tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post2346038186944306366..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Yes, We Do NEED SarcasmPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger98125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-2282066795320684672007-08-24T04:01:00.000-07:002007-08-24T04:01:00.000-07:00Bethany, you mentioned two groups: those arguing s...Bethany, you mentioned two groups: those arguing sarcasm is never appropriate and those saying, yes, it is sometimes.<BR/><BR/>Surely there's at least one more group here you didn't mention: the group holding the view expressed in the original post i.e. "we <EM>need</EM> sarcasm".Helenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03605999794188527973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-60275516375835381252007-08-22T20:03:00.000-07:002007-08-22T20:03:00.000-07:00I think that some of the misunderstanding in this ...I think that some of the misunderstanding in this discussion is that some people are forwarding an argument that sarcasm is always bad. Others find examples where it might not be, and the first group accuses them of making excuses, choosing un-authoritative sources, etc. <BR/>Perhaps you can tell by my mildly weary tone that I side with the second group. Sure, there are times when sarcasm is hurtful. Maybe even MOST of the time. But there are also times when it's a useful, elegant, perhaps even necessary form of communication.<BR/>Call me postmodern, and I'll embrace it. I am suspicious of broad, universal claims. Especially about things as slippery as language.bethanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08163733354894909762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-79349819318038922362007-08-21T21:18:00.000-07:002007-08-21T21:18:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Tedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15476248349537838315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-89457065024729212442007-08-21T13:38:00.000-07:002007-08-21T13:38:00.000-07:00Helen,I think Dan was just pointing out Ted's use ...Helen,<BR/><BR/>I think Dan was just pointing out Ted's use of sarcasm to make his point that sarcasm is always wrong...sort of like using words to prove that words have no inherent meaning (another EC favourite)Darylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01296029404229769941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-2066684346782743912007-08-21T10:52:00.000-07:002007-08-21T10:52:00.000-07:00Ted,You might want to re-examine the context of so...Ted,<BR/><BR/>You might want to re-examine the context of some of those verses you cite. <BR/><BR/>Just a friendly suggestion.Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-32569237066567365212007-08-21T08:12:00.000-07:002007-08-21T08:12:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Tedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15476248349537838315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-83455846843875611242007-08-21T07:41:00.000-07:002007-08-21T07:41:00.000-07:00djp, what point are you making by quoting parts of...djp, what point are you making by quoting parts of ted's comment? I don't understand.Helenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03605999794188527973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-68108854441132005842007-08-21T05:39:00.000-07:002007-08-21T05:39:00.000-07:00Ted β I see CLEARLY now that Paul uses sarcasm. ....<B>Ted</B> β <I>I see CLEARLY now that Paul uses sarcasm. . . . the Apostle Paul, who was writing Holy Scripture, uses sarcasm - as do the Prophets and God Himself. Hmm. God's Word is sometimes sarcastic. I think I see the connection there (as in, βYes, the Holy Spirit uses sarcasm sometimes.β)</I><BR/><BR/>-- snip --<BR/><BR/><I>...I don't like the title nor the content of this post. Not one bit.</I>DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-4222021271935636332007-08-20T21:05:00.000-07:002007-08-20T21:05:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Tedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15476248349537838315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-38156852733217263532007-08-20T18:59:00.000-07:002007-08-20T18:59:00.000-07:00Helen,That's a good conviction. And you should liv...Helen,<BR/><BR/>That's a good conviction. And you should live by it.<BR/>I don't have the same conviction as you about sarcasm.