tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post163210611209284482..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: The Neo-Liberal Stealth OffensivePhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-88987857512476304882011-04-17T20:37:42.200-07:002011-04-17T20:37:42.200-07:00"Stealth offensive" is a very apt descri..."Stealth offensive" is a very apt description! Upon questioning a neo-liberal on his theology he declared himself a "minimalist" when it comes to theology. He spoke of an "elegance in thought" like a physicist and that "less is more." <br /><br />Just like listening to Phillip Glass, I want to beat my head against a wall :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-47000897275288301852011-04-14T19:53:13.410-07:002011-04-14T19:53:13.410-07:00Number 4 is the real kicker. You can generally get...Number 4 is the real kicker. You can generally get a good feel for a teacher/preacher based on how willing he is to articulate his teachings. There have been many a professing Reformed teacher who either cannot or will not define the key doctrines of the Reformation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-5340813348195671072011-04-13T12:04:00.847-07:002011-04-13T12:04:00.847-07:00"unity and harmony cannot exist in the church..."unity and harmony cannot exist in the church at all if there is not a common commitment to sound doctrine."<br /><br />Interesting how the liberal church compromises doctrine specifically because they say that there is no other way to obtain unity and harmony; the very things they are destroying in the process.ABurkholzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01478942767711159358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-49037876245679346492011-04-13T08:44:38.987-07:002011-04-13T08:44:38.987-07:00At first, I was appalled at the thought of Brian M...At first, I was appalled at the thought of Brian McLaren singing "Good Morning Starshine," especially when you get to the "gliddy gloop gloopy, libby lobby looby" part. But on reflection, that pretty much sums up McLaren's theology, doesn't it?Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-21806174901983272332011-04-12T12:37:58.128-07:002011-04-12T12:37:58.128-07:00Thank you everyone for the help.
Some solid conta...Thank you everyone for the help. <br />Some solid contacts there Thomas, thanks. <br /><br />Thank you so much Phil!Johanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06611714920584838159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-48638865317034697972011-04-12T11:57:02.547-07:002011-04-12T11:57:02.547-07:00Halycon -
Corrosive - exactly the right word! As...Halycon - <br />Corrosive - exactly the right word! As I told of few of the profs at the seminary I teach occasionally before they fire me again and again, is that rather then embrace this stuff - if you really understand it you would see that it undermines the entire education project - in any field.<br />So the professors saw off the branches they sit on - nice...<br />And the emergents have showed in less then ten years how much they despise the Lord who sustains, teaches, and now will rebuke them!Bill Honsbergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04836300411894206079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-17936837747771608452011-04-12T11:00:40.914-07:002011-04-12T11:00:40.914-07:00Bill:
"I remember some alleged Christian wri...<b>Bill:</b><br /><br />"<i>I remember some alleged Christian writing about how postmodernism meant community and I just laughed trying to imagine Derrida or Foucault writing like that.</i>"<br /><br />Absolutely, man. I remember in my graduate theory classes, several students (who were actually paying attention) wondered out loud how one could possible have "community" in a worldview as isolationist as post-modernism. Nobody had a good answer, because there is none. The pomo philosophy is not fundamentally communal; it is fundamentally corrosive.<br /><br />Post-modernism = rabid individualism shored up by rabid skepticism.Halcyonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12264274336322086961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-44454465688844451502011-04-12T02:25:30.138-07:002011-04-12T02:25:30.138-07:00We must pay attention to the lessons of history an...<i>We must pay attention to the lessons of history and stand firm on the truth of Scripture—and we desperately need to be more aggressive than we have been so far in opposing these neo-liberal influences.</i><br /><br />Phil, your post today is a great description of the "why" of this last paragraph. Now, I would like to find "how" to take action in practical ways for lay people such as myself to do what you suggested .<br /><br />However, I'm thankful to God that I'm a member of a church where Biblical truth is treasured, proclaimed and defended.Burrito34https://www.blogger.com/profile/04326575419406343733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-62992611650184167062011-04-11T18:04:16.711-07:002011-04-11T18:04:16.711-07:00Another South African with considerable knowledge ...Another South African with considerable knowledge of sound churches is Errol Hulse - www.errolhulse.comTom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-90390945076227414292011-04-11T17:33:48.126-07:002011-04-11T17:33:48.126-07:00@Johan.
