tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post4831590608680616232..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: The Pastoral "Call," and how there isn't onePhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger93125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-598358334153265642020-04-24T12:24:45.458-07:002020-04-24T12:24:45.458-07:00I keep coming back to this article and the comment...I keep coming back to this article and the comments. I am so sick and tired of hearing "Bible believing" pastors, preachers, teachers, and leaders perpetuate this myth of a "calling to ministry." <br /><br />It sets up a spiritual elite ("the called"). <br /><br />It discourages the normal folks in the pew who just want to serve and please the Lord ("Why doesn't God call me?").<br /><br />It sets up the dual authority of Scripture vs. experience (and actually puts experience over Scripture). <br /><br />It creates false (and unattainable) expectations for someone desiring the office of a bishop/elder/pastor ("I really want to preach... but God hasn't called me").<br /><br />I could go on... Someone should do a conference on this... a book... a radio show... something! Make it stop... There is no "calling to the ministry" outside of Scripture's call to salvation (a universal call to all men everywhere) and Scripture's call to service (to all saints to get busy and intentionally involved in evangelizing the lost and edifying the saved).<br /><br />It just ain't that hard... You know?? Why do we keep perpetuating this myth?? ("We" in the editorial sense, of course.)<br /><br />Ugh... I am so tired of hearing about this "call to ministry." This post was written in... what? 2012??? And I still come back to it... <br /><br />Thank you, by the way.<br /><br />gkGregK.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16995224500493841097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-88547763820640274492016-10-21T06:44:07.191-07:002016-10-21T06:44:07.191-07:00Hi Dan Philips!
I'm very happy because I foun...Hi Dan Philips!<br /><br />I'm very happy because I found this post in your blog. Very good.<br /><br />I'm a baptist christian in Brazil. <br /><br />After a time of reflection about the pastoral work in the Bible, I started to realize that the very common idea of "calling" can not be applied to pastoral work.<br /><br />So, I searched for this same point of view in brazilian sites and blogs and I didn't encounter nothing! <br /><br />So, I decided to search sites of the world and found your site.<br /><br />I believe in the same way that you, in this point.<br /><br />God is good.<br /><br />I'm sorry because my english mistakes. I'm learning the idiom yet. <br />Davi Luanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17959849270595621299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-53860267308932158242014-10-15T12:12:39.610-07:002014-10-15T12:12:39.610-07:00Exactly!
Wait, what?Exactly!<br /><br />Wait, what?DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-44215539552598419442014-10-15T09:52:35.830-07:002014-10-15T09:52:35.830-07:00> The only "call" the Bible talks abo...> The only "call" the Bible talks about in this sense is a revelational and verbal call to prophetic ministry. <br /><br />Oh, OK then. Not "called" to be a pastor. Actually, I'm called to be a prophet!<br /><br />Thanks for clarifying that!Mike Westfallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06944727980772754938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-12258588231232909362014-09-06T20:06:41.935-07:002014-09-06T20:06:41.935-07:00As others have said, excellent post. The idea of s...As others have said, excellent post. The idea of starting things off on the wrong foot is spot on. I wonder though if the terminology comes more from the idea that everyone has a vocational calling, something they are particularly gifted in, as opposed to the way people most often use the phrase "called," being in the sense that they heard/sensed/felt, etc.Dan Michael Coganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14226307901596206344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-42928882698609269932014-08-23T16:42:22.493-07:002014-08-23T16:42:22.493-07:00I am thrilled to read articles like this and can i...I am thrilled to read articles like this and can imagine a day when this whole "call" fad is over; it does not comport well with Scripture!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06493079142938273322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-35331569846013830572014-08-15T07:32:20.776-07:002014-08-15T07:32:20.776-07:00Very good article Dan. I use to think I had that c...Very good article Dan. I use to think I had that call, until I actually started reading my bible and realized it was nothing but emotional manipulation from man who want teenagers to become pastors!<br /><br />I dropped it all, until the church recognizes me as such a man, I'm pleased to be an ordinary servant of the Lord.<br /><br />Mike.BAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-45227083121875238142013-11-16T00:18:59.405-08:002013-11-16T00:18:59.405-08:00I came over here from the comments section from Fr...I came over here from the comments section from Frank Turk's exchange with Adrian Warnock. I appreciate this very useful post for anyone considering full time ministry and I wish I had read something like this way back when I thought I had that *mysterious feeling* to preach. It actually turns out that it's important to know what's written in First Timothy and Titus and strive for the qualities listed therein for pastors and deacons. Also something else that is essential is to be (as John MacArthur taught) is saved, Spirit filled,sanctified, submissive and surrendered to God, and willing to suffer for Him if necessary. Then, in whatever station one occupies in life, make sure you are grounded in solid biblical doctrine, get out there and DO SOMETHING.