tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post2949586920334863210..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Open Letter to John PiperPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger100125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-50955314838267695572011-03-01T14:07:09.322-08:002011-03-01T14:07:09.322-08:00Guys, I know this thread is long gone and I don...Guys, I know this thread is long gone and I don't know if you'll even see this comment. But are you going to comment or do a post on Piper holding the next Desiring God Conference at Saddleback with Rick Warren??<br />That seems shocking to me -- even ,ore shocking that just inviting Warren to speak.<br />What do you all think?Debhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13987103463669929569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-3478670186078130182011-02-11T12:55:51.366-08:002011-02-11T12:55:51.366-08:00"So I'm done.""So I'm done."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-15166988476220894762011-02-08T13:13:03.461-08:002011-02-08T13:13:03.461-08:00Karen, Your point has been made, and it is time to...Karen, Your point has been made, and it is time to let it go and see if any change comes from it.<br /><br />Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07714162584787118419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-21997013515145345972011-02-07T22:06:02.733-08:002011-02-07T22:06:02.733-08:00Dear Frank,
Blogger wouldn't let me post this...Dear Frank,<br /><br />Blogger wouldn't let me post this as a complete comment. Too long.I had to divide it up.<br /><br />Because I have to speak up one last time for the retards--those like me, those escaping Charismania, who through a lengthy period of having our minds continually offended so that our hearts might be revealed, are thus a little delayed in our critical thinking skills. We are also, unfortunately, usually overfond of rhetoric.<br /><br />We come with a deep distrust of cessationists, and have been trained to think of them as heartless whitewashed Pharisees, loving their doctrines more than the actual people of God. You and Mr. Phillips delight in skewering our logical deficiencies but do nothing to erase the caricatures we have already formed about you all. <br /><br />The focus here seems to be all about who is going to score FTW, but with your curt dismissals and rude behavior to those without your theological training and vast reasoning skills, you have actually forgotten the most important thing. I forgot today that it wasn't a word game I was playing but that actual hearts and minds were being affected. Please do not forget that some may actually be in dangerous mind-control cults, like IHOP. All kinds of people come to this blog. It seems like you all forget this is not playing a game, but this is for real. Forget about FTW. Win their hearts. Teach them what a wonderful and exciting thing it is to adore the Lord Our God with all of their mind.<br /><br />So I'm done. I have to be. My littlest just now was so upset that I was on the computer again, and that is what matters most to me now. <br /><br />Best Wishes,<br />Karen ButlerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-91306274430711880942011-02-07T21:54:50.924-08:002011-02-07T21:54:50.924-08:00Dear Frank,
"intrigues and backstage manipul...Dear Frank,<br /><br />"intrigues and backstage manipulations, posturing for the audience, and of course, the essential: the overweening ambition of all the principal players."<br /><br />Okay. This was unacceptable--I know nothing of what is going on behind the scenes, and in particular what is motivating any principal character in this sad little comedy, other than myself...so I am sorry for impugning your motives. I have read enough of your posts to know that your motive in blogging is like mine: to build up the Body of Christ, and to glorify our gracious God. And so these remarks were not true, or kind. Please forgive me.<br /><br />My deep fault as a writer really is to get carried away by a metaphor, which can be lovely in the poetic realm, but not in the real. So I overreached here. I am not taking back, however, the charge of hypocrisy. That still stands, and it sticks, I think. But I am done trying to press that point.<br /><br />I am going to get out of the way here, and simply pray for the Holy Spirit to do His work. I have been writing about this for<br />too long, and I am testing my family's patience. Some of us bloggers like our anonymity, and the comfortable hum of our blog statistics. This spike in reader hits makes it so much harder for my second grader to plot the points for math class. So thank you for your patience in hearing me out. Again, I'm sorry for the sinful aspersions I cast on your character. <br /><br />Thank you, <br />Karen ButlerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-936173744327154342011-02-07T17:34:29.632-08:002011-02-07T17:34:29.632-08:00Frank,
