00.000-08:002007-11-29T11:09:00.000-08:00Only God and said politician know. But, can you th...Only God and said politician know. But, can you think of even one politician who you would look to for biblical, godly counsel, or advice?<BR/><BR/>Try and imagine John MacArthur running for office, hmm, I can't... I just can't picture it.David Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17709270641017787218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-59438171826227551022007-11-29T11:02:00.000-08:002007-11-29T11:02:00.000-08:00I hear you... and I probably agree with you more t...I hear you... and I probably agree with you more than you think. Certainly about things not getting better, and us not being able to restore things.<BR/><BR/>So then, can we conclude that any professing Christian in politics is either compromising or is not a true Christian?Mike Riccardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06748453197783538367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-39978082901522649822007-11-29T08:46:00.000-08:002007-11-29T08:46:00.000-08:00Dan is exactly right.I believe our current system ...Dan is exactly right.<BR/><BR/>I believe our current system of politics (and I don't see it getting better) will not allow for a non-compromising Christian to be elected. <BR/><BR/>The bible is clear things are not going to get better in this world. There will be no ushering in "the kingdom" here without the return of Christ and the erradication of sin.<BR/><BR/>We, as Christians (yes Christians!) need to learn how to keep this country's social and political problems/issues in perspective to the Gospel and our responsibility to it.<BR/><BR/>For those who want the Gospel defined see the Holy Bible, maybe start in Romans.David Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17709270641017787218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-30976091741761400712007-11-29T07:44:00.000-08:002007-11-29T07:44:00.000-08:00Do you think, then, that any Christian can be an A...Do you think, then, that any Christian can be an American politician without compromising? <BR/><BR/>Because I think that Dan was right. He'd most definitely not got elected for anything, or he'd be shot.Mike Riccardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06748453197783538367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-25054678419137628592007-11-29T06:58:00.000-08:002007-11-29T06:58:00.000-08:00-mike riccardiI do not think Christians should be ...-mike riccardi<BR/><BR/>I do not think Christians should be politicians at the expense of compromising what should be their first duty to God. If someone can be a good politician and use that as a vehicle to take the Gospel to the world, then go for it! The problem arises when someone decides to only compromise the “little things” to get to the office so they can accomplish some “greater good”.<BR/><BR/>Paul said it best when he reminded Timothy how to keep his priorities straight…<BR/><BR/>No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. ~2 Timothy 2:4David Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17709270641017787218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-36099305528239316732007-11-29T06:09:00.000-08:002007-11-29T06:09:00.000-08:00Oh... I mean like running for office. Should Chris...Oh... I mean like running for office. Should Christians be politicians?Mike Riccardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06748453197783538367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-41030308956894155602007-11-29T05:50:00.000-08:002007-11-29T05:50:00.000-08:00-Mike RiccardiNot to sound emergent, but how do yo...-Mike Riccardi<BR/><BR/>Not to sound emergent, but how do you define involved?<BR/><BR/>I will vote, as it is a duty of any citizen of the USA, and that will be the extent of my involvement.David Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17709270641017787218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-14633878653370924182007-11-28T18:21:00.000-08:002007-11-28T18:21:00.000-08:00I'm not voting for any of the current choices. I'm...I'm not voting for any of the current choices. I'm actually writing in a candidate. It doesn't matter that they have no chance of winning, it matters that I don't vote for an evil person to take control of the most powerful political office in the country. I don't agree with 'strategy' voting, where you vote for someone you don't trust in order to prevent someone else from winning. Christians aren't called to be successful, we're called to be faithful.nopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06507834449285501803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-21274631438503670192007-11-28T16:02:00.000-08:002007-11-28T16:02:00.000-08:00dkyle,Was that a yes or a no?dkyle,<BR/><BR/>Was that a yes or a no?Mike Riccardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06748453197783538367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-22549062050859324512007-11-28T14:57:00.000-08:002007-11-28T14:57:00.000-08:00SolaMeanie said... I knew I'd get to make a Gen...SolaMeanie said...