<br /><br />I think that's the best way to find out how a person can offer his or her life to God in ministry that honors Him, whatever it may end up being, be it great or small.Burrito34https://www.blogger.com/profile/04326575419406343733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1387397322171809832013-03-13T16:03:43.431-07:002013-03-13T16:03:43.431-07:00Terry M wrote: "The supernatural element is s...Terry M wrote: "The supernatural element is scary to those that only want to have a non-supernatural Christian life"<br />So, being REGENERATED and brought out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of Christ in the first place is not enough of a "supernatural element"?? How can a real Christian life even be "non-supernatural" (does "born from above" ring any bells?)stirringshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08837257659967036236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-30375991167125971222013-02-15T20:52:46.378-08:002013-02-15T20:52:46.378-08:00Thanks, Dan, and thanks Matthias Media, too.Thanks, Dan, and thanks Matthias Media, too.Jerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16317612172464728181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-82525777074652930252013-02-13T15:58:11.840-08:002013-02-13T15:58:11.840-08:00Sweet; Matthias has put out some great stuff.Sweet; Matthias has put out some great stuff.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-58294620207831658252013-02-13T15:45:26.830-08:002013-02-13T15:45:26.830-08:00Hi Dan
Although it's a few months ago now, I&...Hi Dan<br /><br />Although it's a few months ago now, I'm very glad you raised this topic of "the call", and I'm also really encouraged to see a good number of people heartily agreeing with what you had to say. <br /><br />I am commenting now because we are a little apprehensive about how one of our new books will be received in the North American scene when we release it in a few weeks time.<br /><br />As you say, "The concept of a call to pastoral ministry or a call to preach is deeply ingrained, and deeply traditional." To suggest that it is wrong and pastorally damaging is attacking a fairly entrenched sacred cow.<br /><br />The upcoming book is called "Do You Feel Called By God? Rethinking the call to ministry", by Michael Bennett. <br /><br />Marty Sweeney, from our US office, is going to send you a copy for your interest.<br /><br />It's not on sale yet, but there's more information <a href="http://www.matthiasmedia.com/do-you-feel-called-by-god" rel="nofollow">here</a> if you are interested.<br /><br />Maybe it will 're-ignite' some more PyroManiacs discussion. Hope so. We might need all the friends we can muster!<br /><br />Warm regards<br /><br />Ian Carmichael<br />Matthias Media<br />SydneyIan Carmichaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12551347531535791128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-31701049554638932892012-12-11T09:05:45.823-08:002012-12-11T09:05:45.823-08:00"... and coffee is not concrete."
You c..."... and coffee is not concrete."<br /><br />You clearly aren't drinking the coffee that I'm subjected to here.SammyBoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11702628523621623736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-66921029561410632312012-10-18T05:11:36.384-07:002012-10-18T05:11:36.384-07:00That cliche proves you haven't heard a word.
...That cliche proves you haven't heard a word.<br /><br />But it always comes down to that, doesn't it? Charismatics, continuationists, Pentecostals, Third Wavers — they all have in common that they don't believe the Holy Spirit.<br /><br />They don't believe the Holy Spirit when <a href="That" rel="nofollow">He tells them what the Word He inspired is and does, and what role it should have in the believer's life</a>.<br /><br />They don't believe the Holy Spirit when He explains His own ministry.<br /><br />They are sure they know better than God the Holy Spirit.<br /><br />It's one of life's tragic ironies.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-71953919433969392722012-10-17T21:18:29.793-07:002012-10-17T21:18:29.793-07:00God bless you brother Dan. I hope your religion is...God bless you brother Dan. I hope your religion is more than Father, Son and Holy Bible. It should be Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.<br />Adios. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05815965770426713354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-81566802195750013272012-10-16T14:14:34.622-07:002012-10-16T14:14:34.622-07:00That sounds like a confession, but for it to clear...That sounds like a confession, but for it to clear your conscience and deal with your guilt you should say it in your own words.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-78620657287472020912012-10-16T14:11:58.207-07:002012-10-16T14:11:58.207-07:00
John 9:39-41
New International Version (NIV)
