tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post4535990178553805698..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Marriage: the one in the twonessPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-9206331355557731202012-06-07T12:54:04.881-07:002012-06-07T12:54:04.881-07:00Jim,
I'd suggest no denomination is immune to...Jim,<br /><br />I'd suggest no denomination is immune to divorce. Sadly, it has permeated the entire Christian spectrum.Nonnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452040267177962781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-55480203044722044352012-06-07T11:43:58.933-07:002012-06-07T11:43:58.933-07:00Good post. You have to take the one who has given ...Good post. You have to take the one who has given you their ear and focus on optimizing their input into the marriage. And you have to start with scripture.<br /><br />But I have to consider the occasional case where the errant one comes in looking for justification for leaving the marriage: "I'm good. The other person is bad. And God just wants me to be happy, doesn't He?" At that point, you know it's likely that person won't be a member of the church anymore very soon and some other pastor will be saying to their congregation: "...and (s)he comes to us from a sister church. What is the will of the congregation?"<br /><br />I wonder what the percentage of church membership changes in the SBC are due to divorce.Jim Pembertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01446388434272680014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-60068990914334556682012-06-06T20:50:25.251-07:002012-06-06T20:50:25.251-07:00Jared: The problem most singles have is not that ...Jared: The problem most singles have is not that their standards are too high or too low but that they treat selecting a spouse as if it were a trip to the local market. You can't choose a spouse by using a grocery list. Furthermore, because singles tend to hang out with other singles instead of older married adults they don't even know should be on their list to start with.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-34145221582136737732012-06-06T13:20:27.979-07:002012-06-06T13:20:27.979-07:00Dang, that is a good subtitle.Dang, that is a good subtitle.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-67907453018102549312012-06-06T12:59:30.525-07:002012-06-06T12:59:30.525-07:00I think the number one problem with marriage (and ...I think the number one problem with marriage (and any personal relationship) is self centeredness.<br /><br />I know that when I am annoyed with my husband it is usually because I am not getting what I want. I am thinking of me, me, me.<br /><br />One of my favorite marriage books is Sacred Marriage by Gary Thomas, subtitled, "What if God Designed Marriage to Make Us Holy More Than to Make Us Happy?" Zing!<br /><br />One of the most encouraging and instructive things I have seen in my life regarding marriage is my parents' marriage. Neither one of my parents is a saint or has ever conducted their marriage very well. My mother has been, however, committed to her marriage and keeping it together even in the face of a husband who would never acknowledge that he has any faults let alone do anything about them.<br /><br />My Dad is the most self centered person I have ever met. He has mental issues which do not help, but it is all about him - all the time.<br /><br />I won't go into all the issues in their marriage, but I will say that my mom's willingness to be faithful and obedient to God has been a testimony to me. Marriage (or life for that matter) is about obedience, growing in holiness, and living for others. It is not about being personally fulfilled and/or happy.<br /><br />That's my two cents. By the way, I have been happily married to a wonderful Christian man for almost 26 years. :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-15326851046067157192012-06-06T12:49:19.905-07:002012-06-06T12:49:19.905-07:00Jared,
Both being united in the same purposes and...Jared,<br /><br />Both being united in the same purposes and goals brought my husband and I together. We both were deeply involved in evangelization and discipling new believers. A common bond was our love for Christ and unbelievers. We were willing to confess our sins to each other and learned the necessity of forgiveness in this process. Honesty and trust go hand in hand and without these a marriage will be strained.<br /><br />I mentioned the same purposes and goals in that I have known marriages which have become unbearable because the couples were not on the same page in this regard. A dear friend of mine married a man whose goal was to be a pastor. Last year when she visited us spoke of how stressed their marriage had become. She had never wanted to be a pastor's wife. So she sought one career and he another. The result has been that of two people living in opposition to each other. He pastors, she counsels in a secular setting but they do not support one another in these areas. <br /><br />Make sure the woman you marry wants to share in your goals and support you in that endeavor. If you have a desire to evangelize, or to pastor, or to be involved in a particular outreach ministry, make sure she is right there with you, and giving her support.Nonnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452040267177962781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-43870623381755085282012-06-06T12:17:31.799-07:002012-06-06T12:17:31.799-07:00My husband and I promised not to ever mention divo...My husband and I promised not to ever mention divorce no matter what the circumstances we encountered. A few times when our marriage was tested to the limits we remembered our promise and divorce was never considered an option. Regretfully we were married by a Justice of the Peace and did not recite the vows which are recited in a church wedding ceremony. Attribute that to our youth and lack of direction from mature Christians. On our 25th anniversary we recited our vows and recommitted our faithfulness to each other in the presence of family and Christian friends.<br /><br />In an age when personal happiness and fulfillment are emphasized to the extreme, divorce is used as an excuse out of an unhappy situation. I've met numerous Christians who divorced for reasons that could not be justified from Scripture. Sadly, the church has often been complicit in the dissolution of these marriages.Nonnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452040267177962781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33577564219649616032012-06-06T08:51:16.120-07:002012-06-06T08:51:16.120-07:00One Busy Mom:
My thoughts exactly. Well said!
