tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post2158478753897501483..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Assurance: Every Believer's BirthrightPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-63883979130534077712012-06-03T19:00:51.252-07:002012-06-03T19:00:51.252-07:00"Blessed Sabbath, all."-Tom C.
It was a..."Blessed Sabbath, all."-Tom C.<br /><br />It was an inexpressible joy kind of Sabbath.<br />Our pastor preached from 1st Peter 1:1-16<br /><br />God's foreknowledge is amazing.<br /><br />Have a blessed week in the truth of our salvation.<br /><br />"My sin, oh, the bliss of this glorious thought!<br />My sin, not in part but the whole,<br />Is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more,<br />Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!"-Horatio Spafforddonsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-59547202457151189312012-06-03T10:39:02.811-07:002012-06-03T10:39:02.811-07:00Nonna: I identify as a Christian, not as a Calvini...Nonna: I identify as a Christian, not as a Calvinist; I expect that's true of most people who read this blog. So excoriating Calvinists who may be rather blasé towards distinguishing truth from error is fine with me, just as excoriating the manmade doctrines of the RCC is, also. I think it's awfully hard to point out Biblical beliefs surrounding the Gospel without fairly quickly running into the need for pointing out its pretenders. <br />I guess you found out today that low church isn't the clinical term your high church reference group has always told you it was. Let's hear it for learning something new.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-73041606181851504772012-06-03T09:39:20.670-07:002012-06-03T09:39:20.670-07:00Jeremiah,
Having lived in the Transcaucasus for n...Jeremiah, <br />Having lived in the Transcaucasus for nearly a decade, I just cannot resist the urge to point out the difference between Armenian and Arminian. The first refers to a citizen of Armenia; the second refers to a theological belief system. It's a very common error! :-)Kathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16066715085302965768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-9887947835805756692012-06-03T04:45:02.667-07:002012-06-03T04:45:02.667-07:00I'm admittedly late to the party but, let'...I'm admittedly late to the party but, let's be clear: The Pope is not a demon, he's <a href="http://www.ianpaisley.org/antichrist.asp" rel="nofollow">the Antichrist</a>.<br /><br />There, I offended everybody. Blessed Sabbath, all.Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-84815868842234467072012-06-03T00:54:26.284-07:002012-06-03T00:54:26.284-07:00...it's simply a descriptive way of referring ...<i>...it's simply a descriptive way of referring to them so no offense ought to be taken, right "mate?"</i><br /><br />No offense taken here. After all, the insult is directed at your high church Calvinist brethren. But aren't you just retaliating in the same manner that you find so repugnant among the high church folks?Nonnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452040267177962781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-56352233692859117342012-06-03T00:40:14.651-07:002012-06-03T00:40:14.651-07:00There is nothing inherently high about liturgy, ri...<i>There is nothing inherently high about liturgy, rituals, and robes; or perhaps you dispute that point? I notice you didn't comment on that.</i><br /><br />Whew, Nash, I must have really touched a nerve. I feel like the Psalmist, "What I did not steal must I now restore?" I didn't comment on those things because they were not apropos as regards the topic at hand. And btw, there's nothing inherently high nor inherently low about liturgy, rituals, and robes. <br /><br /><i>Furthermore, I imagine you think that the more someone is willing to let slide the serious doctrinal errors of the RCC, the better suited they are to address Catholics, and the rest of us ought to just be quiet.</i><br /><br />Well Nash, you imagine wrongly. But do you really want to excoriate your high church Calvinist brethren in such a fashion? <br /><br />Again I suppose it's time to beat those swords into plowshares. Peace.Nonnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452040267177962781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-14746412662004625272012-06-03T00:18:36.188-07:002012-06-03T00:18:36.188-07:00Jeremiah,
Have I really offended you that much? ...Jeremiah,<br /><br />Have I really offended you that much? If so, I truly apologize. <br /><br />However, there is a differentiation between opposing a particular doctrine and opposing a person. Christians can and do have doctrinal disagreements, but when those disagreements turn into <i>personal</i> insults wherein condemnations are issued, then the discussion has run amuck. <br /><br /><i>Why do you keep throwing a similar charge at me?</i><br /><br />Have I really done that? I don't recall attacking you personally. If so, I'll say here and now that I'm sorry. However, please don't mistake the disagreements I have with Calvinism as an attack against you personally. Conversely, I don't take your criticism against Synergism as a personal attack on me. <br /><br /><i>All I'm hearing from you is "You're just a low-level Calvinist who will Amen anything posted here."</i><br /><br />Wow. We must be operating on two different wave lengths. If you really think that, how can I convince you otherwise? Cyberspace indeed has it's challenges and this is one of those times.