tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post2607820204778593115..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: A Pint of Baby Orphan TearsPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-48505406156034096282013-06-12T22:29:10.063-07:002013-06-12T22:29:10.063-07:00Well, at least give us another Doug Wilson-esque p...Well, at least give us another Doug Wilson-esque post title. Aaron Snellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08551668915973379312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-59240849474301791312013-06-12T13:13:01.545-07:002013-06-12T13:13:01.545-07:00Since Trogdor has commented, why will I blog his a...Since Trogdor has commented, why will I blog his answer next week? Does it really need more words?FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-55467559894468532602013-06-12T13:01:29.316-07:002013-06-12T13:01:29.316-07:00"Soylent Green is people!"
And in some ..."Soylent Green is people!"<br /><br />And in some cases, none too soon. <br /><br />(Oops. Bad report.)James Scott Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07641370124346172648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-70572738895836635932013-06-12T12:04:07.715-07:002013-06-12T12:04:07.715-07:00Someone needs to start a fake Twitter Account: @Pe...Someone needs to start a fake Twitter Account: @PersonofBadReport.Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-19911014362507754592013-06-12T11:58:15.114-07:002013-06-12T11:58:15.114-07:00OK, I concede that the person who meets with the p...OK, I concede that the person who meets with the person of bad report, could do it over soylent green, milorganite, vegemite, or even dynamite. Not only coffee.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-82531658166364298372013-06-12T11:07:43.396-07:002013-06-12T11:07:43.396-07:00That Trogdor sure is smart for being just six mont...That Trogdor sure is smart for being just six months old!Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33561191410611764092013-06-12T11:01:33.635-07:002013-06-12T11:01:33.635-07:00Seems like it might be better to just ask if the o...Seems like it might be better to just ask if the other person needs to know, and why. Sometimes the answer is clearly that they don't need to know, but sometimes they definitely do.<br /><br />Why do you think they should know? If it's a specific need or broad enough application to be beneficial, tell away. Does it edify those who hear, even if it edifies by warning against false teaching or dangerous churches?<br /><br />There's a lot to like in the essay - it's far too easy to gossip or slander in the name of 'discernment'. But the idea that you should <i>never</i> pass it on is a massive and harmful overreach. Really odd to have such an incorrect blanket statement coming from someone who so often chastises us for lacking nuance.trogdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452996348717802065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-69877121713312586452013-06-12T10:10:42.984-07:002013-06-12T10:10:42.984-07:00Ladies and Gentlemen, the meta has now jumped the ...Ladies and Gentlemen, the meta has now jumped the shark!Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-27603809515205160092013-06-12T10:10:27.358-07:002013-06-12T10:10:27.358-07:00I don't live in Milwaukee County. In Waukesha...I don't live in Milwaukee County. In Waukesha we bury our "fertilizer" like decent Christians.Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-65344268017591592862013-06-12T10:03:24.965-07:002013-06-12T10:03:24.965-07:00Tom, as we enjoy Milorganite enriched tomatoes lat...Tom, as we enjoy Milorganite enriched tomatoes later this summer, my heart will be strangely warmed as I think about you and your contribution. Thank you in advance.<br /><br />And I attempt to never believe anything negative people say about you here. I cover it with milor...I mean love.Kerry James Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06083436735702873300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-35306902889005137682013-06-12T09:54:25.346-07:002013-06-12T09:54:25.346-07:00I still think they should have called Milorganite ...I still think they should have called Milorganite "Soilent Green."Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-71301823298854067982013-06-12T09:49:22.813-07:002013-06-12T09:49:22.813-07:00Milorganite?Milorganite?Kerry James Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06083436735702873300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-12890783551625313362013-06-12T09:47:24.266-07:002013-06-12T09:47:24.266-07:00Not something good.
