tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post4431030218394294752..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Pre-bird (or pre-pizza) blog postPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-47502603481571580182007-11-22T06:42:00.000-08:002007-11-22T06:42:00.000-08:00Is it better stewardship for a church send 1 missi...Is it better stewardship for a church send 1 missionary from the west or use the same financial investment to assist the church body in foreign countries to send many of their own missionaries who already are part of the society that they are evangelizing?<BR/>And wouldn't mission agencies have a role to play in assisting that process?James Joycehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15983848193844746369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-81784983217366912452007-11-21T22:52:00.000-08:002007-11-21T22:52:00.000-08:00Happy to hear about your child.Diverse means for d...Happy to hear about your child.<BR/><BR/>Diverse means for diverse missions. I think you're right on this: the local church is the primary teaching arm. Seminaries are for professional training in more technical fields not necessarily available on the local level. Missions training is not one of those technical fields,, necessisarily, in my estimation. I don't, in fact, think that missionaries can be trained, they're called. Sounds to hyper-spiritual, I know. But, I just have to put my stock in what the Scripture says about callings.<BR/><BR/>That said, cooperative effort is necessary for a world missions effort, and for local missions. Remembering that Carey was funded and sent by an orgaization, of which he was in the course of events, its promotional founder. It was not a local church.<BR/><BR/>This was written by George Smith speaking of Carey: "So Carey projected the first organisation which England had seen for missions to all the human race outside of Christendom; and his project, while necessarily requiring a Society to carry it out, as coming from an "independent" Church, provided that every member of every congregation should take a part to the extent of fervent and united prayer, and of an average subscription of a penny a week."<BR/><BR/>Locate here: <BR/><BR/>http://www.biblebelievers.com/carey/Carey2.html<BR/><BR/>with an outline of Carey's vision for a Missions Society.<BR/><BR/>Indeed Carey believed it to be the local Baptist Congregation's responsibility to send missionaries. At the same time he understood the need. It is more than the planting of a church, it is the planting of the Gospel ministry repleat with schools of all kinds for the edification of the discovered disciples.<BR/><BR/>If you step back out of the foreign mission field and look at your own church, the question then must be asked just how has it fulfilled the missionary vision of Carey. You see, your church is most likely the result of his efforts, as well as others. Have you fulfilled the vision of schools, full discipleship programs that will fully equip the disciples of Christ with all the life skills that are necessary for sending the next missionary out?<BR/><BR/>I think one of the greatest mistakes of the modern missions movement, is that it does not fully equip the local assembly. And, because of that, the local assembly doesn't think it is its job to equip its disciples to be missionaries. We send our money to the collective, but it is not necessarily sent back to us. But, we are the mission, and the progenitors of missionaries.<BR/><BR/>"14. As each church, and all the members of it, are bound to pray continually for the good and prosperity of all the churches of Christ, in all places, and upon all occasions to further every one within the bounds of their places and callings, in the exercise of their gifts and graces, so the churches, when planted by the providence of God, so as they may enjoy opportunity and advantage for it, ought to hold communion among themselves, for their peace, increase of love, and mutual edification."<BR/><BR/>The idea of mutual edification, our common union does not, and should not mean that sending churches or societies are some how greater than that which is founded. To the contrary, we should be looking to make that which was birthed as mature as the parent that conceived it. Parents save up for their children, and thereby, a wise man leaves an inheritance to his children's children.Strong Towerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13834108238546908018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-32062284830866959802007-11-21T17:11:00.000-08:002007-11-21T17:11:00.000-08:00Phil has, of course, never tried it, but for a guy...<I>Phil has, of course, never tried it, but for a guy who says he will eat anything he sure is a fussy eater.</I><BR/><BR/>I'll never forget hearing Phil, upon returning from the Philippines, share in gory detail (supplemented with pictures) about the eating of one of the premier delicacies there. Everyone's faces turned several shades of green and some of us lost our appetites for a while. <BR/><BR/>Phil may be a fussy eater, but he's got the stomach of a battleship.<BR/><BR/>Going on topic: That's an excellent post, Frank. Thank you.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00499447751220981083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-58902198051570338792007-11-21T17:00:00.000-08:002007-11-21T17:00:00.000-08:00Spot on. I work at the local rescue mission, and a...Spot on. <BR/><BR/>I work at the local rescue mission, and a fellow chaplain was discussing with me how local mission boards will often go into an area, and determine whether a church from THEIR DENOMINATION needs to be planted in that area, even when other solid, bible-believing churches exist on 3 of the 4 corners in this theoretical small town.<BR/><BR/>It seems that often as Christians our ideas and AGENDAS take precendence over walking with the Lord in an upright manner, and following Him even when it doesn't jive with the party line.Rob Willmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00460864362819208034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-58531142930039744562007-11-21T15:15:00.000-08:002007-11-21T15:15:00.000-08:00Hmmm. We used Ralph Winter's book in Justice Ande...Hmmm. We used Ralph Winter's book in Justice Anderson's missiology class at SWBTS in the mid-80's.