<br /><br /><i>There's your practical application that you long for more than the simple biblical truth.</i><br /><br />Are you sure you really wanna go there? You can discern my heart in such a way when you have never met me personally? <br /><br /><i>But I'm not continuing while you simply insist on trampling the pearls I hold so dear under foot.</i><br /><br />For someone who began by saying they're not on here rebuking me for believing in a system that is "completely unbiblical", well...I suppose you really told me a thing or two.<br /><br />I think it would be wise to beat our swords into plowshares at this juncture. What ya say?Nonnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452040267177962781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-86696509476476766042012-06-02T23:28:57.787-07:002012-06-02T23:28:57.787-07:00Counselors and analysts know that persistent uncer...Counselors and analysts know that persistent uncertainty is one of the most corrosive influences on peace of mind, clarity of thought, and quality of life. When the uncertainty has to do with something as significant as one's status before God and eternal state, it is worse. <br /><br />The Catholic Church had to provide antidotes for the uncertainty it created. John Owen commented in his book on the mortification of sin: "The whole bundle of the popish religion is made up of designs and contrivances to pacify the conscience without Christ; all described by the apostle in Romans 10:3"C. T. Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03091864218423907942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-72735905287651637092012-06-02T20:20:33.645-07:002012-06-02T20:20:33.645-07:00PS: I propose from now on everyone simply avoid th...PS: I propose from now on everyone simply avoid the terms high and low church, and instead refer to them as "dead church" and "alive church." Since a reliance on ritual and liturgies is dead and a reliance on spontaneous worship is alive, it's simply a descriptive way of referring to them so no offense ought to be taken, right "mate?"Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-38697270260516930302012-06-02T19:59:52.620-07:002012-06-02T19:59:52.620-07:00No I don't think I lost you, I think you don&#...No I don't think I lost you, I think you don't like hearing the truth of the matter, that is, that once upon a time someone in a high church hierarchy gave those who rightly protested against the trappings of so called high church, by giving them a name (low church) that implied those low church fellows were the Great Unwashed of Christendom. (psst! You dont want to be in that low crowd, do you?) And you perpetuate the error, using it here as an insult, then trying to feign ignorance of the insult. There is nothing inherently high about liturgy, rituals, and robes; or perhaps you dispute that point? I notice you didn't comment on that.<br /><br />That aside, moving to the subject of who if anyone, is better suited to address Catholics... You think the liturgical crowd Calvinist is better suited. Might that be because they are more willing to only indirectly address the serious disconnects between Biblical doctrines and the Catholic teachings of men? Yeah, maybe so. Furthermore, I imagine you think that the more someone is willing to let slide the serious doctrinal errors of the RCC, the better suited they are to address Catholics, and the rest of us ought to just be quiet.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51911880482326148812012-06-02T19:55:14.838-07:002012-06-02T19:55:14.838-07:00I am going to try and respond without throwing thi...I am going to try and respond without throwing this thread into an unnecessary tangent.<br /><br />Nonna,<br /><br />Please take note that I have never once referred to you as Armenian. I'm not on here rebuking you for believing a system that I believe to be completely unbiblical, in this thread or the one where we were arguing over the sufficiency of scripture.<br /><br />I will tell you that I believe your wrong and I will use scripture to prove it, but how many times before this have you heard me attack you for making God subject to the will of man, as your beliefs do? I have not continual assaulted your belief system nor concluded that you're just 'one of those free-willers that can't be reasoned with because God hasn't revealed it to you yet' like some hyper-Calvinist. Why do you keep throwing a similar charge against me?<br /><br />All I'm hearing from you is "You're just a low-level Calvinist who will Amen anything posted here." Maybe that's not what you intend, but you aren't looking for answers with that implicit message constantly being thrown out; you're looking for a fight.<br /><br />But for your question;<br /><br />~What language shall I borrow to thank Thee dearest friend,<br />For this, Thy dying sorrow, Thy pity without end?<br />O make me Thine forever; and should I fainting be,<br />Lord let me never, never outlive my love for Thee.