tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post1618142577181367586..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Village IdiotsPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-64268681849047684972010-01-18T17:48:13.241-08:002010-01-18T17:48:13.241-08:00I wonder what the next thing is? I believe we hav...I wonder what the next thing is? I believe we have witnessed many different steps leading to the next step. I began to pay attention when I noticed the "seeker friendly" thing that morphed into distaste for itself. People then began to get emergent. Then there was (and still is) the contemplative/disciplines thing. These things seemt to coexist in one church at times, but individual churches can have each flavor. Some more conservativish churches step into emergent but not completely. Liberal churches go into acceptance of all things politically correct. Some are smiling with seeker friendly fluffy puffs. Suddenly, realizing they are fluffy puffs, they bring in some rhetoric to make their congregation feel guilty for going with the fad. Next comes the serious deeper prayer and self denial. What will come next? I am scared for people out there not paying attention...and trust me, it took a while for me to see it all around.<br /><br />Blessings!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-92223628546448038722010-01-13T02:39:21.853-08:002010-01-13T02:39:21.853-08:00I have the distinct feeling that the ideas and her...I have the distinct feeling that the ideas and heresies will be much more dangerous due to the lack of a organized target and catch all label. The organized element will now coalesce more distinctly around personalities than "doctrines" or lack thereof.<br /><br />The death of the label "emergent" will also seen by many as proof of the wolf cry essence of discerners. It would be hard to imagine evangelicalism any more ambivalent than is presently enjoyed, but who could have imagined the emergent movement either?<br /><br />The ride has just become more dangerous even though it continues to become more smoothe.Rick Fruehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05879848568892457571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-82183095537167026022010-01-12T18:03:33.805-08:002010-01-12T18:03:33.805-08:00If they respond to Phil's post over at the EV ...If they respond to Phil's post over at the EV and other emergo-blogs, I can feel one final Pomotivational poster coming on...<br /><br />TENACITY <br /><br />(With the dead horse picture)<br /><br />Caption: We'll keep going: the "deceased equine" concept is such an obsolete, traditionalist method of analysis...Hanani Hindsfeethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10738421801845332155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-21087505303972339852010-01-12T08:56:35.814-08:002010-01-12T08:56:35.814-08:00I think Mike makes a good point. The damage to Chr...I think Mike makes a good point. The damage to Christianity done by the EV has only just begun because of all the books and videos that franchised Christian Bookstores carry. Places like B&N and Borders will continue to carry these books as well. These books questioning and twisting Christianity will be sold for years to come whereas we will probably be focused on other subjects. Even here it was stated that we haven't said much about EV because it is falling apart on it's own, but those books and curriculum are still on shelves everywhere!<br />It is discouraging as a Youth Pastor to see a) the theological garbage of some curriculum and b) the inability or unwillingness of youth pastors to be clear and discerning in what they present to the young. Millstones....corinthianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04293112967021601728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-73910072780133701412010-01-12T07:37:52.120-08:002010-01-12T07:37:52.120-08:00stratagem, sadly that is too true.stratagem, sadly that is too true.Sir Brasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01893578064434019702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-71315458070371737602010-01-12T05:21:19.581-08:002010-01-12T05:21:19.581-08:00Yes, we must learn from the lessons of history abo...Yes, we must learn from the lessons of history about declaring victory too soon:<br /><a href="http://www.historycommons.org/events-images/b027_bush_mission_accomplished_2050081722-7750.jpg" rel="nofollow">Mission Accomplished</a> <br /><br />It was a cheap shot, but aside from its overuse, perfectly fitting to the situation.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-81992415284378181412010-01-12T00:00:18.039-08:002010-01-12T00:00:18.039-08:00JR,
Dirka dirka kumbayah?