Was your intention in writing this post to...Frank,<br /><br />Was your intention in writing this post to be funny? I guess I'm a bit daft.<br /><br />May I ask a serious question? I would truly like to know your thoughts. I have presented this question many times with not one biblical response.<br /><br />At what point does a believer become apostate?<br /><br />Thank you, in advance, for your response.<br /><br />~YvonneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-38471257909389329422011-02-07T14:58:07.265-08:002011-02-07T14:58:07.265-08:00Am I really the only one who found this thread fun...Am I really the only one who found this thread funny?<br /><br />Really?FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-3442262508373524482011-02-07T14:00:55.423-08:002011-02-07T14:00:55.423-08:00Dear Frank,
"I’ll be glad to receive their r...Dear Frank,<br /><br />"I’ll be glad to receive their repentance, and to receive their renewed work in the Spirit it ought to be delivered."<br /><br />The hypocrisy watch continues,and I believe I detect its accustomed flavor of pomposity in your challenge here.<br /><br />"Hilarity will ensue..."<br /><br />Indeed it already has. From where I sit this has the makings of a delicious little farce, with everyone calling everybody else out,intriguesand backstage manipulations, posturing for the audience, and of course, the essential: the overweening ambition of all the principal players.<br /><br />But I think the One who looks from Heaven laughs the most, over all our little washpots He casts His shoe.<br /><br />Chuckling Still,<br />Karen ButlerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-87453079873764704952011-02-05T23:19:05.406-08:002011-02-05T23:19:05.406-08:00Although I find John Piper's preaching biblica...Although I find John Piper's preaching biblical, I have to admit that it baffles me his public endorsement of Rick Warren. Mark Driscoll has also expressed support for Rick Warren. For me purpose driven theology is deeply flawed, it is bad, I wouldn't even call it christian. A line in the sand ought to be drawn that clearly states that seeker sensitive preaching is unscriptural. Not sure why both Piper and Driscoll fail to see this, but regardless it makes you wonder about how sound their theology is.<br /><br />The Daniel plan that Saddleback put out has a lot of good things on diet and exercise, but there's also new age philosophies that these 3 doctors hired by Rick Warren share. Christ as the great physician is nowhere to be found, but reiki, transcendental medietation, and other teachings opposed to christianity are being espoused by these doctors hired by Rick Warren.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15515218349376008994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-39828059286725068702011-02-05T15:06:25.057-08:002011-02-05T15:06:25.057-08:00I think it is time for some of the major Evangelic...I think it is time for some of the major Evangelical leaders to issue an open letter to Rick Warren. Maybe someone who has some serious influence could do this. His new Daniel Plan is utilizing Dr. Oz, a guy whose thinking is in more in line with Oprah than anything Christian. Oz believes in <a href="http://www.bluecollarphilosophy.com/2011/02/why-is-rick-warren-exposing-his-church-to-dr-oz-he-promotes-meditation-and-mass-hypnosis-video.html" rel="nofollow">meditation and mass hypnosis</a>. Is that something Christians should be exposed to?Blue Collar Toddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06405341351988210669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-75849547093430050702011-02-05T11:20:25.715-08:002011-02-05T11:20:25.715-08:00Dear Frank,
But that was a relatively minor gaffe...Dear Frank,<br /><br />But that was a relatively minor gaffe, wasn't it? A misattribution?<br /><br />The substantive charge remains. In the "Butler's Notes" version of the text, it would have read something like "you are guilty of blatant hypocrisy in your rebuke of Michael Horton." <br /><br />If you are confused about why I think your blogmetas encourage unkindness and unhelpful competitions for consumers of scandal, then read my comments meta. Don't worry. I set clear boundaries for what is acceptable there, and I have edited entries that don't meet my standards of what I let be said in my kitchen.<br />Your ears might burn,but only a a little. <br /><br />But I pray reading uncursorily would bring forth fruits of repentance, and this charge is not just for you, but DJP, too: like Play Nice. Like share your toys with those not so abundantly blessed. Since you two are such strong big kids, help the younger and weaker ones. Don't make fun of the retard. <br /><br />Sit on the think bench for a little bit. At least five minutes. And please don't talk with your mouth so full of that nasty camel.<br /><br />affectionately yours,<br />Karen Butler<br /><br />DJP: Don't worry about it. I'm sure your mother thinks you're adorable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-16473275546759556062011-02-05T05:57:43.353-08:002011-02-05T05:57:43.353-08:00Dr. John Piper