If you have taken other avenue's and ...@Johan.<br /><br />If you have taken other avenue's and they have not worked out for you.<br />Google <br />'Grace Fellowship Pretoria".<br />Or check my e-mail on my profile. There is a church in Cape Town founded by a Master Seminary graduate, there is also a few other good churches, like Peter Hammonds church.<br /><br />There more of us than u think. Don't be dishearted brother.Thomas Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08406486510590654502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-66383189982340442662011-04-11T15:09:00.501-07:002011-04-11T15:09:00.501-07:00@Johan: I recommend that you contact Phil, Dan, o...@Johan: I recommend that you contact Phil, Dan, or Frank directly via e-mail. Your situation sounds like it needs to be discussed in private. You may also email me, but I'm not even worthy enough to stand in their shadow.<br /><br />May God bless you and lead you through your present difficulty.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-28219122168225061012011-04-11T14:40:29.124-07:002011-04-11T14:40:29.124-07:00To Johann,
I do recommend Dining with the Devil b...To Johann,<br /><br />I do recommend Dining with the Devil by Os Guinness. If you have access to it give it to your pastor and express your concerns as to relevence. Os does not condemn cutural changes as he states...<br /><br />"...innovation is not a problem. If Christians were to use the best fruits of the managerial revolution constructively and critically, accompanied by a parallel reformation of truth and theology, the potential for the gospel would be incalculable." (pg 24)<br />My wife and I recently re-located after nearly 45 years in the same town and we were completely surprised at the lack of concern for the truth with the emphasis on entertaining and connecting to the audiences felt needs. But be prepared! I sent e-mails to 2 pastors in the recent past requesting some time to meet only to be stone-walled by silence. Seems the best defense is not to respond at all.<br />I encourage you if you have personal access to your pastor than request some time and share your concerns.<br /><br />May God bless your endeavor!Not Ashamedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01229118745427873095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-48805650168978883132011-04-11T14:13:29.976-07:002011-04-11T14:13:29.976-07:00Wow Phil,
This is never said frequently enough, l...Wow Phil,<br /><br />This is never said frequently enough, loud enough or long enough to the right people!<br /><br />In the middle of an excellent read by Os Guinness "Dining with the Devil" and he too nails it...<br /><br />"Without maintaining critical tension, the principle of identification is a recipe for compromise and capitulation. It is no accident that the charge of "being all things to all people" has become a popular synonym for compromise. If the process of "becoming all things to all people" is to remain faithful to Christ, it has to climax in clear persuasion and profound conversion. Joining people where they are is only the first step in the process, not the last. Unless it resists this danger, the megachurch and church-growth movement will prove to be a gigantic excercise in cultural adjustment and surrender" (pg 28)<br /><br />All of us need to address compromise "biblically, lovingly and sternly" not concerning ourselves with what others may think. Our "felt needs" are irrelevant in the face of the Truth of Scripture.<br /><br />I loved this post!<br />To God be the glory!<br />Sola ScripturaNot Ashamedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01229118745427873095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-67319784401077159082011-04-11T13:21:55.453-07:002011-04-11T13:21:55.453-07:00Bill,
I take great encouragement from the movemen...Bill,<br /><br />I take great encouragement from the movements of the Holy Spirit around the world. Thanks for your reminder of this during these otherwise dark times. Perhaps we must always keep this in the back of our minds (and hearts) when thinking about the theological trends in Western Christianity.<br /><br />(To any moderator: as I look, it seems one of my comments was eaten by the spam filter here.)Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12784922935749497931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51927948183219140702011-04-11T12:56:53.213-07:002011-04-11T12:56:53.213-07:00The trick with Kant is that in one sense he was th...The trick with Kant is that in one sense he was the ultimate modernist historically. Once he separated the world of the phenomena from the world of the noumena (simply - history and science are separated from faith) this led immediately and directly to Schliermacher and Kierkegaard dismissal of the Biblical text. Kant's own "Christianity" was virtually devoid of practice - it was said he never once went to chapel at his school and perhaps never at church as well. Nietzsche rightly criticized Kant's faith as Plato on steroids and urged a rejection of Kant's use of "God" to shore up morality - without actually believing anything! And gee Nietzsche is the grandpa of pomo thought. Funny how this all works together. This is why many philosophers see pomo as the death thralls of modernism lingering on. Nothing but layers of skepticism and antagonism against the Biblical view and God himself. So yes I agree Matt that Kant is all over the place here, but I doubt most of the emerging or neo-liberal crowd has actually read him. <br />Most of the early pomo Christian writers such as Grenz and others showed a clear confusion about modernist/enlightenment thinking and thus their commitment to pomo thought was almost as silly as it was shallow. I remember some alleged Christian writing about how postmodernism meant community and I just laughed trying to imagine Derrida or Foucault writing like that.<br />Todays "Christian" leaders - neither understanding the Bible nor the philosophers who attack it! This would be depressing except that I know my Father is still in charge and even though the American Church candle may be extinguished - that great and wonderful things can be seen in China, Korea, Kenya and many other places.Bill Honsbergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04836300411894206079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51966879037742680942011-04-11T11:48:16.995-07:002011-04-11T11:48:16.995-07:00Thanks, Halcyon.
His influence expands to many ot...Thanks, Halcyon.<br /><br />His influence expands to many other areas as well. (I suspect you know all this, but I write this for the benefit of others.) For example, psychology--the study of the self--becomes not an exercise in truly knowing yourself and applying objective correction of behavior, for that would require gaining access to objective reality (and that is impossible), but, rather, a study in what you <i>perceive</i> yourself to be. Therefore, all problems reside in your perception of yourself. Inevitably, this reduces to questions of how events and thoughts make you "feel" and the resulting, overriding concern of "self-esteem" in modern psychological examination.<br /><br />Consider, as well, education. Education becomes not a means by which we improve our objective self in order to better carry out virtuous tasks, but a means by which we correct our perceptions of subjective reality (often through rote repetition). (And it becomes a means of controlling the subjective consensus, since that consensus is the ultimate "reality" by which we can govern society.)<br /><br />And, inasmuch as I understand it, a serious figure in liberal politics, John Rawls, draws on Kantian categories to formulate his equalizing economic policies and to exclude contentious ("thick") conceptions of the good from the public sphere (e.g., religious belief). Hence the liberal tendency to use government to equalize wealth distribution and to exclude any use of the Bible from making public policy.<br /><br />Obviously these are woefully inadequate summaries of the influence Kant has on highly complex subjects, and clearly there has been some extended application and logical development of his ideas since he penned his works. But his influence is so great that philosophers debate not whether to take him seriously, but whether he was the most influential of all philosophers ever. <br /><br />In other words, the benefits of addressing his framework apply to any cultural work Christians might do in any secular liberal context, not just theology and responses to post-modern theology. Kant is one of many philosophers addressing the fundamental issues of life--what will legitimize my beliefs, bring meaning to my existence, establish my morals--and his answer to what legitimizes these issues have been greatly incorporated by modern society. If we want to show the world that the Bible--that God and his Gospel through his son Jesus Christ--should be the great legitimizer of all life, we will need to engage the modern, Kantian influenced framework.Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12784922935749497931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-84379837807935079342011-04-11T11:22:59.069-07:002011-04-11T11:22:59.069-07:00Matthew:
Your analysis was highly impressive, sir...<b>Matthew:</b><br /><br />Your analysis was highly impressive, sir. I have often wonder about Kant's role in modern thought (I knew that he was practically the father of it, but I didn't know how). The objectification of subjectivity is the hallmark of modern/post-modern/post-post-modern thought, and Kant (amongst others, I'm sure) is culpable.<br /><br />Anyway, you have encouraged me to read more Roger Scruton, so thanks. 8^DHalcyonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12264274336322086961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-92096202977854318342011-04-11T11:18:19.656-07:002011-04-11T11:18:19.656-07:00Thank you very much for this article.