<BR/><BR/>Seems like Ralph took a wrong turn or two between then and now.Jerryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10596065269535476259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-26747646222547702072007-11-21T14:04:00.000-08:002007-11-21T14:04:00.000-08:00Could you clarify--do you consider the mission sen...Could you clarify--do you consider the mission sending branch of a denomination as part of the church, or as an individual mission sending agency? If the mission sending branch is under the authority of a denomination, which provides oversight, do you think that is problematic?Hadassahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17809388943561834992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-88255896864433648242007-11-21T13:09:00.000-08:002007-11-21T13:09:00.000-08:00Correction: the Brazilian missionaries were sent o...Correction: the Brazilian missionaries were sent out in 1556.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33897781416449630512007-11-21T13:08:00.000-08:002007-11-21T13:08:00.000-08:00At the very heart of the Reformation world—G...At the very heart of the Reformation world—Geneva at the time of Calvin—not only did Geneva send out 88 missionaries to France between 1555 and 1562, but in 1562, they even sent two missionaries to Brazil! (<A HREF="http://www.founders.org/FJ33/article2.html" REL="nofollow">Source 1</A>, <A HREF="http://www.rts.edu/quarterly/fall01/james.html" REL="nofollow">Source 2</A>)Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-83855288875720362142007-11-21T12:17:00.000-08:002007-11-21T12:17:00.000-08:00If you've ever heard of the Perspectives on World ...If you've ever heard of the <A HREF="http://www.perspectives.org/site/pp.aspx?c=eqLLI0OFKrF&b=2806295" REL="nofollow">Perspectives on World Christian Movement</A>, which is a pretty dang good class IMHO, Winter has a large role. He has quite a few articles in the textbook, and so it's making me think I might need to get ready to unlearn some of the things seen there.<BR/><BR/>Here's an example: One of the claims in one his articles is that the Reformers sent out virtually no missionaries, and that this became a weapon used against them by their Papist adversaries. A friend of mine, now at RTSeminary, who took the class as well, checked the documentation and discovered it was quoted from LaTourette's "History of Christianity" 2-vol series, which gives it, as it turns out, but a very brief mention. <BR/>Said friend then looked further and found that the Reformers did actually send out quite a few missionaries but didn't call them "missinonaries" but rather "pastors". <BR/><BR/>Just an interesting note.Rhologyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51926173833293504252007-11-21T11:36:00.000-08:002007-11-21T11:36:00.000-08:00'meanie:I cut myself off at 3 pages single-spaced ...'meanie:<BR/><BR/>I cut myself off at 3 pages single-spaced in WORD. But I think you're right, that this topic deserves more consideration. There's a lot I left out -- let's see if I take the kind of flack I did for leaving out stuff because people ought to love the local church.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-14234925841874259092007-11-21T11:20:00.000-08:002007-11-21T11:20:00.000-08:00I agree with you. I sometimes think that the gove...I agree with you. I sometimes think that the governing board of different denominations seem to think that fulfilling the Great Commission is something that "other people" do. We are all called to that endeavor. I hope you all have a safe and blessed Thanksgiving tomorrow!<BR/>God bless<BR/>Brianpastorbrianculverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07325788116682801754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-24976140680694407872007-11-21T11:06:00.000-08:002007-11-21T11:06:00.000-08:00I'm sorry, did you write something after mentionin...I'm sorry, did you write something after mentioning Thanksgiving pizza? Mmmm, pizza....<BR/><BR/>Thanks be to the Lord our God that your son is now recovering.<BR/><BR/>Points well taken on the difference between mission agencies and churches, but (as you implied with the SBC's mission boards) the need to find a balance between the two, especially for the sake of small churches that may not be able to afford sending missionaries on their own.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-39157141408859093422007-11-21T10:59:00.000-08:002007-11-21T10:59:00.000-08:00Two comments. First, I think your analysis is spot...Two comments. First, I think your analysis is spot on here and deserves to be fleshed out in much more depth. I am part of two -- for lack of a better word -- parachurch organizations that exist to serve and equip the church as it proclaims the Gospel. Because I have been part of this parachurch world for so long, I can see how confusion can set in when trying to discern what roles each should play. Christian organizations are not churches, but each Christian in a Christian organization is part of the church universal and (hopefully) part of their own local fellowship. In the early church, the Gospel was proclaimed by individuals who went out and planted new fellowships of believers. These organizations of ours are a fairly modern convention, formed with the best of intentions as an effort to spread the Gospel more effectively. But outside of their proper bounds, the organizations end up getting more prominence than the church and that is very, very troubling. <BR/><BR/>Second, Ralph Winter is indeed known as a missiologist of note, but his theology and view of missions has apparently been evolving over the years and not for the better. And yes, this so-called modern "apostolic" movement is catching fire, mostly among charismatic churches for the time being. I find that very troubling and will probably have more to say on that down the road. There is indeed a biblical case to be made for small "a" apostles in the sense that they are messengers, but some of these guys seem to have the idea that they are large "A" apostles with the same authority as the original 12 plus Paul. Thus far, none of them are claiming to write new Scripture yet, but give them time.Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.com