tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post4355226328796722448..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Lament of the pathetic preacher — and what we all must learn from itPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-36148121240729568512015-10-11T19:27:37.496-07:002015-10-11T19:27:37.496-07:00The preachers responsibility is to sow or water th...The preachers responsibility is to sow or water the seed, which is the Word of God, but the preacher doesn't get the luxury of choosing what type of ground the seed lands on. The Word will accomplish that where unto it is sent. Paul plants and Apollos waters, God gives the increase.<br /><br />In His Service,<br /><br />Franklin WhittenburgF Whittenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01604292281555282318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51514754678132507972015-10-09T11:40:28.942-07:002015-10-09T11:40:28.942-07:00This post - this actual post, written right here -...This post - this actual post, written right here - seems to be addressing two ditches. On the one side you have the Bible as magic spellbook, where you say the right words for the incantation and - BAM - regeneration! BAM - sanctification! (Just make sure you <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgvXtexdgAM" rel="nofollow">say the right words</a>.) Confidence in the inherent power of God's word can almost sort of resemble a Word Faith Lite - I said the right words, why did the right results not come?<br /><br />The other ditch is the same one that comes up whenever God's sovereignty is involved - the fatalism ditch. If God brings the results, why does it matter what I preach? And yet, as with evangelism, our duty is to faithfully proclaim. It is surely a sign of our sinful arrogance that if we can't control the results, we don't care about the means.<br /><br />I'd note also the temptation to manipulative means that arises. As Paul could attest, faithful straightforward preaching of the same message could produce a great harvest one place, and a stoning somewhere else. If only there was some way to guarantee the results we want! And so the foolish message of the cross gets dressed up with (and eventually replaced by) <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHihRYsVNMw" rel="nofollow">dancing stormtroopers</a> and <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lle9I4rQg90" rel="nofollow">free Mountain Dew</a> and <a href="http://www.alittleleaven.com/" rel="nofollow">shenanigans beyond your worst imagination</a>.<br /><br />The remedy, as pointed out so well, is faithful ministry of the word as God commands, which God and God alone can make effective. The reminder to those of us in the congregation is vital. Are we content with faithful ministry, even if we don't see the results we would like, even if it brings suffering? Are we committed to pray as Paul sought prayer for his ministry?<br /><br />Good stuff. You should write more.trogdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452996348717802065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-89818378906939238632015-10-09T10:44:52.661-07:002015-10-09T10:44:52.661-07:00I have greatly benefited from THIS post this week ...I have greatly benefited from THIS post this week in that I have prayed for my pastor more than usual and also reached out to see how he was doing without asking him to do anything for me. I feel like I am not taking seriously enough the warfare he is facing while overseeing my soul. Hopefully, I will be reminded of this frequently so I don't forget the lesson learned!Michael Coughlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01151414777657994736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-76985862386731158402015-10-09T10:41:08.034-07:002015-10-09T10:41:08.034-07:00Yes, a second comment discernibly on the original ...Yes, a second comment discernibly on the original post would be nice.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-44947756310641264782015-10-09T10:39:55.331-07:002015-10-09T10:39:55.331-07:00The "ridiculous end times scenario" was ...The "ridiculous end times scenario" was just in the US of A, spewing heretical bile in all his Antichristal glory.<br /><br />And now back to the current post...trogdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452996348717802065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-81864217542784940532015-10-09T10:37:01.569-07:002015-10-09T10:37:01.569-07:00Frank,
[I pray] that they may be one, just as We ...Frank,<br /><br />[I pray] that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they "may be perfected" in unity. This is clearly an ongoing and future desire. It speaks to advancing toward a goal. Rightly understood, I see nothing wrong in using the same means of expression as our Lord.Roger Ballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07081209000380867330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-34918599920385905232015-10-09T10:13:08.085-07:002015-10-09T10:13:08.085-07:00I'm not the one who said this, Roger:
" ...I'm not the one who said this, Roger:<br /><br />" I believe that organizational unity, and even its public declarations within movements and denominations, is a mandatory obligation to the rest of Christ's body so that we can more readily come to the perfect unity of faith."<br /><br />You are. <br /><br />Have a nice day.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-10101832234943488752015-10-09T07:34:49.054-07:002015-10-09T07:34:49.054-07:00Frank,
I don't believe that total sanctificat...Frank,<br /><br />I don't believe that total sanctification within this life for the body of Christ will be any more fully realized than it will be for the Christian. Nevertheless, this is the goal for both Christian and Church.<br /><br />It sounds like you're trying to dismiss the total obvious with a ridiculous end times scenario in the here and now (where is "your" biblical support). I do however believe that your scenario will be fully realized through Christ in the hereafter. For now, we are still working toward that goal. We are ever advancing to that state which will be fully realized through Christ who is taking our present chaos and turning it into a thing of beauty.Roger Ballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07081209000380867330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-89263755646036944602015-10-08T14:29:01.060-07:002015-10-08T14:29:01.060-07:00And people ask why I don't write more often.