Bethlehem BC
Minneapolis, MN
Inre: ...Dr. John Piper<br />Bethlehem BC<br />Minneapolis, MN<br />Inre: HOMILETICS<br /><br />Dear Dr. Piper,<br /><br />DECAF. Also: say it, don't spray it.<br /><br />Warm regards,<br />AZTexanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-86619356028655488102011-02-04T16:39:12.242-08:002011-02-04T16:39:12.242-08:00Robert,
Sorry, I didn't see your question unt...Robert,<br /><br />Sorry, I didn't see your question until I had nearly logged off, and then my son's hair was violating Scripture in that it had started to be what pertaineth to a woman, and in obedience I cut it.<br /><br />And no, of course Paul was not crusty in his sharp denunciation of the Judaizers in Galatians. The little children were being stumbled, and the Gospel was being perverted. Things worth dying for.<br /><br />And I feel that the things I would argue over are the things I would die for. Not Romans 14 things.<br /><br />And in defense of DeYoung, the quote about what is crusty is <br /><br />"a demeanor where being Calvinist or paedobaptist or inerrantist (three things I am gladly) are put on like armor or wielded like weapons, when they are meant to be the warm glow of a Christian whose core radiates with love for Christ and the gospel."<br /><br />And if even the truth of inerrancy is wielded like a weapon without that the blazing hot center of love, it becomes a sounding gong, the sound of a clanging crusty Christian.<br /><br />My husband is home, so I have to go. I hope that helps.<br /><br />Karen ButlerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-90165132944744775972011-02-04T13:54:10.786-08:002011-02-04T13:54:10.786-08:00Your'e not trying to lure me into some strangl...Your'e not trying to lure me into some strangling web of self-defense, are you, Mr.Turk?<br /><br />It has a very sour taste in the mouth doesn't it? It was the flavor of Weltschmerz mixed with sarcasm, and it does not satisfy anyone who tastes it. The two should never be together on the same spoon.<br /><br />So I'm just going to emulate your excellent example and say, I was wrong in that quote, and I'm sorry to say you gloated, or even to predict that you might.<br /><br />really humbly this time,<br />Karen ButlerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-45666550915152787332011-02-04T12:15:59.678-08:002011-02-04T12:15:59.678-08:00I find the humility of Karen Butler has a funny fl...I find the humility of Karen Butler has a funny flavor.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-83389512278600946872011-02-04T11:59:27.098-08:002011-02-04T11:59:27.098-08:00Morris,
point taken, I was just saying that the co...Morris,<br />point taken, I was just saying that the comparison is a matter of opinion. Or preference.<br /><br />Especially now that I also heard MacArthur say that Phyl is the one to blame. =)Elaine Bittencourthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09918056018284532138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-942748091964674292011-02-04T11:38:50.275-08:002011-02-04T11:38:50.275-08:00Well, that's not right. I know for a fact that...Well, that's not right. I know for a fact that Frank Turk is a totally lovable, cuddly fuzzball. So that would mean...<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />.c8DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-7892501936859251192011-02-04T11:37:43.053-08:002011-02-04T11:37:43.053-08:00Dan,
Some of the commenters on this blog would be...Dan,<br /><br />Some of the commenters on this blog would be in agreement that statement.Morris Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18083884122271855154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-15184502264176877242011-02-04T11:33:40.459-08:002011-02-04T11:33:40.459-08:00And yet I've heard that Phil is also totally l...And yet <i>I've</i> heard that Phil is also totally lovable, and that the meanness all emanates from you and Frank. Now look what you've done!Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-56761901566169730492011-02-04T11:08:55.598-08:002011-02-04T11:08:55.598-08:00If I remember hearing him right, I think it's ...If I remember hearing him right, I think it's John MacArthur's position that he's <i>totally</i> lovable, and that the only problem is the mean things Phil Johnson keeps putting in his mouth.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-74298676299842217322011-02-04T11:01:09.867-08:002011-02-04T11:01:09.867-08:00Elaine,
I did not say that John wasn't lovabl...Elaine,<br /><br />I did not say that John wasn't lovable, just that he is not as lovable as Piper. Because John tells the truth, and speaks out on issues and people, he has sharper edges than Piper. John is well loved by many, myself included, but his sharper edges keep him from being as lovable to many.Morris Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18083884122271855154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-11256522689384822042011-02-04T08:44:14.835-08:002011-02-04T08:44:14.835-08:00@ Morris.
