tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post1813072197309174865..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: I know how to start an instant 200-comment brawl, and here's the proofPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger246125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-13719596652825732232009-08-02T21:20:40.262-07:002009-08-02T21:20:40.262-07:00Sigh. I'll turn out the lights, as always.
I ...Sigh. I'll turn out the lights, as always.<br /><br />I have to admit, I skimmed through the last 45 messages or so.<br /><br />Can I at least have one question answered here?<br /><br />In the original churches, what did they do during the service, and why? Please note: I'm not looking for "well, Paul preached for 6 hours", blah blah blah. I'm looking for the WHAT and WHY answers, and a Biblical and historical answer to these questions. If I walked into a service where Paul was preaching and sat down, what would I see from start to finish, and why? Were any of these services ever historically recorded on paper as to what happened from beginning to end?Gilberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05267525662313103148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-74312229637650395882009-08-02T14:26:54.848-07:002009-08-02T14:26:54.848-07:00The way our church does it currently is:
Announce...The way our church does it currently is:<br /><br />Announcements<br />Pastoral Prayer<br />Call to worship<br />Bible Reading<br />psalms, hymns and spiritual songs etc<br />(30 mins)<br /><br />Sermon<br />(1 hour)<br /><br />Closing Song<br />Benediction <br />(5 mins)<br /><br />I would personally love a service if it was just preaching, communion and then a fellowship lunch. More like early church style.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-85467549630757019652009-07-30T21:35:28.060-07:002009-07-30T21:35:28.060-07:00I don't care. Just preach the gospel in a way...I don't care. Just preach the gospel in a way that feeds the flock. Just sing in a way that honors and praises God. Announce what's needed to unify the body in prayer for one another and allows people to know what they need to know about the fellowship events. Whatever, just do it all for the glory of God and go on. Just do the next thing, and don't worry so much.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-91050944190384587332009-07-30T14:46:09.829-07:002009-07-30T14:46:09.829-07:00"Scottie, don't worry about the iPhone ap..."Scottie, don't worry about the iPhone apps; Sulu says he's picking up some strong energy readings emanating from "And His Ministers A Flame Of Fire".<br /> <br />:)chopstickschanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12391953126965807985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-6555677506933966642009-07-30T10:22:17.169-07:002009-07-30T10:22:17.169-07:00Of all the days that my computer had to break down...Of all the days that my computer had to break down. . .David Regierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09766862583586784668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-18180764758936249472009-07-30T08:12:20.113-07:002009-07-30T08:12:20.113-07:00A true (Roman!) Catholic apologist would never app...A true (Roman!) Catholic apologist would never appeal to the original text.<br /><br />He would tell a story, appeal to decades of tradition, then mock you as Bubba-jean Buford-head Of 13210293 Denominations for referencing the actual text.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-89542352409326163422009-07-30T08:07:38.033-07:002009-07-30T08:07:38.033-07:00I stand by my statement, in spite of your catholic...I stand by my statement, in spite of your catholic-apologist-like defense of this meta obviously going off the rails.<br /><br />First one to say "nazi" loses. <br /><br />:-)FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-79867138825692294172009-07-30T05:53:47.853-07:002009-07-30T05:53:47.853-07:00also, I think it's good for pastors and elders...<i>also, I think it's good for pastors and elders to see such discussion.</i> --DJP<br /><br />I'm not sure they do, often.<br /><br />Our "adult pastor" one Sunday came into our SS class, and as a discussion starter asked about changes in church since, you know, back when. He got an earful. I for my part (I'm nothing special, just another Joe Pewsitter) threw in my 2 cents towards principle (why do we do what we do, what's the theology behind it) and history (there's a bigger world and longer history than 20th Cent. low church evangelicalism). The whole thing got derailed by the music argument.<br /><br />He's been reading <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Who-Stole-My-Church-Century/dp/078522601X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1248957800&sr=8-1" rel="nofollow">Who Stole My Church</a> which makes me wonder if there's a "church transition" in the works.lee n. fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01652025469454858807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-91022055596677866612009-07-30T05:24:18.305-07:002009-07-30T05:24:18.305-07:00My rejoinder would be to go back to the original p...My rejoinder would be to go back to the original post and tap meaningfully on the words, "This is a more-or-less free-for-all, but within the posted blog rules."<br /><br />You have a surrejoinder?<br /><br />(c;DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-56195885711810532522009-07-30T05:21:40.904-07:002009-07-30T05:21:40.904-07:00I just want to point out that this thread had to g...I just want to point out that this thread had to get TOTALLY DERAILED in order to cross the 200-comment threshold.<br /><br />TOTALLY DERAILED. And not by me, mind you!FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-74342796691645080832009-07-30T04:25:36.180-07:002009-07-30T04:25:36.180-07:00It's a good word, Tom; thanks. I agree.