I ...One Busy Mom:<br /><br />My thoughts exactly. Well said!<br /><br />I think the problem comes when we think we can have too high of biblical standards for a potential spouse because we are so used to the Western lingo of falling in and out of love, as if love is some mystical blob that empowers you and can leave you at random. Advocates might say, "well, if you have standards, then you don't leave room for love." And yet we have to have some kind of standards, as we have noted.<br /><br />So it appears, and I'm really just thinking out loud, that the problem with this whole discussion stems from our understanding of relationships, love, and biblical principles. Of course we don't want to put someone on a pedestal by holding them to higher standards then ourselves (like you mentioned), but we also need to be discerning when it comes to the true nature of love and the biblical principles we need to set forth.<br /><br />That may sound vague, but I think I'm onto something here. Thanks for your input!Jared T. Baergenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07934502836422481775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-36897411881860349752012-06-06T08:21:16.678-07:002012-06-06T08:21:16.678-07:00Along the "help Jared line":
ditto on T...Along the "help Jared line":<br /><br />ditto on TWTG....great book!<br /><br />From the perspective of a mom, what I would tell my son:<br /><br />You asked if it was possible to have too high of a set of standards for a potential spouse.<br /><br /> Along with all the basics requirements you've already listed, Imho the answer is "no" - As Long As you always personally and honestly hold yourself to an even higher standard than you set for your future wife. Hold yourself to 150% of the standard you set for her, be quicker to forgive, kinder, more compassionate, and more cheerful. <br /><br />If you become the best "fleshed out" example of a Godly man, your character will then attract the type of young woman you are looking for in a wife - kinda like bees to pollen.<br /><br />If you continue, throughout your marriage, to hold yourself to those higher standards your future wife will be very blessed!one busy momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18087795055010641099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-52075218584226794492012-06-06T07:47:51.000-07:002012-06-06T07:47:51.000-07:00Until then, kids, go by a copy of The World-Tiltin...Until then, kids, go by a copy of The World-Tilting Gospel if you haven't already, and read it. Every Christian today needs this book!<br /><br /><i>*I am in no way related to or obligated by DJP in any way to endorse or otherwise promote his book for sales purposes or fame. <b>The book is just that good...</b></i>Jared T. Baergenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07934502836422481775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-678932375796326372012-06-06T07:41:45.434-07:002012-06-06T07:41:45.434-07:00Dan:
If high-visibility folks who have a reputati...Dan:<br /><br /><i>If high-visibility folks who have a reputation for caring so much about the Gospel and longing for deeply-Biblical yet accessible expositions of its broad range of doctrines had done in their measure what you did in yours (and what they have in fact done to raise visibility of Driscoll's latest sex book, and another writer's sex-with-God type book), it would have been a NY Times bestseller.</i><br /><br />Exactly! Kind of a disturbing thought when you think about it, though. <br /><br />Something Frank said to me early on as a Christian changed my perspective on being a Christian, which led to the whole TWTG thing:<br /><br />I had found something that I felt needed its own Pyro critique, so I sent the link to Frank. The only response he gave me went something like this, "How does this affect the Gospel?" <br /><br />I realized through that simple question the importance and centrality of the Gospel. Then I read TWTG, which forever altered my walk with Christ, and the rest is history. <br /><br />I'll have to purchase your book on Proverbs and check out chapter 7 dealing with the topic I brought up. I'm sure it has plenty of good wisdom in it.Jared T. Baergenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07934502836422481775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-28994310723233814582012-06-06T06:08:50.237-07:002012-06-06T06:08:50.237-07:00Nonna: sorry if I'm only giving you an impress...Nonna: sorry if I'm only giving you an impression. I wasn't meaning to be subtle. I find your comments invariably self-referential and distracting from the point of any given post. I decline to interact with you, because I observe that when others do so, it turns into a tar-baby situation, resulting neither in your benefit nor in value-added to the post in question.<br /><br />And since it happens as a rule in the metas of others' posts, I leave it to those authors to ride herd. But this is my post, so I commented, to make sure no one falsely concluded that my silence indicated agreement with your comment.<br /><br />I trust I've been clear.