tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post3574586210353816992..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: You say you want to be a teacher? Oy!Phil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-11383649676782384422007-04-15T21:27:00.000-07:002007-04-15T21:27:00.000-07:00"Do you mean that a pastor is always a teacher, bu...<I>"Do you mean that a pastor is always a teacher, but not just a teacher? If so, we don't disagree at all..."</I><BR/><BR/>Yes. Thanks, Dan.<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>TerryTerry Rayburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00888533194435826837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-45599033031429718672007-04-15T08:14:00.000-07:002007-04-15T08:14:00.000-07:00Thanks, Terry; very good points.Just for clarifica...Thanks, Terry; very good points.<BR/><BR/>Just for clarification on your opening distinction:<BR/><BR/>Do you mean that a pastor is always a teacher, but not just a teacher? If so, we don't disagree at all (and I think your final words point in that direction).<BR/><BR/>Or do you mean that one may be a pastor <I>without</I> being a teacher? In that case, we'd see the role differently.<BR/><BR/>(I'm using a narrower sense of "teacher" here, as I think you are as well. It could be argued that leading, counseling, loving, example-setting and many other activities are all forms of "teaching," but that isn't what we're talking about at the moment.)DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-88834268513222928452007-04-15T07:25:00.000-07:002007-04-15T07:25:00.000-07:00Dan wrote: "To be a pastor *means* to be a teacher...Dan wrote: <I>"To be a pastor *means* to be a teacher of the Word of God..."</I><BR/><BR/>I would say, "To be a pastor *includes* being a teacher of the Word of God."<BR/><BR/>And even then, that teaching should go well beyond the pulpit. The essential meaning of "pastor" is "shepherd", not "teacher", and shepherding rightly includes at the least knowing one's sheep by name.<BR/><BR/>Many pastors think if they've cut straight the Word for the week, and intervened in pastoral emergencies, and managed the corporation, they've done their dutey. But the people often are left as sheep without a shepherd, aching holes in their hearts because their shepherds don't even know them, let alone truly fellowship with them.<BR/><BR/>This aching hole in the hearts of many is part of the impetus behind "movements" like Emerging Church, but the problem persists as ECers built their own mega-churches with a star in the pulpit, and more sheep without a shepherd.<BR/><BR/>To be a pastor surely includes teaching the Word, but if it stops there, that's just a teacher, not a pastor.Terry Rayburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00888533194435826837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-19290924040825801552007-04-15T05:30:00.000-07:002007-04-15T05:30:00.000-07:00Oh my... II Opinions!!! Whatever happened to I Opi...Oh my... <BR/><BR/>II Opinions!!! Whatever happened to I Opinions? And how many books of Opinions are there?Daniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-81629811208534438852007-04-14T11:25:00.000-07:002007-04-14T11:25:00.000-07:00Coram Deo said, "in fact the professing church has...Coram Deo said, "in fact the professing church has been dumbed down so far and so long by ungodly, compromised church growth apostate leadership..." It is not just the church growth pastors, but pastors in general. The lack of good solid biblical preaching and teaching, both from the pulpit and in the Sunday school classrooms is just as much a culprit. <BR/><BR/>This is exactly what Dan's post is referring to. Too many, way too many people have taught and are teaching that have absolutely no business teaching. Many fit the I Timothy 1:6-7 example. Most churches do not have any method for finding, developing, and training teachers. They mostly look for people to fill the class they have formed instead of forming the class around a gifted and qualified individual. So you have the lame and the blind leading the lame and the blind. Ignorance is pooled and opinion reigns and everyone's opinion is just a valid as the person's next to them. So instead of the Scripture being opened and expounded they all quote from the book of II Opinions.<BR/><BR/>The majority of pastors do not preach/teach expositionally and as a result recycle most of their sermons under different names. The topics change, but the subject matter stays the same. The congregation gets the same thing over and over and so never grows past where their pastor is.<BR/><BR/>Churches that hold to the inerrancy of the word are just as guilty of this as the worst main-line liberal church. This issue is pandemic in the church and is the main reason our churches are full of biblically illiterate members.Morris Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18083884122271855154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-23884794593325236532007-04-14T08:17:00.000-07:002007-04-14T08:17:00.000-07:00Coram Deo:I have to agree with your statements re:...Coram Deo:<BR/><BR/>I have to agree with your statements re: the Mormon and JW missonal (!) types being far more well-versed in their doctrines than the ordinary garden-variety Christian.<BR/><BR/>And I think this <I>does</I> relate to the original post - in that they, the ones who teach these false and damning doctrines, will be held to a stricter judgement. Using our speech to influence others spiritually - for Christ or against Him - puts us to a higher standard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-3306346621686800402007-04-13T22:45:00.000-07:002007-04-13T22:45:00.000-07:00"In simple English words not using Latin words fro...<I>"In simple English words not using Latin words from Reformed terminology - yes, I believe we are born sinners, we need a redeemer to rescue and redeem us from condemnation, we repent and put faith in the Redeemer Jesus, who is our substitionary atonement for sin, we are then justified by faith and made righteous in His sight through Jesus and are sanctified by the Spirit. Is this what you are asking me what I believe?"</I><BR/><BR/>My sacred-underwear tailored Mormon neighbor would wholeheartedly agree with the statement above.