Not p...It's a good word, Tom; thanks. I agree.<br /><br />Not preaching regularly, I feel a particular need to say a lot whenever anyone unleashes me on a pulpit. But were I graced with a regular preaching ministry, I can well imagine that a series through a book <i>could</i> feature sermons of varying link — as the brother shared about preaching a briefer sermon on each of the Beatitudes, for instance. I can imagine that his thought was: two Beatitudes would be too much for one sermon, but I don't see a need to take __ minutes for just one, every time.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-64570828498698502322009-07-30T04:18:48.469-07:002009-07-30T04:18:48.469-07:00Lee, nah. My own cogitation; also, I think it'...Lee, nah. My own cogitation; also, I think it's good for pastors and elders to see such discussion. One gets in a rut, and every now and again it's good to find a way <i>out</i> of the rut, and consider whether or not it's a <i>good</i> rut.<br /><br />(c:DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-43594116058682963222009-07-30T00:58:12.776-07:002009-07-30T00:58:12.776-07:00"...am I really going be get put in the posit..."...am I really going be get put in the position of seeming to say something critical of the Lord's Supper?"<br /><br />Not at all. It's just one of my husband's favorite little "digs." Tim Bushong's comment helped flesh out what my Phil argues for. And, thankfully, when we do have communion, that's what takes place. It's a mini-sermon, usually done by an elder other than our pastor, and always with some kind of fencing of the table.<br /><br />And my Phil holds to the mystical presence of Christ view of communion, thus why he personally advocates for having it weekly. It's a living symbol of what has (hopefully) just been thoroughly proclaimed.Rachael Starkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10781158372237369417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-56593840244486854862009-07-29T22:58:54.157-07:002009-07-29T22:58:54.157-07:00I'd like to comment on just one aspect of your...I'd like to comment on just one aspect of your question, and that is the sermon. I want to be careful here lest I venture off into "I think" or "I feel." <br /><br />Scripture doesn't say how long a sermon should be. Examples in Scripture of "preaching" vary greatly. We have Ezra reading the law to the people in Nehemiah 8 from early morning until midday and "translating to give the sense so that they understood the reading." We also have Paul's sermon in Troas in Acts 20, a story which has been used by many to argue against long sermons lest people start falling out of windows.<br /><br />But then there are other examples where we see preaching occurring and the length is unclear. Jesus' "Sermon on the Mount" can be read in a rather short amount of time, as can Peter's sermon in Acts 2. Of course, it seems fairly clear that what we have recorded for us in Scripture is, by God's design and providence, not every word they said when they preached. <br /><br />But there are several things clear about preaching in Scripture. First, there IS a gift of preaching given to men, and therefore we can have certainty that the Holy Spirit equips and guides men in this practice. Secondly, preaching is to faithfully explain the Word of God. Thirdly, men, even men gifted to preach, are still prone to sinfulness, pride, arrogance, etc. and must be careful not to go beyond what Scripture says or to try and preach beyond where the Holy Spirit has led. <br /><br />So how long should a sermon be? I would say as long as it needs to be for a gifted man, led by the Holy Spirit to faithfully explain a portion of Scripture, all the while making a sober self-assessment of his own giftedness, and making himself accountable to the elders so as not to venture off into selfish ambitions or "soap boxes." <br /><br />From my own experience I have found that a sermon of 45-60 minutes by a gifted man faithfully explains a portion of Scripture. But I've also heard a portion of Scripture faithfully explained in 20 minutes as well as in and hour and a half. But these tend to be the exception. <br /><br />So, forgive me for not addressing the other issues. The preaching of the Word is paramount in worship as it is the basis for everything else that is done. Therefore I have focused on this one point.Team Tominthebox News Networkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16874523643933164803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-58059160869453506002009-07-29T20:16:26.435-07:002009-07-29T20:16:26.435-07:00So, are we providing material for your book?So, are we providing material for your book?lee n. fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01652025469454858807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-79428234780384495452009-07-29T20:15:07.135-07:002009-07-29T20:15:07.135-07:00Very good.
(c:Very good.<br /><br />(c:DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-71702535160999771372009-07-29T20:08:48.659-07:002009-07-29T20:08:48.659-07:00"Lee — Ha! Skip this blog a day....