Reagan put it best: "Tha...<i>Not something good.</i><br /><br />Reagan put it best: "That stuff that Bess Truman spent thirty-five years trying to get Harry to call 'fertilizer.'"Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-23157327552904023232013-06-12T09:39:41.662-07:002013-06-12T09:39:41.662-07:00SwimTheDeepEnd:
An advisor who gives advice he...SwimTheDeepEnd:<br /><br />An advisor who gives advice he's not got any stake in using himself is selling something.<br /><br />Not something good.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-14118447244010609232013-06-12T09:36:03.020-07:002013-06-12T09:36:03.020-07:00I'm questioning whether you should be using an...I'm questioning whether you should be using an advisor's own advice to evaluate the advisor without first talking to yourself about it, and maybe even talking to him about talking to you. It's like when comedian Steven Wright put the mirror in the copy machine and went back in time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-16510710626519783602013-06-12T08:27:24.905-07:002013-06-12T08:27:24.905-07:00Frank,
I'll go get the log out of my eye so t...Frank,<br /><br />I'll go get the log out of my eye so that I can re-read your post properly.<br /><br />Webster Hunt (Parts Man)https://www.blogger.com/profile/04631846083790242392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-58362851644238386852013-06-12T08:14:02.687-07:002013-06-12T08:14:02.687-07:00That hurts even more.
Stop hurting me.That hurts even more. <br /><br />Stop hurting me.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-72244115610442549312013-06-12T08:04:37.655-07:002013-06-12T08:04:37.655-07:00Frank,
You know I think you're awesome, but e...Frank,<br /><br />You know I think you're awesome, but even a sycophant must occasionally observe some of the laws of decorum.Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-72304728426633701702013-06-12T07:59:11.565-07:002013-06-12T07:59:11.565-07:00Tom, no problem...I didn't want the meta to ve...Tom, no problem...I didn't want the meta to veer off in one of those directions. There's been too much attention paid to some people who want to vent instead of offering meaningful conversation on at least one of those issues.<br /><br />I'll try with an analogy. My youngest son is autistic and tends to take most instructions very literally and tries to follow them to the letter. So when we told him he needed to stay in bed once we tucked him in, he didn't want to get out of bed if he needed to go to the bathroom or if he felt sick. Thus, we had a few incidents and had to talk through our original instruction and add some exceptions to keep him from having some bad emergencies. I read a similar story about parents of an autistic girl where they told her to wait in a box for the bus and she did so even when it was pouring down rain...I picture my son doing the same, but since he is now homesschooled I don't have wo worry about that one ;).<br /><br />The thing is, different situations call for different responses. If my son just wants to get out of bed because he is bored, he needs to tough it out and fall asleep. If he needs to go potty, he needs to get out. There is context to be considered in analyzing whether or not he should get out of bed.<br /><br />In much the same fashion, the context of the matter being considered in the bad report should be part of the discussion here. Is it some type of false teaching by a public speaker? Is it a conference where such a false teacher is embraced? Or is it accusations from within a private group where the only access to information is through other parties and there is no audio/video record of the actual event being reported in the bad report? Who all is affected by the event and how quickly does it need to be addressed? Was it just somebody misstating something or have they actually developed and stated a thought repeatedly and refused to receive any correction/criticism on it? <br /><br />There are plenty of other situations and questions to be considered before deciding to take this type of approach and most of them are actually rhetorical on larger issues. I mean if speaker/pastor X says that salvation by works + faith is good in front of a national audience on repeated occasions, then we shouldn't hesitate to pass the bad report. We should also call him to repentance and pray for him. If somebody says they heard speaker/pastor X say something like that, but we don't ahve the record at hand to see where this was actually stated, that is another matter entirely. Especially if said pastor doesn't ahve a record of doing so previously.<br /><br />That said, I think something like what Tom is speaking of would be more useful, but I also think it would need to be in some book format with many chapters or even volumes to lend itself to proper application. They might not catch every single type of application, but if we're going to speak thoughtfully on the matter, we should try to consider different applications instead of a one-size-fits-all.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13987985549747283669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-86569835687649722892013-06-12T07:51:39.866-07:002013-06-12T07:51:39.866-07:00Tom:
Omitting Dan and myself from your list hurts...Tom:<br /><br />Omitting Dan and myself from your list hurts deeply. Repent.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-66064790356494149472013-06-12T07:50:28.701-07:002013-06-12T07:50:28.701-07:00Johnny -- I didn't say anything but nice thin...Johnny -- I didn't say anything but nice things. A reader who wishes to remain anonymous has said that the essay is problematically self-contradictory. The "bad report" in question is "bad bad reporting", and somehow, this essay doesn't have to take its own advice. It seems to me that advice that does not obey its own ground rules has a fundamental problem -- especially when those ground rules are hung on 1 Cor 13 or some such thing.<br /><br />Web -- no. I posted agreement with the Keller/Powlison essay and reviewed the extended objection of an anonymous reader who found himself (herself?) incredulous toward its point. The objection, as I understand it, is that issuing criticism which, let's face it, stands on an alleged biblical case against all "bad reports" seems to miss a couple of issues:<br /><br />(1) This essay is itself based on a bad report or series of bad reports - or at least, the assumption that they exist. Nobody in particular, of course, is mentioned - but that's at least not any better. It may actually be worse because it's such a broad violation of the first concluding bullet point.<br /><br />(2) How do we even implement the third bullet point? is it ever necessary to do so? When would one do so? What about people who do things notoriously and publicly so that, as it were, even unbelievers could see the breadth and depth of the fault? Don't even unbelievers deserve to see how something like that is set rightside-up again?<br /><br />As I consider the anony reader's complaint, there is another problem that needs to be addressed as well: What's the difference between slander and correction? Is there one? How do we know what it is?<br /><br />The issue really touches a lot of matters, including blogging, watchblogging, and christian conduct. I think it's the right discussion to have -- even if this answer is incomplete (according to the anony reader).<br /><br />We'll do more about it next week.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-43800093906376432002013-06-12T07:41:15.494-07:002013-06-12T07:41:15.494-07:00Robert,
Sorry, I didn't mean "Pull the c...Robert,<br /><br />Sorry, I didn't mean "Pull the comment!" Just commenting on how things might go. But if you think it's better to have it down, keep it down.<br /><br />Actually, your main point (with or without the examples) is a key part of this discussion, and I hope you'll reinstate it in some form.Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-13929531171976820562013-06-12T07:40:11.301-07:002013-06-12T07:40:11.301-07:00…useful fellows like Keller (who has sold a bajill...<i>…useful fellows like Keller (who has sold a bajillion books, and gets to appear on Morning Joe) and Powlison (who has his own place in the pantheon of useful, center-bound Gospelistas in spite of his lesser status as a published author)…</i><br /><br />Here’s my problem with this article: it’s a collaborative piece for an obvious reason: Keller alone would be accused of writing from a perch above evangelicalism and trying to protect the other demigods. The problem is that Powlison is a lesser version of the same thing. Both are in the public eye enough to have a different perspective on this than I do. That is a useful perspective, but it’s more or less the same perspective, so how was their collaboration useful?<br /><br />Here’s what I’d like to see: a collaborative essay on this issue written by Keller, Carl Trueman, Chris Rosebrough, and Pastor Joe Slabotnik from Paducah. Keller would bring the same perspective of someone who is often in the public eye, which is necessary. Trueman would share that perspective, but as someone known for being critical of the demigods. Rosebrough would obviously represent the “some things need to be said” perspective, but as a guy who still has boundaries. And Pastor Joe’s big advantage is that no one has ever heard of him. He doesn’t worry about how scandal will affect the high and mighty, but about how scandal or its neglect might effect sister Betty-Sue Periwinkle in the third pew on the left side. The thing is, I bet those four guys could agree on some things, and it would be interesting to see what those things would be.<br />Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-13575492249985760182013-06-12T07:35:41.713-07:002013-06-12T07:35:41.713-07:00OK...I'll pull the comment just for the sake o...OK...I'll pull the comment just for the sake of keeping on-topic, but you know what i mean.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13987985549747283669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-65250402484824931342013-06-12T07:23:22.075-07:002013-06-12T07:23:22.075-07:00Oh, nice work, Robert. I give it two hours max fo...Oh, nice work, Robert. I give it two hours max for this meta to blow sky-high.Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.com