<BR/><BR/> I knew I'd get to make a Genesis (band) link to Dan "Jael" Phillips before long. Now I've got one, and it's a great song.<BR/><BR/> "Driving the Last Spike"<BR/><BR/>_____________________________<BR/><BR/>You know, I hope this isn't bad when I say that I am rather proud that my odd, even disturbed little Calvinist brain thought up some thing like "driving a tent spike into the temple" to mean someone made a good point.<BR/><BR/>That's probably too violent for most politicians I imagineS.J. Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15922550763548455625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-90996098329209212192007-11-28T11:46:00.000-08:002007-11-28T11:46:00.000-08:00I apologize to all for being a bit long-winded and...I apologize to all for being a bit long-winded and straying from the topic.David Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17709270641017787218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33338920543907882452007-11-28T11:39:00.000-08:002007-11-28T11:39:00.000-08:00mike riccardi-graceFirst let me say that I am not ...mike riccardi<BR/>-grace<BR/><BR/>First let me say that I am not looking for a candidate who must meet the qualifications of the Apostle Paul, and as an American I always have the option of writing someone’s name in who was not chosen for us by some political party.<BR/><BR/>I concluded a long time ago that God’s sovereignty extends (and it should for Christians) even into the voting booth. I will not vote for someone in a right leaning party simply because they can beat out some other candidate from a left leaning party. <BR/><BR/>Every decision I make is accountable to God and to God alone. I also take into consideration that this world is no longer my home and I refuse to become entangled in its politics, or take up its causes.<BR/><BR/>I have also learned that we, as Christians, are not going to bring in some utopian kingdom where there are no abortions and every school begins class with prayer by pulling a lever, marking an x, or punching a chad.<BR/><BR/>This election cycle, as in others, my focus is taking the Gospel to the lost. I shudder to think what I might face if my Master should return and find me working for someone else. <BR/><BR/>Maybe this sounds “un-American”, but I may not even vote. I just retired from 26 years in the Army and I believe I have earned (if it be possible) the right to say no candidate offered meets the criteria for the job.David Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17709270641017787218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-78138653898154369312007-11-28T11:24:00.000-08:002007-11-28T11:24:00.000-08:00I thought we'd settled this.Phil Johnson.I thought we'd settled this.<BR/><BR/>Phil Johnson.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80706545831317306302007-11-28T11:07:00.000-08:002007-11-28T11:07:00.000-08:00dkyle-According to what I've read, Romney is a Mor...dkyle-<BR/>According to what I've read, Romney is a Mormon who was pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage, Giuliani is pro-abortion, McCain has called evangelical leaders "agents of intolerance", and Ron Paul has been endorsed by the owner of a bordello. Tancredo and Hunter are polling below the levels of electability.<BR/><BR/>So who are you going to vote for? I guess I'm weird, but I don't see Copeland as that important in light of these facts.goasktheplatypushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13195678417356429799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-64687575167930985052007-11-28T11:06:00.000-08:002007-11-28T11:06:00.000-08:00dkyle,So do you think Christians shouldn't get inv...dkyle,<BR/><BR/>So do you think Christians shouldn't get involved in politics, then?Mike Riccardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06748453197783538367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-31089766675982259612007-11-28T10:31:00.000-08:002007-11-28T10:31:00.000-08:00-djpI read the post you linked to for me and it hi...-djp<BR/><BR/>I read the post you linked to for me and it hits the nail on the head. In it you mentioned the time Huckabee called Brownback (a catholic) a “Christian brother,” and said, “As believers, we don’t have time to fight each other.”<BR/><BR/>I believe it is an attempt on Huckabee’s part to say look, we need to separate our religion from politics. Believers need to wake up to the fact that, when we try to say our Christianity should be kept separate from… (fill in the blank), we begin to compromise the Gospel and the commission to take it into all the world.