Im from Cape...Thank you very much for this article.<br />Im from Cape Town South Africa and this is busy happening in my church, we got a new pastor. Im not sure what to do at the moment because most churches around seem to be like this, and I seriously want to have strong real fellowship. Can anbyone please give advice on whether I should approach my pastor abouth this, and or what should I do. I dont want to just jump from church to church. But if its wrong its wrong. so frustrated <br /><br />Please help.Johanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06611714920584838159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-6077852980060561212011-04-11T09:40:12.920-07:002011-04-11T09:40:12.920-07:00The much despised "funnymentalists" have...The much despised "funnymentalists" have been saying this for nearly 80 years. It is a great message!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12350046953751958200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-3831294423869342742011-04-11T08:54:44.337-07:002011-04-11T08:54:44.337-07:00Phil, this was simply outstanding. Thank you. Seri...Phil, this was simply outstanding. Thank you. Seriously.Mike Riccardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06748453197783538367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-76975063290769277502011-04-11T08:22:24.426-07:002011-04-11T08:22:24.426-07:00Maybe Brian is playing the song he penned: http://...Maybe Brian is playing the song he penned: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6yacLd0tjodonsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-32175552991484988992011-04-11T08:14:50.707-07:002011-04-11T08:14:50.707-07:00I strongly disagree. He's obviously playing, ...I strongly disagree. He's obviously playing, "Good Morning, Starshine."jbborenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13917021408343032334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-74766067506701277812011-04-11T08:01:06.182-07:002011-04-11T08:01:06.182-07:00Phil Johnson said:
This may sound like an oxymoro...Phil Johnson said:<br /><br /><i>This may sound like an oxymoron, but while treating faith as an academic matter, liberals prefer an almost anti-intellectual, agnostic approach to dealing with the specific truth-claims of Scripture. They like their doctrine hazy and indistinct.The point is disputed by top scholars, and who are we to speak with too much certainty? Let's have a five-year moratorium on strong opinions.</i><br /><br />These are the acidic effects of Kantian metaphysics through and through. The objective is merely the interpretation of reality with which most everyone agrees. Any substantial disagreement means that no "objective" position on a topic or subject exists or can be perceived. So humility is demanded.<br /><br />Indeed, objective reality itself cannot be perceived; we are left only with our subjective impressions. After Kant, God, being an objective reality, cannot be accessed at all in any direct sense. Hence the fuzzy, vague and unexplicable experiences with the "Word" and the reduction of Jesus to a good teacher.<br /><br />In this sense, the liberals are not anti-intellectual in any way whatsoever. They are being faithful to and intellectually consistent with Kant and his ideas. The problem is the framework, which seemingly remains unquestioned, perhaps because the academy in general finds Kant's philosophical contributions to be so enticing. (And Kant was a genius in this area, even if I find much of his project ultimately troubling.)<br /><br />In my estimation, the problem is also philosophical, even if it is also driven and reinforced by a desire for glory and relevance. We can't ignore that some liberals are merely being consistent with their starting principles. For some liberals, a good witness will entail a need to address these Kantian assumptions, and not just the motives, in order to show the intellectual failings of the liberal and post-liberal movement(s).<br /><br />Paul addressed the contemporary philosophical assumptions of Epicureanism and Stoicism as well as the motivations of the heart. We should do the same.Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12784922935749497931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-42309128449766615262011-04-11T07:53:44.364-07:002011-04-11T07:53:44.364-07:00Amazing how much the religious left and the politi...Amazing how much the religious left and the political left are alike and yet, not surprising.<br /><br />I can provide a witness to donsands experience with the “Family Friendly Radio Station.” Love their “Positive Thought” for the day which has a ratio of about one quarter Biblical thought and three quarters Poor Richard’s Almanac. I still find it an alternative to when the other station has on its infomercials though.JackWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16384160992033491748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-22801187586375927992011-04-11T07:37:56.536-07:002011-04-11T07:37:56.536-07:00"Even if the Emergent ghetto does finally and..."Even if the Emergent ghetto does finally and completely give up the ghost, many of the leading figures and popular ideas from that movement will simply blend into mainstream evangelicalism (which is growing less mainstream and less evangelical all the time)."<br /><br />No truer words.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com