~<br /><br />There's your practical application that you long for more than the simple biblical truth. Far more could be said on the subject, but I'm not continuing while you simply insist on trampling the pearls I hold so dear underfoot. Good day.Jeremiah Greenwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08299973303636654588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-71673042908362125952012-06-02T18:37:33.466-07:002012-06-02T18:37:33.466-07:00Ok Nash...let's get our cards out on the table...Ok Nash...let's get our cards out on the table. First of all, when I initially used the term it was to differentiate between the attitudes <i>low church Calvinists</i> have toward Catholics in particular as opposed to <i>high church Calvinists</i>. This is just an observation that I have noticed in my encounters with Calvinists. And I'll grant you that I prefer the attitude which high church Calvinists demonstrate toward Catholics. So in this specific sense, I would assert that high church Calvinists are better suited to address Catholics. <br /><br />As regards your beliefs and forms of worship I have no dog in the fight since I have no allegiance to high church or low church Calvinism. And you're right, as far as some <i>not-so-subtle form of manipulation</i> - well, that's where you lose me. My use of the term was not to impugn one particular faith tradition over another - certainly not as regards doctrine or praxis. Rather, I was expressing what I consider to be a distinct observation.Nonnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452040267177962781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-5489333711838779192012-06-02T17:42:49.517-07:002012-06-02T17:42:49.517-07:00Nonna: I know what it means. I'm talking about...Nonna: I know what it <i>means</i>. I'm talking about how you are using it: as a put-down. In other words, you are using it the same way so-called "high" church people always have, to imply that there is something superior about liturgy, your view of sacraments, and so on. Because, after all, there is nothing inherently "high" about such things, nor "low" about the others, is there? The phrase is a not-so-subtle form of manipulation that, apparently, you have fallen for.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-53307011771950060462012-06-02T17:09:36.238-07:002012-06-02T17:09:36.238-07:00DJP:
HA...Ya got me! :-)DJP:<br /><br />HA...Ya got me! :-)Nonnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452040267177962781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-17831434279936174102012-06-02T17:08:08.032-07:002012-06-02T17:08:08.032-07:00Nash,
Do you even know what low church means and ...Nash,<br /><br />Do you even know what <i>low church</i> means and where the term came from in the first place? It certainly isn't a word I invented, but rather, a term used by Calvinists themselves as well as Christians from other faith traditions. My husband who was raised as a <i>high church</i> Anglican eventually attended a <i>low church</i> Anglican Church, better known as The American Epicscopal Church. It was from him that I first heard the terms used. <br /><br />Among Classical Calvinists such as Dr. Peter Leithart & James Jordan, who embrace a <i>Reformed Catholicism</i>, the terms low and high church have been assigned specific meanings. The predecessors of these men, who called themselves high church Calvinists, would be those who associated themselves with Mercersburg Theology. John Williamson Nevin and Phillip Schaff were outspoken high church Calvinists who spear-headed the Mercersburg Theological Movement. In fact, a book was written about Nevin entitled, "High Church Calvinist." Basically the high church view was a reaction to American Revivalist Protestantism which swept across this nation in the 19th C. The differences between the two:<br /><br />High Church stresses the importance and centrality of the sacraments in the life of the Christian.<br /><br />Low Church de-emphasizes the need for sacraments.<br /><br />Both churches have a different understanding of the efficacy of Baptism and the Lord's Supper.<br /><br />High Church has a form of liturgical worship whereas low church does not.<br /><br />High church places a greater emphasis on the importance of learning from the early church fathers than low church.<br /><br />There are other differences as well but I think what I have here will suffice.<br /><br />If one indeed firmly adheres to low church principles, then being termed a <i>low church Calvinist</i> should not be considered a pajorative term. If they're your convictions then wear them like a badge of honor. And should someone consider you a low church Calvinist, don't take offense.Nonnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452040267177962781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-37363981504970779712012-06-02T16:25:03.463-07:002012-06-02T16:25:03.463-07:00Oh gosh, Nash -- now she's going to have to ta...Oh gosh, Nash -- now she's going to have to <i>talk</i> more!<br /><br />o_ODJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-2785615756296669732012-06-02T16:02:59.993-07:002012-06-02T16:02:59.993-07:00It seems obvious to me that anyone who sniffs the ...It seems obvious to me that anyone who sniffs the term "low church" to other believers is high on some sort of spiritual pride.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-12687944407570827552012-06-02T15:18:05.822-07:002012-06-02T15:18:05.822-07:00Ah...Jeremiah, but that's where you might be a...Ah...Jeremiah, but that's where you might be a bit myopic. This is, after all, a Calvinist blog, and in particular of the low church variety. Many of the entries/comments implicitly and/or explicitly empahsize the Calvinistic doctrines. Oui?