<BR/><BR/>Scripture is so very clear about how “religion” should, or shouldn’t affect our worldview. Mike Huckabee should read and meditate on Paul writing to the Corinthians…<BR/><BR/><EM>Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them ; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing ; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. <B>~2 Corinthians 6:14-18</B></EM><BR/><BR/>Maybe if Mr. Huckabee would spend some time chewing on that, he would reevaluate his friendship with the servants of BelialDavid Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17709270641017787218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-5316378086051881112007-11-28T10:15:00.000-08:002007-11-28T10:15:00.000-08:00-graceYou said "The Copelands are definitely messe...-grace<BR/><BR/>You said "The Copelands are definitely messed up, theologically and in many other ways. But Huckabee defending them does not mean he approves of their ministry."<BR/><BR/>If Huckabee is defending their ministry, doesn't that mean he approves of it? This post was about whether or not someone can disassociate their religion from their politics. What sort of religion does Copeland represent and will Huckabee be bringing it, or the influence behind it, to the office of President.<BR/><BR/>Time and the Word of God has proven Copeland (and cohorts) to be false teachers of the worst caliber and no Christian should seek any friendship with them.<BR/><BR/>The idea that Huckabee, or anyone, could support the kind of ministry Copeland has and not carry over the obvious lack of discernment, or honesty (whichever the case may be) into the public office, is ridiculous.<BR/><BR/>Mike Huckabee’s judgment is in serious doubt.David Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17709270641017787218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-53103209284706426262007-11-28T09:54:00.000-08:002007-11-28T09:54:00.000-08:00Fox News just reported that Falwell, Jr. is suppor...Fox News just reported that Falwell, Jr. is supporting Huckabee.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-10027091973737394012007-11-28T09:39:00.000-08:002007-11-28T09:39:00.000-08:00On a slightly different take, why do you suppose t...On a slightly different take, why do you suppose the media wants to hull breach Huckabee's campaign this early? Fear of uniting the evangelical base?<BR/><BR/>This will make fodder in the future on several fronts. Do you suppose the media set him up?<BR/><BR/>By the way Grace, I lean toward Huck because I have an acquaintance by that name, his name is Mike too, he's just lacking the ster, scratch that, abee. Not very deep political discernment I know, but he, when you don't have a homeboy yet, ya got to grasp what ya can.<BR/><BR/>By the way wasn't Abee the name of that brain in....Strong Towerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13834108238546908018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-53271266692509122072007-11-28T09:30:00.000-08:002007-11-28T09:30:00.000-08:00Solameanie,Thank you. That's what I was trying to ...Solameanie,<BR/><BR/>Thank you. That's what I was trying to say about those quotes in the articles.<BR/><BR/>And while I agree that I wouldn't want to be associated with Copeland either, I think he could do a lot worse.goasktheplatypushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13195678417356429799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-5237115892502828402007-11-28T09:28:00.000-08:002007-11-28T09:28:00.000-08:00Grace you're posed to be at work."have operated wi...Grace you're posed to be at work.<BR/><BR/>"have operated with the utmost integrity as far as I know."<BR/><BR/>Huck doesn't realize that they are hucksters by default? Their whole ministry is a sham, and they know it, why doesn't Huck? I can understand if he got caught off guard, but little bit of sense would have kept him from falling into the pit of his own tongue's diggin's. Would it not have been better just to defer comment instead of committing himself to their integrity? "A fool speaks before he has heard the end of the matter," and if Huck doesn't have a clue as to their perverted use of Scripture employed in their get rich quick pyramidal theology, he would have been best served by remaining silent and being counted as wise, don't you think?Strong Towerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13834108238546908018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-59387404243960911122007-11-28T09:25:00.000-08:002007-11-28T09:25:00.000-08:00As to the Huckabee thing, I did receive an email f...As to the Huckabee thing, I did receive an email from his campaign after I expressed concern about the Copeland business. In essence, it was that the Copelands are long time friends of Huckabee's, they disagree on theology, and he doesn't believe Copeland is guilty of financial wrongdoing, but if he proves to be, then he will have to bear the consequences. <BR/><BR/>Pretty much the response one would expect in politics. I personally wouldn't be found within a light year of Copeland. However if the choice came down to Huckabee or Hillzilla, I would have to choose Huckabee.Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.com