<BR/>I like saracsm. It can be refreshing at times, and an excellent way to share truth.donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-67412909139125069402007-08-20T17:57:00.000-07:002007-08-20T17:57:00.000-07:00I can only speak for myself - when I felt like usi...I can only speak for myself - when I felt like using sarcasm, it felt like a temptation to be mean, in a clever, funny way that would make people 'on my side' laugh; it felt like a temptation to sin, not like being called to holiness by the Holy Spirit.Helenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03605999794188527973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-90866462552634742192007-08-20T17:46:00.000-07:002007-08-20T17:46:00.000-07:00Mike, it was a general comment. Thanks for the ver...Mike, it was a general comment. Thanks for the verses. I see that the apostle Paul used sarcasm but it bothers me when people say "because that's the word of God that means it's ok for us to sarcastically make fun of people". <BR/><BR/>Daryl I like your approach to what's in Paul's letters better too, but I don't think it applies to sarcasm, because who finds themselves unwilling to be sarcastic, as if it's something God has to push us into? Isn't being sarcastic something we love to do? If anything don't we need holding back rather than encouraging in that regard?Helenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03605999794188527973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-69620702155299406812007-08-20T17:37:00.000-07:002007-08-20T17:37:00.000-07:00I hate that you can't edit comments after you catc...I hate that you can't edit comments after you catch a mistake once they've been posted. I'll try again. <BR/><BR/>I think some of the objectors are missing the point entirely. I don't think anyone is advocating using sarcasm carte blanche, or in a knee-jerk fashion. But there are times where it is called for, especially in terms of rebuke when people needing the rebuke are being particularly recalcitrant. <BR/><BR/>This particular contingent of Christians today who feel that believers are to be nothing but Caspar Milquetoasts in society need to wise up. The Bible does not impose such a standard when it comes to dealing with false teachers, or for that matter, when preaching the Gospel to the populace. Stephen didn't get stoned to death by telling his audience that God loved them and had a wonderful plan for their lives. <BR/><BR/>In our history, Alexis DeTocqueville noted that one of the things that made America the great nation that she was is that her "pulpits thundered with righteousness." I can imagine what some of today's Christians with the type of mindset I'm describing would say about that. No one today would be permitted to preach with thunder. A mild crackle of Rice Krispies perhaps, mixed in with Wally Cox-style one-liners. In severe cases, some mild whining with limited hand-wringing would be okay. <BR/><BR/>In the end, it probably does little good to remonstrate with people who hold this mindset. They don't want you to confuse them with the facts, or ruin the warm, fuzzy, lava-lamp theology they've constructed for themselves.Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-28146785781420231632007-08-20T17:35:00.000-07:002007-08-20T17:35:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-7713656589282307242007-08-20T17:18:00.000-07:002007-08-20T17:18:00.000-07:00Helen,I'm not sure if your comment was directed at...Helen,<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure if your comment was directed at me, but in case it was, I'll respond. I believe I responded to Ted's implicit request for examples from Scripture in which the Apostles used sarcasm. I believe I did that. There was nothing about, "Now I can do that, too!" Although, I must admit I usually am in favor of following the example of the apostles (notwithstanding how imperfectly I do it).Mike Riccardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06748453197783538367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-10802931095711662522007-08-20T14:18:00.000-07:002007-08-20T14:18:00.000-07:00Helen: "Is that how you use the Bible?"'Let me se...Helen: <I>"Is that how you use the Bible?<BR/><BR/>"'Let me see if I have an excuse to behave like this - yes! Paul did it! I can do it too!'<BR/><BR/>"I thought it was supposed to inspire better behavior, not excuse what evidently is questionable."</I><BR/><BR/>Unless you want to make the case that Paul was sinning when he penned those portions of Scripture. So much for verbal, plenary inspiration.wordsmithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13694767852556204886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-86987626498420206442007-08-20T13:49:00.000-07:002007-08-20T13:49:00.000-07:00Perhaps a better way to say it would be ..."Paul d...Perhaps a better way to say it would be ..."Paul did it, I better be willing to as well, when the situation calls for it."Darylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01296029404229769941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-3038685108406233252007-08-20T13:14:00.000-07:002007-08-20T13:14:00.000-07:00Is that how you use the Bible? "Let me see if I ha...Is that how you use the Bible? <BR/><BR/>"Let me see if I have an excuse to behave like this - yes! Paul did it! I can do it too!"