Phil,
I agree that th...JR,<br /><br />Dirka dirka kumbayah?<br /><br />Phil,<br /><br />I agree that the Emergent movement is now even more dangerous. It is now decentralized and gone guerrilla in the local churches (like Rob Bell's nooma videos which seem to have gone viral within doctrinally-scarce parachurches and youth groups). Just like in actual warfare, if the organized opposition goes to ground and starts fighting guerilla against you, then your job just got a WHOLE lot harder (despite the outward appearance of victory).Sir Brasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01893578064434019702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-18472977206449888832010-01-11T22:42:19.543-08:002010-01-11T22:42:19.543-08:00Phil/All:
IMO, some the most comprehensive resear...Phil/All:<br /><br />IMO, some the most comprehensive research, scrutiny and biblical response to the Emergent movement has, and is being done by Robert Congdon. For example I draw your attention to a brief two-part series he published titled,<br /><br /><a href="http://www.internetbibleinstitute.com/library/Emergent_Art_Pt-1.htm" rel="nofollow"><i><b>Christian And Emergent: Can You Be Both</b></i>?</a><br /><br />For example,<br /><br />“<i>Today, a spiritual ‘Trojan horse’ is seeking to enter Bible-believing churches. Once inside, spiritual defeat is inevitable. People’s susceptibility is their uneasiness about the future of their church. They are aware of declining attendance, fewer being saved, fewer young people in the churches, and fewer going to the mission field. Put simply, there is a growing awareness of spiritual defeat. Today’s Emergent Church movement offers a solution to churches; but is it of God or man?<br /><br />Paul’s last words to his protégé, Timothy, and to us, provide the answer to this question. In 2 Timothy 3:1-5 Paul declares that ‘…in the last days’ of the Church Age, the church will witness and experience critical times involving peril or danger. That danger will be a counterfeit religious movement within the churches, having a ‘form of godliness’ similar to genuine Christianity, ‘but denying the power thereof’ (vs.5).</i>”<br /><br />Hope you and your guests find this helpful.<br /><br /><br />LM<br /><br />PS: I wholeheartedly agree with Solameanie who wrote, “<i>The Borg would perhaps be the best one. It adapts. It morphs. It assimilates. And that's exactly what the EC will do now. It's not going away. It's just morphing into the next disguise or form.</i>”Lou Martuneachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-61447211733751450882010-01-11T19:28:14.618-08:002010-01-11T19:28:14.618-08:00"The Borg would perhaps be the best one. It a..."The Borg would perhaps be the best one. It adapts. It morphs. It assimilates. <br /><br />And that's exactly what the EC will do now. It's not going away. It's just morphing into the next disguise or form."<br /><br />Precisely.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15467355851070391084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-10174629283757970502010-01-11T15:12:28.025-08:002010-01-11T15:12:28.025-08:00Strategem, you had me almost spewing water on my c...Strategem, you had me almost spewing water on my computer with that last sally. Hilarious. <br /><br />Phil, I remember the artwork you linked once showing Brian McLaren in an Alice-in-Wonderland-type setting. I think it's time for a new piece showing the Emergent movement as the Borg, or perhaps the Salt Vampire from the old Star-Trek series, which could morph into anything. The Borg would perhaps be the best one. It adapts. It morphs. It assimilates. And that's exactly what the EC will do now. It's not going away. It's just morphing into the next disguise or form.Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33421496155529081082010-01-11T14:28:27.920-08:002010-01-11T14:28:27.920-08:00Great post. I agree that the emergent movement (t...Great post. I agree that the emergent movement (thank the Lord) is fading though some churches are bent on copying "the conversation" started. How we need a return to the Bible and not a return to the postmodernism found at EV or any other emergent site.The Seeking Disciplehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850752852586928341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51073795030757877052010-01-11T14:20:08.700-08:002010-01-11T14:20:08.700-08:00I just went to the local Christian bookstore while...I just went to the local Christian bookstore while waiting for my car to finish the oil change and wash. It was very discouraging.<br /><br />An older man came in looking for "effective youth materials." The clerk promptly recommended Rob Bell's stuff, saying that at her church they've "worked really well" with the kids.Mike Riccardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06748453197783538367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-91873746706447049072010-01-11T13:01:42.509-08:002010-01-11T13:01:42.509-08:00Hi Phil,
You mentioned the Origins network -and ...Hi Phil, <br /><br />You mentioned the Origins network -and we did announce it at Catalyst West Coast last April. Since then we have had some meetings and and we have putting time into thinking through what specifically it will be. It was birthed to be focusing on evangelism and mission. That is why I got into the original emerging church discussion - it was a passion to see the next generation reached with the gospel of Jesus. <br /><br />We chose the Lausanne Covenant http://www.lausanne.org/covenant as it is written globally and focused on mission and from the start want to lay out doctrine so there is no confusion or mystery about doctrinal beliefs. <br /><br />We have had several podcasts this past year and we launched a web site. So we are only the in early stages. Our first major event is in July 22-24, 2010 in Pasadena. Catalyst West Coast also has an "Origins" tract that will be part of the event in April in Southern California. <br /><br />Anyway, thought I would give a quick update since you raised it up in this post. And if you ever (or anyone else) has questions about this or anything I personally teach or believe, be sure to just directly ask me and not speculate so no confusion or misunderstanding happens, as has happened in the past here. My email is dan@vintagefaith.com and I would happy to directly answer any questions about anything about Origins or about theology or questions you have about this. <br /><br />Thank you! Hope we get to meet up sometime. <br /><br />DanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-60899845105473185062010-01-11T12:59:04.001-08:002010-01-11T12:59:04.001-08:00I think I last saw him in a Green Acres re-run. Oh...I think I last saw him in a Green Acres re-run. Oh, sorry, that was Hank Kimball - my bad!Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51951500019180675292010-01-11T12:42:16.934-08:002010-01-11T12:42:16.934-08:00The 'emergents' are just 'fundies'...The 'emergents' are just 'fundies' who have taken their <em>pietism</em> to its logical conclusion. Just see George Marsden's <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentalism-American-Culture-George-Marsden/dp/0195300475/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263242263&sr=1-1" rel="nofollow">Fundamentalism and American Culture</a></em> for more historical context. <br /><br />I'm glad to see that Dan Kimball has backed away from EV; he's a fellow alum from Multnomah (although before my time). Although it sounds like he is still into the emergent church (whatever that means anymore), does anyone know where Dan is at?Bobby Growhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06831009618873548948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-56664812766206247422010-01-11T11:13:08.802-08:002010-01-11T11:13:08.802-08:00The failure of the web site isn't a great indi...The failure of the web site isn't a great indicator. A falling away of many who are not truly Christian isn't a bad thing, and I certainly hope it's true that they aren't holding out in some other way.<br /><br />But there may be something more generally instructive for our local churches. While truth never changes, ministry often does. I've seen plenty of ministries die with some people wondering why other people didn't stay faithful to the ministry. We must understand that ministries have lifespans. The end of a ministry must be considered from the beginning where new ministries may come in afterward to do the next work. I've seen churches fail because they stagnated ministerially. Some ministries are long-term. Others are rather short term. All must work together to fulfill God's purposes.<br /><br />When they aren't particularly faithful to God, let's hope they die quickly like this one, putting us out of their misery.Jim Pembertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01446388434272680014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-62236165435084397632010-01-11T11:04:46.622-08:002010-01-11T11:04:46.622-08:00Causes me to wonder if Kluck and DeYoung's sem...Causes me to wonder if Kluck and DeYoung's seminal work may have had an impact.William Fawcetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12290191440276275451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-70214547043984077192010-01-11T10:18:49.051-08:002010-01-11T10:18:49.051-08:00"and start a network using the Lausanne Coven..."and start a network using the Lausanne Covenant"<br /><br />And I think Erwin McManus is involved in this as well.<br /><br />Seems the EMC people who truly regard the Bible as a precious treasure from God will be lead away from those who have a low regard for the Bibel, such as McLaren, Bell, and Pagitt.<br /><br />The Word of God seperates the true from the false, even when the false may be loving and kind, etc.<br /><br />Thanks for the good post. God wants us to hear the truth, speak the truth, and know the truth, so we can be set free from all the many winds of twister doctrines blowing in the world, and Church today.donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-67001324002977776302010-01-11T10:17:32.079-08:002010-01-11T10:17:32.079-08:00Believe it or not, the Irish recently passed a law...Believe it or not, the Irish recently passed a law specifically to do away with Bono's ability to avoid royalty taxes by going off to Amsterdam. I don't think that has anything to do with Emergent Village, but it is at least tangentially connected to the subject of Idiots.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-63012256510966142852010-01-11T09:38:26.677-08:002010-01-11T09:38:26.677-08:00Well U2 better hurry up and make the CD before Lie...Well U2 better hurry up and make the CD before Lieberman sends some high explosives their way! :PAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09648159378532573705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-2632624625159328272010-01-11T09:35:45.039-08:002010-01-11T09:35:45.039-08:00You mean Yemen is a tax haven? :-)
Perhaps the mo...You mean Yemen is a tax haven? :-)<br /><br /><i>Perhaps the most unscrupulous tax-dodger in recent years is the self-styled Saviour of the Universe™ – Bono (and his band members from U2). In one of the most galling displays of hypocrisy in the history of mankind the Nobel Peace Prize nominee and his band moved their music publishing company from Ireland to The Netherlands in 2006. Impelled by a change in Irish taxation by which the previous artists’ tax exemption was to be capped at around £170,000 ($330,000), Time Magazine’s Person of the Year 2005 decided on a swift move to the musician’s tax-haven of The Netherlands to make the most of the country’s enticing 1.5% royalty tax.<br /><br />All in a days work for one of the world’s most lucrative bands and a widely celebrated champion of the poor and downtrodden. You may remember Bono pleading for the people of the rich world to donate money to help the poor and for the governments to donate more of their taxpayers’ money in the name of global aid – obviously Bono and his band are exempt from such matters</i>.<br />source:www.knowyourmoney.co.ukNash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-49749394886509755302010-01-11T08:50:57.136-08:002010-01-11T08:50:57.136-08:00"Thriving in Yemen" ought to be the titl..."Thriving in Yemen" ought to be the title of an epic U2 CD.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-20435318499191314382010-01-11T08:26:19.528-08:002010-01-11T08:26:19.528-08:00They have become like Al-Qaeda: decentralized.
I ...They have become like Al-Qaeda: decentralized.<br /><br />I hear EV is thriving in Yemen.JRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12092156388367076715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-10800696803361829342010-01-11T07:42:58.519-08:002010-01-11T07:42:58.519-08:00Phil,
What's your assessment of Rob Bell'...Phil,<br /><br />What's your assessment of Rob Bell's influence at the present? <br /><br />Do you think his influence has waned any?CHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15390988470152416157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-38938646795376065342010-01-11T07:17:54.424-08:002010-01-11T07:17:54.424-08:00Brad
In rural Ohio, the effect seems minimal too -...Brad<br />In rural Ohio, the effect seems minimal too - except among pastors. They (esp. of the recent-seminary-grad or iwannabigchurch ilk) seem to be the ones who are most likely to be drawn to this stuff from what I've seen. And then the dandelion seed effect kicks in among those they lead. A lot of time this way of thinking incubates in a less than obvious way, so it might be closer at hand than you think. That's been my experience, anyway.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.com