...And people ask why I don't write more often.<br /><br />smhDJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80827381258007252422015-10-08T14:17:31.853-07:002015-10-08T14:17:31.853-07:00Roger - the inly reason I let your comment out of ...Roger - the inly reason I let your comment out of the filter was that I think it demonstrates exactly what is wrong with most theological reasoning: opinion and preferences elevated above biblical truth and serious deliberation.<br /><br />In the view you are outlining here, only a church with one leader who is obeyed without any room for his fallibility or the love of other people could be the true church. That's not at all what the Bible indicates, and you will do well to think harder about it.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-49283798496801929422015-10-08T11:43:10.618-07:002015-10-08T11:43:10.618-07:00This is a comment for Phil Johnson's post, Uni...This is a comment for Phil Johnson's post, Unity, Not Uniformity. If you want to file this for reference, that's fine.<br /><br />"Faithful evangelical Protestants believe God is answering that prayer of Christ even now. We enjoy an amazing degree of unity with one another, "despite" our denominational distinctions. In other words, the kind of spiritual unity Christ prayed for does exist in the true body of Christ worldwide "despite" denominational barriers. Our Lord's prayer for His church has not gone unanswered."<br /><br />This statement seems contradictory. The first sentence gives what the rest of the statement takes away. This overall understanding fails to take into account the means by which our maturity and therefore unity is being brought to bear in the here and now. <br /><br />Where is there room for the already/not yet theme that the Bible sets forth within an understanding that corporeal organization is at odds with spiritual unity? "Despite" our distinctions? It sounds like the Holy Spirit's hands are tied until we all get to heaven. This also sounds like a lame attempt to rescue Jesus' prayer because it isn't happening fast enough, or in a way we can readily see and understand. <br /><br />I believe the body of Christ can best be understood as a single mind with many competing viewpoints. This mind is being sanctified daily, not despite these competing viewpoints, but because of them and through them. As time goes by, the understanding of this mind becomes clearer and clearer as thoughts are sorted out. How are "you" being sanctified? <br /><br />Therefore, until we all do get to heaven I believe that organizational unity, and even its public declarations within movements and denominations, is a mandatory obligation to the rest of Christ's body so that we can more readily come to the perfect unity of faith.Roger Ballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07081209000380867330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-89440642922973364452015-10-06T11:17:29.450-07:002015-10-06T11:17:29.450-07:00I'm obviously not a preacher but your post rem...I'm obviously not a preacher but your post reminded me of a quote from Grace Abounding to the Chiefest of Sinners by John Bunyan. This passage jumps to my mind when I go to hear some preachers. Bunyan is describing his early preaching here:<br /><br />"In my preaching of the Word, I took <br />special notice of this one thing, namely, that the <br />Lord did lead me to being where his Word <br />begins with sinners; that is, to condemn all <br />flesh, and to open and allege that the curse of <br />God, by the law, doth belong to, and lay hold <br />on all men as they come into the world, because <br />of sin. Now this part of my work I fulfilled with <br />great sense; for the terrors of the law, and <br />guilt for my transgressions, lay heavy on my <br />conscience. I preached what I felt, what I <br />smartingly did feel, even that under which my <br />pour soul did groan and tremble to <br />astonishment. <br /><br />Indeed I have been as one sent to them <br />from the dead; I went myself in chains to <br />preach to them in chains; and carried that fire <br />in my own conscience that I persuaded them to <br />beware of. I can truly say, and that without <br />dissembling, that when I have been to preach, I <br />have gone full of guilt and terror even to the <br />pulpit door, and there it hath been taken off, <br />and I have been at liberty in my mind until I <br />have done my work, and then immediately, <br />even before I could get down the pulpit stairs, I <br />have been as bad as I was before; yet God <br />carried me on, but surely with a strong hand, <br />for neither guilt or hell could take me off my <br />work.Mizz Harpyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18220764076008867988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-59896439685839525032015-10-06T10:29:13.646-07:002015-10-06T10:29:13.646-07:00I agree with this to a point, but what if you were...I agree with this to a point, but what if you were to preach a message that employed no tone, no inflection, and no emotion whatsoever. You would probably still have converts, but God is much more likely to work through a message that employs these human elements. He is also very likely to work through providential events and other human propensities. It's not that He has to do this but He stoops to our level and operates from within our framework---a framework that He orchestrated. It's only when these elements become confused with the saving agency of God do problems arise.<br /><br />This is also the problem I have with the label of "New Calvinism." <br /><br />I don't believe that teachers such as RC Sproul, John Piper, and others should cringe at the label New Calvinism. New Calvinism has nothing to do with the teachings of Reformed theology. It does not refer to a Calvinism that has recently been altered or that is now being understood in a new and different light. If this were the case then it wouldn't be called New Calvinism. It would be called New Sproulism, or New Mohlerism, or whatever.<br /><br />Instead, New Calvinism refers to the "return" of classic Protestant orthodoxy. It refers to a "return" to the teachings of the Protestant Reformation. It refers to a "return" of Reformed theology.<br /><br />I see a kind of logical fallacy in understanding the "new" in terms of the doctrine itself. This label really has nothing to do with the adoption of novelty in worldly categories. It is an acknowledgment of a new and recent work of the Holy Spirit to bring sound teaching back to the church. And this "is" something new.<br /><br />If God has seen fit to bless the church in this way, and has provided excellent teachers to perform the task, then why not show our gratitude and enthusiasm through this labeling?<br /><br />This would not be for the purpose of helping God out and trying to keep His church from going off the rails by human effort, but because people have always needed a kind of banner to rally under, or label. It is part of our human nature and there is nothing wrong with it. This is how it came to exist to begin with. And this is why God was able to use it so effectively.Roger Ballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07081209000380867330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51726507367411289512015-10-06T09:24:35.765-07:002015-10-06T09:24:35.765-07:00Wow that was really great to read. I'm overwhe...Wow that was really great to read. I'm overwhelmed by my prayerlessness in regards to this! Thanks for the needed correction! Michael Coughlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01151414777657994736noreply@blogger.com