<br /><br />And btw, I'm an equal opportunity Christian. In my first comment within this thread I mentioned a number of Christian denominations. In my second comment to worthless, I mentioned Protestants in general. In my third comment to Daryl, I said nothing of Calvinism. In my fourth comment to Jules the subject matter had nothing to do with Calvinism. In my fifth comment to Phil I was asking about a particular teaching that I had never heard of for years as a Christian, which btw I've never gotten a response on that one from anyone that I've asked. Perhaps you'd be willing to tackle it. :-) My sixth comment was a response to Eric - no Calvinism discussed there either. And my seventh comment...TA DA! I specifically mentioned Calvinism - of the low church variety in particular. <br /><br />So there you have it. Hey, this is a Calvinist blog and INQIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW. Inquiring non-Calvinist minds, that is. :-) <br /><br />Have a nice day, mate.Nonnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452040267177962781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-53854925296100807432012-06-02T14:24:18.867-07:002012-06-02T14:24:18.867-07:00The purpose was to point us to Christ's atonin...The purpose was to point us to Christ's atoning work on the Cross and all that it bought us, stating that our confidence is not in our flesh or ability to keep the law but in God's unending love.<br /><br />The choir needs good teaching just like every other sinner on earth, and you're the one who keeps making it about Calvinism; is that your only purpose in commenting?Jeremiah Greenwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08299973303636654588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-72044712622490968642012-06-02T13:51:31.285-07:002012-06-02T13:51:31.285-07:00Was this entry about preachin' to the choir or...Was this entry about preachin' to the choir or ministering to Catholics or none of the above? It's a <i>given</i> what most lower church Calvinists think about Catholics so is the point to remind yourselves how blessed you are not to be one of them?Nonnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452040267177962781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-63478190541487656822012-06-02T11:21:02.201-07:002012-06-02T11:21:02.201-07:00"How would a Catholic answer?"
They may..."How would a Catholic answer?"<br /><br />They may have do a little time in Purgatory. RC's try to cover all the bases, and they also have "Hail Mary full of grace....pray for us sinners."<br /><br />Sad.donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-64056034971718339082012-06-01T21:00:28.368-07:002012-06-01T21:00:28.368-07:00Do priests have "assurance"? How would ...Do priests have "assurance"? How would a Catholic answer?Julie Gebhardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00201033193802122859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-30304484666159385212012-06-01T17:56:28.516-07:002012-06-01T17:56:28.516-07:00Great post!Great post!Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-63842090154736991062012-06-01T16:21:45.281-07:002012-06-01T16:21:45.281-07:00PGEpps:
Have you converted to Roman Catholicism? ...<b>PGEpps:</b><br /><br />Have you converted to Roman Catholicism? AND are you saying you agree with the Council of Ephesus' condemnation of Pelagianism?<br /><br />Does that mean you now accept the doctrine of original sin? If so, at least you have moved an inch or two in the right direction. Bravo.<br /><br />Still, it intrigues and troubles me that almost every time you resurface you are touting some major new wrinkle in your worldview. You should peruse <a href="http://www.teampyro.org/search/label/paradigm-shifting" rel="nofollow">some of our posts on the dangers of serial paradigm shifting.</a><br /><br />You also need to read more on the post-Reformation discussion among Protestants regarding whether assurance is of the essence of faith. The history of development in the Reformed view(s) on assurance is not quite what you have portrayed. However, one thing all the leading Reformers, Puritans, and evangelical Protestants have insisted on is that settled assurance is not only possible, but it's also one of the expected fruits of mature faith.Phil Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-8423731696260699492012-06-01T16:19:51.251-07:002012-06-01T16:19:51.251-07:00I grew up in a fundamentalist church which left me...I grew up in a fundamentalist church which left me with a lot of doubt about whether I could ever be sure I was truly converted. I felt that I was responsible for my salvation because I had to have faith to be saved. "Do you know beyond a shadow of a doubt, if you died tonight, you would go to heaven?" was preached at youth meetings on a regular basis. This frustrated me greatly. I believed the Gospel, but how could I ever be sure I truly believed? Was there supposed to be this mystical, fuzzy feeling to tell me? I knew I couldn't save myself, but I had to believe and I had to believe right. This scared me - how could I trust myself with something so important? How could I know that my faith was "right" or "enough" etc. etc. And how did I know I had it?? It was a big struggle for me. <br /><br />Finally after much Bible study I realized Eph. 2:8-9 refers to even our saving faith as coming from God as a gift. And Mark 9:24 helped me see that I could ask God for the faith. What a relief that was for me. <br /><br />How wonderful that Christ draws us to Himself and supplies the faith we need for salvation. He answers our prayers for faith. It is not up to us, it is up to Him. He is the author and finisher of my faith. This is my hope and assurance.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07407745022507231515noreply@blogger.com