And what...<i>"Lee — Ha! Skip this blog a day....<br /><br />And what have we learned?"</i><br /><br /><br />Don't Do That Then.lee n. fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01652025469454858807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-39705458628594298422009-07-29T20:05:17.970-07:002009-07-29T20:05:17.970-07:00After skimming through the various comments, I'...After skimming through the various comments, I'll add to my comment above: no screen, no projector, no powerpoint. None. You can do it.<br /><br />Listen to <a href="http://theologica.blogspot.com/2009/05/why-johnny-cant-preach.html" rel="nofollow">T. David Gordon</a> tell you why (even if he's wrong about chirographic culture).lee n. fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01652025469454858807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-36148914013925141212009-07-29T20:03:43.595-07:002009-07-29T20:03:43.595-07:00What would cause somebody to skip a day reading th...What would cause somebody to skip a day reading this blog?<br /><br />I'm suspicious.<br />Must be something <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c6HsiixFS8" rel="nofollow">in the water</a>.Mike Westfallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06944727980772754938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-55435930844955182482009-07-29T20:00:56.978-07:002009-07-29T20:00:56.978-07:00Lee — Ha! Skip this blog a day....
And what have ...<b>Lee</b> — <i>Ha! Skip this blog a day....</i><br /><br />And what have we learned?<br /><br />Class?DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-41760751296584070862009-07-29T19:57:40.205-07:002009-07-29T19:57:40.205-07:00Squirrel: how exactly should we be preparing our ...Squirrel: how exactly should we be preparing our hearts for worship. I'd submit that some of us prepare by talking to others. I'm tired on Sundays after a long work week and since I can't have my usual amount of caffeine that I'd normally have, the only thing that gets me out of my grumpy stage is to fellowship.<br /><br />Dan: I can't stand announcements. We email them two days or more before the service and then print a bulletin. If you want me to read either don't give them to me at the service. Fortunately my church takes about two minutes to merely point out something out of the ordinary and that's it, generally. <br /><br />Rachael: I now volunteer in children's church and I definately know the feeling. My church extends the service once a month for communion and there is no children's church. Still, try keeping a 2 year old occupied for 75 to 90 minutes. Honestly, I have trouble staying focused that long.<br /><br />Others: I can't stay focused for a 90 minute movie much less a 2 hour service. A sermon that's like a lecture is good, but I need a break after 30 minutes. Even my college courses gave breaks after 40 minutes of lecture. For simple minded sermons, I'll tune you out after 30 minutes. I don't need 40 minutes to grasp 5th grade level instruction. And keep in mind that many of us go<br />to Sunday school before the service, which was already at least one hour of lecture.<br /><br />My pastor recently rebuked those people who come<br />late to Sunday school. I told him thanks, I needed that. If you have some tardy people consider telling them to make an effort to get there on time.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-4470788240548566132009-07-29T19:50:18.355-07:002009-07-29T19:50:18.355-07:00(I have no relevant comment to the body of your te...(I have no relevant comment to the body of your text, Dan--only to the title. Just wanted to say that I'm glad your claim has been warranted! For a while yesterday I was getting worried because you were at 160 something for a long time.<br /><br />Beatles' "With A Little Help From My Friends" comes to mind....)Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08289347868497438542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-64104529889384819662009-07-29T19:38:53.171-07:002009-07-29T19:38:53.171-07:00Ha! Skip this blog a day, and up comes a somethin...Ha! Skip this blog a day, and up comes a something I'm very interested in, and a comment list that's 200+ deep.<br /><br />What do I think a 90 minute worship service should be structured? Mark Hanson's post, 6th from the top, matches very closely how worship was structured in the CRC congregation we were a member of, decades back. And we took 90 minutes. Additionally I'd want to include the periodic reading of the Decalogue.<br /><br />Why, and how is this justified is the more interesting question.<br /><br />Firstly, a general human principle -- don't be stupid, crazy or evil.<br /><br />Negatively, don't do anything God says not to do. Easy ones: no other gods, no idols to represent Yahweh, no cult prostitution.<br /><br />Positively, I'm quite attracted to the notion of the regulative principle of worship. It's a brake on the craziness.<br /><br />A couple of the things I've read lately have been polemical tracts written by Calvin -- his <i>Reply to Sadoleto</i>, and <i>The Necessity for Reforming the Church</i>. It's quite striking to me how much importance he placed on reforming worship.<br /><br />And you Baptists -- I'd drop the baby dedications. Yeah, yeah, Samuel was dedicated. So what?lee n. fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01652025469454858807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-55507106647280901422009-07-29T16:18:50.804-07:002009-07-29T16:18:50.804-07:00Nice. The comments are at precisely 222. I hope ...Nice. The comments are at precisely 222. I hope no one else comments, and changes the total.<br /><br />*blink*<br /><br />...<br /><br />*blink blink*<br /><br />*crickets chirp*Jugulumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09932658890162312549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-46028841397637583482009-07-29T12:57:21.018-07:002009-07-29T12:57:21.018-07:00I cannot brawl if I cannot read... Stan said noth...I cannot brawl if I cannot read... Stan said nothing like what I said.<br /><br />Mea Culpa<br />al sendsAlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02659402617723892967noreply@blogger.com