"John isn't as lovable as Piper...@ Morris.<br />"John isn't as lovable as Piper".<br /><br />Matter of opinion. I believe MacArthur is loveable. It might be that people just like to love people who are easily loveable. I love MacArthur's boldness, for example. He doesn't shy away from difficult/controversial issues, he knows exactly Whom he serves and what he's been called to. I appreciate that. His boldness doesn't come without costs, I am sure.<br /><br />I don't pretend to know MacArthur at all, but this is the verse that I think of when I think of his personal ministry:<br />"For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for I am under compulsion; for woe is me if I do not preach the gospel."<br /><br />It takes a godly man to preach the Gospel. It takes a great godly man, with a lifetime commitment, to preach the Gospel boldly.<br /><br />Grace and peace,<br />E.Elaine Bittencourthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09918056018284532138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-35992271162798964112011-02-04T05:53:12.159-08:002011-02-04T05:53:12.159-08:00Karen,
I pose to you the same question I did on t...Karen,<br /><br />I pose to you the same question I did on the comments over at TGC. Was Paul being crusty when he wrote Galatians? Are there not some issues where we must make a stand for the truth? Kevin DeYoung included inerrancy in his "crusty" statement, and I surely hope that he will find a way to account for that...because without inerrancy of Scripture we have no authority and no real idea of Who Jesus is. That is because John 1 says that Jesus is the Word. So either Jesus is inerrant or He is fallible. I don't see how a Christian can be of the latter opinion.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13987985549747283669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51930387781629554662011-02-03T13:28:01.959-08:002011-02-03T13:28:01.959-08:00Dear Frank,
First, I owe you an apology for the b...Dear Frank,<br /><br />First, I owe you an apology for the bit about gloating and playing contact sports like a big boy. You're right, and I won't even complain that it was the confusing way Dr. Clark conflated your objections and CT's, or that I was distracted by his crass merchandising because I have ADD. But I won't. <br /><br />Because, although it is tempting to want to make excuses, I will follow your good model of an apology, and say you're right. It was perfectly fair game to quote him, and for me to even ascribe such a silly phrase to a man with your rich skills with words--what was I thinking? <br /><br />Go ahead and gloat. You have every right.<br /><br />I am going to have to withdraw my offer to do an exegesis of my text.<br />I really haven't the time, and frankly, I also just don't have the heart. This whole thing has started to make me feel very sad, especially after fielding the comments stream this morning. <br /><br />Though, Providentially, everything you could wish to know about what I meant to say in my Open Letter is right there in the comments field.<br /><br />There you will find a shark circling, little children stumbling,the ministry of the rest of the Body of Christ made to feel inferior to that of the ginormous brains. <br /><br />And as for "brain damage"--there will be lots of damage done to the hearts and minds of those who continually engage in this crustiness. Kevin DeYoung described what it looks like better than I could. <br /><br /> <br />sincerely,<br />Karen ButlerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-35734226234682359942011-02-02T23:09:42.240-08:002011-02-02T23:09:42.240-08:00Bravo, Frank, bravo.
~SuzanneBravo, Frank, bravo.<br /><br />~SuzannenorthWordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00938074261657256560noreply@blogger.com