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately he's changed all the <I>meanings</I> of those words to fit within his false theological construct. I wonder if the emergents consider the LDS and JW's to be Christ followers? Has anyone publicly come out one way or the other on this subject from the emergent camp? It seems to me that many, if not most, of the emergent types are so phobic of <B>absolutes</B> that I wonder if they'd have the stomach to tell a Mormon Missionary or a Jehovah's Witness that they're just plain <B>wrong</B> and that their "truth" - so called - is actually a lie from the pit of hell?<BR/><BR/>One thing (among many) that concerns me about the overarching <I>uncertainty principle</I> espoused and embraced by the emergents lies in the stark contrast between their "Generous Orthodoxy" and the slam-dunk false-doctrinal adherence of groups like the Mormons and JW's. Unlike the emergent cult's <I>"You're down with God? Sweet, bro!"</I> approach, the LDS & JW cultists I've witnessed to are so well trained in their understanding of their cult's version of the scriptures and their false system of faith plus works that they'd turn the average professing Christian into a spiritual pretzel in about five minutes flat.<BR/><BR/>Please understand I'm not trying to hijack the thread, I'm just curious to know how the emergents with their dearth of doctrine are equipped to bear witness of the true Jesus Christ to the kingdom of the cults, or if they're even interested in trying.Coram Deohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03504564435400500996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-52838191779502178322007-04-13T22:16:00.000-07:002007-04-13T22:16:00.000-07:00"an historical perspective grants one is the knowl...<I>"an historical perspective grants one is the knowledge that the history of church fairly bristles with men (and women) who have couched deadly, damning error in fine and lovely words. Central, essential doctrines have been and are being denied and perverted by the nicest folks, in the sweetest words."</I><BR/><BR/>In my view the point made above easily ranks among the greatest problems and weaknesses within the modern professing church; namely that there's little or no understanding of church history.<BR/><BR/>Furthermore there's little or no understanding of basic doctrines or of the basic tenets of the Christian faith itself.<BR/><BR/>In fact the professing church has been generationally dumbed down so far and for so long by ungodly, compromised, church-growth apostate leadership that their hapless sheep have no scriptural or historical depth of root in themselves and are therefore highly susceptible to the doctrines of demons.<BR/><BR/>When a shepherd fails to properly feed his flock and fails to provide them with adequate protection you can be certain that those sheep will be consumed with disease and rent by ravening wolves.<BR/><BR/>Yet sadly too many within the professing church, even - and sometimes especially! - within its leadership are quick to "pooh-pooh" this type of complaint away and dismiss it as hyperbole or perhaps as unfounded generalizations but the truth of the matter is inescapable and plain for those with eyes to see.<BR/><BR/>It's a well worn cliché, but those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it. The enemy's bag of tricks and the hearts of men are no different today than they were in the garden and whether we fancy our world as modern, post-modern, Christian or post-Christian it's still God's footstool and the fullness thereof is His.<BR/><BR/>Let's never lose sight of our eternal hope of glory in the midst of our temporal struggles, nor let us forget the simple fact that unregenerate man is a corrupted and twisted image bearer who is in desperate need of a Savior, the risen Lord Jesus Christ.<BR/><BR/><I>For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.</I> <BR/>(Ephesians 6:12)Coram Deohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03504564435400500996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-29798977036397877572007-04-13T21:27:00.000-07:002007-04-13T21:27:00.000-07:00Thank you, Dan.Thank you, Dan.Matthew Carrollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02030076368305696495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-84030887863706938912007-04-13T20:50:00.000-07:002007-04-13T20:50:00.000-07:00Dan,Thank you for this sobering reminder of the tr...Dan,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for this sobering reminder of the truly awesome responsibility of teaching the word of God.<BR/><BR/>This post is a "keeper".<BR/><BR/>Wyeth DuncanWyeth Duncanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07037542472866679987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-32252622419485310432007-04-13T19:41:00.000-07:002007-04-13T19:41:00.000-07:00Thank you for this post, it was excellent.Thank you for this post, it was excellent.Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13858057932102156264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-89279552119174470862007-04-13T19:02:00.000-07:002007-04-13T19:02:00.000-07:00Great post brother.Great post brother.risen_soulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13845841110206577271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-57162380213476647822007-04-13T18:07:00.000-07:002007-04-13T18:07:00.000-07:00Dan, great reminder here. The context of James 3:1...Dan, great reminder here. The context of James 3:1 is the use of the tongue, and the highest use of that organ and the gift of speech that God has given is to employ it in proclaiming the Word of God to His people. If, as James goes on to say in the rest of chap 3, that our tongues are wicked and full of deadly poison, it should give us pause to think and examine ourselves before seeking the role or office of teacher or preacher.<BR/><BR/>I want my son to read this post, he's in Bible college (TMC) and will be doing an internship in our church here in Nebraska this summer, trying out some teaching and preaching.