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-18714428342741377242012-06-06T06:05:22.745-07:002012-06-06T06:05:22.745-07:00Jared - sorry for taking so long to respond; very ...Jared - sorry for taking so long to respond; very busy day plus other issues.<br /><br />You have IN NO WAY let me down, so don't even say it in jest. What you have done, for instance, to spread the ministry of TWTG within your abilities was amazing, and I'll never forget it. If high-visibility folks who have a reputation for caring so much about the Gospel and longing for deeply-Biblical yet accessible expositions of its broad range of doctrines had done in their measure what you did in yours (and what they have in fact done to raise visibility of Driscoll's latest sex book, and another writer's sex-with-God type book), it would have been a NY Times bestseller.<br /><br />Not nec. saying that's a good thing. Just saying.<br /><br />So thank you. We're good. We're more than good.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-47979369647539567742012-06-06T05:14:26.240-07:002012-06-06T05:14:26.240-07:00Okay, so far we have a potential spouse who is def...Okay, so far we have a potential spouse who is definitely a Christian; one who understands love and how to apply it all the time; one who is trustworthy, and... Be friends, pray, and wait for the magical appearance of this "right one."<br /><br />Anyone else want to add to the perfect potential spouse model in the "help Jared comment thread"? <br /><br />If anyone else wants to add something, instead of adding something on the common sense level, lets try and answer this question:<br /><br />Is it possible to have too high of a standard when observing* a potential spouse?Jared T. Baergenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07934502836422481775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-44354735583692189212012-06-06T05:03:08.747-07:002012-06-06T05:03:08.747-07:00Nonna:
The specifics I'd suggest have more to...Nonna:<br /><br /><i>The specifics I'd suggest have more to do with your distinct affinities, i.e.: personal tastes.</i><br /><br />I think what Rachael was getting at is that your initial comment centered on looking for subjective characteristics. <br /><br />While I'm sure these things might come into play somewhere, these things such as personal tastes, blond hair vs. brown hair, etc. are irrelevant to me and this conversation. Whether that was your intended meaning or not, it is what you said, unless somehow all of us read it wrong.Jared T. Baergenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07934502836422481775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-67774829689596235322012-06-06T04:07:54.338-07:002012-06-06T04:07:54.338-07:00Hmmm, almost turning into a "help Jared"...Hmmm, almost turning into a "help Jared" thread. So, why not. Jared, I'll give you the same advice I give my children. "Stop looking". <br /><br />Instead, focus on serving Christ. Do this in the context of community. As you do this, you will develop friendships with like minded Christians who have similar goals as yourself. <br /><br />There is much to be said for being friends before you become more. When you find this friend where you both want to be more than friends, prayerfully seek God's guidance. <br /><br />Above all, seek God first. It is His strength that is going to get you through the difficult times ahead in marriage. While your partner will be a big part of your life, it is God who defines you, not your partner. If you start to look to your partner to fulfill God's place in your life, you are headed for a world of pain. <br /><br />You want a partner who will support you in placing God first and expects the same of you. <br /><br />Matt 6:33Davohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06117488846482223938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-3815558449564471162012-06-05T21:46:55.800-07:002012-06-05T21:46:55.800-07:00Rachel,
As far as DJP's comment, well...let&#...Rachel,<br /><br />As far as DJP's comment, well...let's just say there are repeatable patterns - and that's being said aloud in a quite cheerful manner. Now to move on.<br /><br /><i>If your criteria for finding a spouse is primarily subjective...</i><br /><br />I'd say that the first thing a committed Christian should do is pray for & seek a committed Christian spouse. Not just a Sunday-go-to-meeting kind of spouse, but one who is working out his/her salvation with fear and trembling on a daily basis. One who prays for the needs of others and seeks to build up the body of Christ through love and good deeds. One who loves unbelievers and desires to fulfill Christ's command in evangelization. <br /><br /><i>We look for someone who expresses with their life that they understand what that means.</i> <br /><br />I'd say <i>understanding</i> that kind of Christ-like love is only a beginning. It's when the rubber meets the road in real life situations that we find out what's required of us in order to put that love into practice. On a personal note, the love I had for my husband was put to the test a few short yrs. after being married. What I understood and knew in my head had to be translated into my heart and shown in my actions. Conversely, my husband's love for me has also been put to the test. And the example he has shown me in putting into practice that self-less love has helped me to persevere in times of trouble.<br /><br /><i>if they happen to also like the same TV shows you do...</i><br /><br />TV never entered the equation for us since we did't own or watch TV for the first 5 years of our marriage. But we read the Scriptures together and prayed with one another.Nonnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452040267177962781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-3352571259884666872012-06-05T20:45:31.588-07:002012-06-05T20:45:31.588-07:00Rachael:
Speaking of money line's, that was t...Rachael:<br /><br />Speaking of money line's, that was the money comment. Too bad we're fresh out of Facebook like buttons. Well said.Jared T. Baergenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07934502836422481775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-30731267065183993942012-06-05T19:53:35.270-07:002012-06-05T19:53:35.270-07:00Nonna,
Not to pile on, but if you read Dan's ...Nonna,<br /><br />Not to pile on, but if you read Dan's comment as though he were saying it aloud quite cheerfully, perhaps after his morning coffee, you'll see he wasn't being cranky, just truthful. <br /><br />If your criteria for <i>finding</i> a spouse is primarily subjective, you might be tempted to make that your same criteria for <i>keeping</i> a spouse.<br /><br />And that's no good.<br /><br />The money line (perhaps one to be expounded on in the future, as it's the one that I've been pondering in the midst of a difficult season in my own marriage) is this one:<br /><br /><i>"Just think, for a moment, if Christ loved the church only when the church deserved His love — "</i><br /><br />That's objective. That's where we start when we're <i>looking</i> to marry - we look for someone who expresses with their life that they understand what that means. And that's where we live <i>after</i> we marry - we live every day with our spouse as if we understand what that means.<br /><br />But yes, if they happen to also like the same TV shows you do, so much the better. :)Rachael Starkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10781158372237369417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-86096171037325903232012-06-05T17:56:13.958-07:002012-06-05T17:56:13.958-07:00Nonna:
Also, Dan isn't obligated to give me a...Nonna:<br /><br />Also, Dan isn't obligated to give me a response. I was merely asking for a possible resource, which he has already given; of which he himself wrote. I think that will suffice, unless otherwise necessary to link to something else or provide a new resource altogether.<br /><br />Anything besides which is an aside to the intention of this comment feed. <br /><br />Thanks for the input, though :)Jared T. Baergenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07934502836422481775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-13272088647504148692012-06-05T17:36:32.446-07:002012-06-05T17:36:32.446-07:00Nonna:
Good advice. Now you know why I asked Dan....Nonna:<br /><br />Good advice. Now you know why I asked Dan.Jared T. Baergenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07934502836422481775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-83060626346591888062012-06-05T17:30:27.034-07:002012-06-05T17:30:27.034-07:00And Jared, perhaps the best thing is to get advice...And Jared, perhaps the best thing is to get advice from your pastor, or a godly Christian that you know and trust.<br /><br />Sound like a plan?Nonnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452040267177962781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-63937403367517697312012-06-05T17:28:54.506-07:002012-06-05T17:28:54.506-07:00DJP:
I get the distinct impression you got a prob...DJP:<br /><br />I get the distinct impression you got a problem with me. :-) Like, I dunno...always some kind of snide remark concerning various comments I make.<br /><br />Btw, if you <i>care</i> to...perhaps <i>you</i> have some advice you could give Jared. After all, my answer wasn't meant to be comprehensive or even scratching the surface. But a virtuous woman...t'aint many of them around, I'd say. <br /><br />Oh yeah, thanks for sending Christian love my way. It's so rare to find these days.Nonnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452040267177962781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-28198808590669558052012-06-05T16:38:19.320-07:002012-06-05T16:38:19.320-07:00Noted, Dan. Not really what I had in mind at all.Noted, Dan. Not really what I had in mind at all.Jared T. Baergenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07934502836422481775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-68603877555243764592012-06-05T16:30:04.362-07:002012-06-05T16:30:04.362-07:00And this single man is copiously taking notes and ...And this single man is copiously taking notes and realizing how HARD marriage is going to be whenever it may be that I be married.<br /><br />Strange then that I look at the challenge and say, "Bring it on. I still want to be married."Sir Brasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01893578064434019702noreply@blogger.com