<BR/><BR/>I thought it was supposed to inspire better behavior, not excuse what evidently is questionable.Helenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03605999794188527973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-86415805013602124112007-08-20T11:40:00.000-07:002007-08-20T11:40:00.000-07:00Or the rest of this thread, and blog.Or the rest of this thread, and blog.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-59642205049445576092007-08-20T08:41:00.000-07:002007-08-20T08:41:00.000-07:00Ted,1 Cor 4:7-8 - For who regards you as superior?...Ted,<BR/><BR/>1 Cor 4:7-8 - For who regards you as superior? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it? You are already filled, you have already become rich, you have become kings without us; and indeed, I wish that you had become kings so that we also might reign with you.<BR/><BR/>2 Cor 3:1 - Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some, letters of commendation to you or from you? <BR/><BR/>2 Cor 10:1 - Now I, Paul, myself urge you by the mekness and gentleness of Christ--I who am meek when face to face with you, but bold toward you when absent! <BR/><BR/>2 Cor 11:1 - I wish that you would bear with me in a little foolishness; but indeed you are bearing with me.<BR/><BR/>2 Cor 11:17-23 - What I am saying, I am not saying as the Lord would, but as in foolishness, in this confidence of boasting. Since many boast according to the flesh, I will boast also. For you, being so wise, tolerate the foolish gladly. For you tolerate it if anyone enslaves you, anyone devours you, anyone takes advantage of you, anyone exalts himself, anyone hits you in the face. To my shame I must say that we have been weak by comparison But in whatever respect anyone else is bold--I speak in foolishness--I am just as bold myself. Are they Hebrews? So am I Are they Israelites? So am I Are they descendants of Abraham? So am I. Are they servants of Christ?--I speak as if insane--I more so; in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death.Mike Riccardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06748453197783538367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-88611778059158430012007-08-20T08:08:00.000-07:002007-08-20T08:08:00.000-07:00Just a little sarcasm by Paul4:8 Already you are s...Just a little sarcasm by Paul<BR/><BR/>4:8 Already you are satisfied! Already you are rich! You have become kings without us! I wish you had become kings so that we could reign with you! 4:9 For, I think, God has exhibited us apostles last of all, as men condemned to die, because we have become a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to people. 4:10 We are fools for Christ, but you are wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are distinguished, we are dishonored! <BR/><BR/>But Paul than says why he is sarcastic<BR/><BR/>4:14 I am not writing these things to shame you, but to correct you as my dear children.<BR/><BR/>I think sarcasm is well overused by all, including christians. But you cannot make a biblical case that it has no place in christian speach or writing (or poster making).David A. Carlsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00465387359523299616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-65182809800659818162007-08-20T07:17:00.000-07:002007-08-20T07:17:00.000-07:00Ted,You need to re-read Paul's writings. He uses s...Ted,<BR/><BR/>You need to re-read Paul's writings. He uses sarcasm in Corinthians and Galatians.Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-58068777181053128122007-08-19T12:49:00.000-07:002007-08-19T12:49:00.000-07:00And, this?http://www.missionalapologetics.com/Miss...And, this?<BR/><BR/>http://www.missionalapologetics.com/<BR/><BR/>Missional Apologetics? Isn't that an oxymoron?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-31445507226129335932007-08-19T12:48:00.000-07:002007-08-19T12:48:00.000-07:00Um...this is off-topic, but have y'all seen this?h...Um...this is off-topic, but have y'all seen this?<BR/><BR/>http://www.christiansconfess.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-6822445924161307972007-08-19T08:13:00.000-07:002007-08-19T08:13:00.000-07:00Third watch thoughts: NT:'faith,hope,love...' 'fru...Third watch thoughts:<BR/> NT:'faith,hope,love...'<BR/> 'fruit of the spirit...'<BR/> <BR/>I just wonder what old screwtape would teach contrary to the above? <BR/>Maybe.. 'rebellion, futility, and sarcasm, and the greatest of these is sarcasm?? Because it makes a great weapon, a dagger and not that hideous sword of the Spirit.' Or,<BR/><BR/> "Wormwood, keep in mind,<BR/> on that old ancient tree<BR/> hung the juicy fruit,so tastee..satire.. keep whispering<BR/> 'sample it and see.<BR/> You'll be the life of the party<BR/> with wit to inspire..' <BR/>hatred. <BR/> 'You now know good and evil.<BR/> So indulge. It brings great pleasure..'<BR/> to the ole serpent. <BR/>Just keep whispering <BR/>'you are <BR/>oh so <BR/>clever...' "<BR/> Disrespectfully yours,<BR/> ScrewtapeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com