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-87662100647820012632007-04-13T16:48:00.000-07:002007-04-13T16:48:00.000-07:00Dan,Where you say, "liberalism and modernism wrigg...Dan,<BR/><BR/>Where you say, "liberalism and modernism wriggled their way into control of the mainstream denominations", and I would also say we can even see an interesting parallel to this developing right now within the broader evangelical camp itself.<BR/><BR/>And I sure agree with you here as you point out, "This was accomplished by the invaders' duplicity and deceit, and by their preying on the gullibility and naïveté of the church." In fact, this is exactly what Dr. Walter Martin talked about in his lectures on what he called the "Cult of Liberal Theology".<BR/><BR/>In my view of God's Word and looking at the Emerging Church movement, I would have to agree with Dr. John MacArthur that we are seeing a new liberalism attempting to do the same thing right now. A "post" liberalism with its "post" modern theology. Which would be why I think your post here today is so timely to encourage our pastor-teachers.<BR/><BR/>Because as you said my brother: "an historical perspective grants one is the knowledge that the history of church fairly bristles with men (and women) who have couched deadly, damning error in fine and lovely words. Central, essential doctrines have been and are being denied and perverted by the nicest folks, in the sweetest words."Ken Silvahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01390319268507275969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-85315609735992677432007-04-13T16:30:00.000-07:002007-04-13T16:30:00.000-07:00I fully agree that James 3:1 is not considered nea...I fully agree that James 3:1 is not considered nearly enough!!<BR/><BR/>But I'm wondering how Hebrews 5:12 fits into this?<BR/><BR/><I>For though by this time you ought to be teachers</I>Bretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05174099346735638647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-47421180813326076952007-04-13T16:23:00.000-07:002007-04-13T16:23:00.000-07:00It may well apply to emergents.But honestly, the h...It may well apply to emergents.<BR/><BR/>But honestly, the historical example that was most in my mind as I wrote was (very roughly) the 1850s-1950s, when liberalism and modernism wriggled their way into control of the mainstream denominations. This was accomplished by the invaders' duplicity and deceit, and by their preying on the gullibility and naïveté of the church.<BR/><BR/>But as they say: the more things change, the more they remain the same.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-37780897745928848602007-04-13T15:50:00.000-07:002007-04-13T15:50:00.000-07:00Dan,Thank you for this great post. I really like w...Dan,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for this great post. I really like what you say here: "A teacher in the church of Christ is meant to get up and say, 'Here is what the Word of God teaches.'"<BR/><BR/>Not only is this largely lacking in the Church today but it is the antithesis of the Emergent Church idea of embracing mystery and uncertainty as virtues. Rather one might conclude it is actually an unwillingness to take a stand on their part.Ken Silvahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01390319268507275969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-24217183552217816222007-04-13T15:23:00.000-07:002007-04-13T15:23:00.000-07:00mike,I responded to you earlier, but my comments t...mike,<BR/><BR/>I responded to you earlier, but my comments to you got deleted, just so you are aware.<BR/><BR/>-TouchstoneTouchstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03733806892886921425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-79341300022489699192007-04-13T15:20:00.000-07:002007-04-13T15:20:00.000-07:00Let's stick to the subject, folks. *crickets*Let's stick to the subject, folks. <BR/><BR/><BR/>*crickets*Sled Doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12810818221184023798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-55269192039102724162007-04-13T13:38:00.000-07:002007-04-13T13:38:00.000-07:00General announcement:Rule 3 is still in effect. S...General announcement:<BR/><BR/>Rule 3 is still in effect. Specifically, for this thread: <BR/><BR/>1) All puerile off-topic jokes and other egregious violations of James 3:1-2 will be summarily deleted without further explanation; and <BR/><BR/>2) Remarks that are merely carry-overs from yesterday's closed <BR/>thread will also be deemed off-topic in today's meta.<BR/><BR/>Let's stick to the subject, folks.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-63903766948490610852007-04-13T13:01:00.000-07:002007-04-13T13:01:00.000-07:00Matt,Absolutly. As I said, I didn't know. I know t...Matt,<BR/>Absolutly. As I said, I didn't know. I know that sol seemed to think I was just "counting questions" without giving any answerrs or something to that effect. <BR/>PeaceJoe Martinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18041553399436005188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-71764929199359881222007-04-13T12:57:00.001-07:002007-04-13T12:57:00.001-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.David Ruddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12572780147564110421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-85248317674490459662007-04-13T12:57:00.000-07:002007-04-13T12:57:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.David Ruddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12572780147564110421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-58747982333885748182007-04-13T12:55:00.000-07:002007-04-13T12:55:00.000-07:00Could he be referring to fools questioning Dan Kim...Could he be referring to fools questioning Dan Kimball?<BR/><BR/>Daniel said...<BR/><BR/> I think it was Spurgeon who said, "fools can raise more objections in an hour than wise men can answer in seven years"<BR/><BR/> Pastors have to be ready for that too.matbathomehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02863237356298764226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-27121178626788409772007-04-13T12:53:00.000-07:002007-04-13T12:53:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.David Ruddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12572780147564110421noreply@blogger.com