...<br />John 9:39-41<br /><br />New International Version (NIV)<br /><br /> <br />39 Jesus said,[a] “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.”<br /> <br />40 Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, “What? Are we blind too?”<br /> <br />41 Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05815965770426713354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-652162209889666172012-10-16T05:26:43.613-07:002012-10-16T05:26:43.613-07:00That's a ridiculous slander on MacArthur, and ...That's a ridiculous slander on MacArthur, and you should repent of it.<br /><br />You are simply proving my point, and you don't even see it. Whoever's mistaught you probably bears some blame, but you need to shoulder it and grow up.<br /><br />You don't get to reject what the Word does say, insist on making up what it doesn't say, and then call those who believe God "Pharisees." What you are doing is the essence of Pharisaism: disbelief in God's own self-testimony, insistence on adding to it.<br /><br />Now I'm fearing I've been over-patient with you. Read the post and think about it. Read my last comment to you and what it links to, and think about it. Repent of your ungodly mysticism and grow up.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-14272038870770448462012-10-15T21:38:48.027-07:002012-10-15T21:38:48.027-07:00You have put words in my mouth. Scripture should b...You have put words in my mouth. Scripture should be our first source for us and should be the foundation of everything we do. However, Scripture tells us that God's Spirit relates to us through our spirit and that is supernatural. I have seen the reverance shown to John MacArthur (one of my past teachers) and know he has pretty much hated the idea that our relationship should have supernatural elements. The supernatural element is scary to those that only want to have a non-supernatural Christian life. It is less messy, but all too often it leads to legalism and Phariseeism.<br /><br />I understand discipleship, it means learner in Greek, and sadly some don't want to go on learning in ways that seem messy and unsafe.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05815965770426713354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-10378944465575312752012-10-15T14:12:59.105-07:002012-10-15T14:12:59.105-07:00So, to your mind, believing that Scripture is what...So, to your mind, believing that <a href="http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2012/08/what-we-confess-as-our-sufficient.html" rel="nofollow">Scripture is what God says it is, that it does what God says it does, and that it should have the place in our lives that God says it should have</a>, is deifying human reason and anti-supernatural.<br /><br />I would earnestly suggest that something went off-rail in your <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2028:18-20;%20John%208:31-32&version=ESV" rel="nofollow">instruction as (and understanding of what it means to be) a disciple of Christ</a>.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-20984548239827699512012-10-15T13:50:52.515-07:002012-10-15T13:50:52.515-07:00Dan:
I respect where you are coming from and appre...Dan:<br />I respect where you are coming from and appreciate your view of the sufficiency of scripture. The problem I see is that your faith is strictly cerebral and diefies human intellect and all too often this means we do not believe that God still speaks to His people today extrabiblically and rules out all the supernatural aspects of a relationship with Christ. Since we have a supernatural God that limits God's influence in our life and denies intimacy between the Bride and the Bridegroom.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05815965770426713354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-4624220078682212902012-10-15T06:19:39.486-07:002012-10-15T06:19:39.486-07:00Terry, was there ever a point at which you did bel...Terry, was there ever a point at which you did believe in the sufficiency of Scripture? If so, what changed your mind? What is your authority now?DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-32511641805534318682012-10-15T00:45:28.522-07:002012-10-15T00:45:28.522-07:00Dear Dan:
I realize this comment is late and you ...Dear Dan: <br />I realize this comment is late and you may not see it, but I just read your article on “The Call” to ministry and felt led to answer your article filled with preconceived notions.<br /><br />First, you admitted that Old Testament prophets received calls to the prophetic office. Yet you probably do not believe in present day prophets although they are mentioned in Ephesians 4:11 as an ascension gift of Christ to the Church. You might be honest enough to admit there is a prophetic element to preaching and you might admit that God is the same yesterday, today and forever and has the right and predeliction to be consistent. Who would be so foolish as to say God cannot “call” his servants today?<br /><br />You ask: What verse in the Bible talks about a pastor's call? I would ask: What verse in the Bible forbids a call to ministry? We do not have biblical authorization for the use of pianos, microphones, or even copy machines – yet we use them.<br /><br />You set up a Straw Man with your story of a teenager who claimed a “call” from God and went directly to preaching without any training or apprenticeship. My claim is that any person, call or not, should have to pass the litmus tests of spiritual maturity and character based on biblical requirements.<br /><br />I cannot help but wonder if you believe in the legitamacy of Christ's “call” to the apostle Paul.<br />TerryMAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05815965770426713354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-45619925999798045442012-10-11T16:20:57.328-07:002012-10-11T16:20:57.328-07:00Correct. Both are called "gifts."Correct. Both are called "gifts."DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-20173496131902224132012-10-11T16:17:34.903-07:002012-10-11T16:17:34.903-07:00Interesting article. I actually did a word study h...Interesting article. I actually did a word study here awhile back on the world "call". I was looking for the "call" to singleness.<br /><br />Guess what? There's no such thing as a call to singleness, either. <br /><br />;)Esther Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14355059323559425038noreply@blogger.com