tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post5024498007379502873..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Legalism and Christian Liberty AgainPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger87125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-81770998322870758292010-06-06T11:37:12.077-07:002010-06-06T11:37:12.077-07:00Interesting sermon today. It was totally on the su...Interesting sermon today. It was totally on the subject of God's anger being removed from us at the cross and how for freedom sake Christ set us free. I still don't understand why God was angry at OT saints who also had their sins removed, but I'll ask one of the pastors when I have an opportunity. This sermon really ministered to me. Thanks for your patience w/me, CR. :)<br /><br />ps. you can listen to the sermon tomorrow at DG.bphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265050268204322057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-87747192219836283782010-06-05T02:39:28.280-07:002010-06-05T02:39:28.280-07:00I'm sorry but there is nothing more I can say....I'm sorry but there is nothing more I can say. <br /><br />Do you go to a Bible gospel preaching church? If so, I would ask your pastor these questions you have been asking.<br /><br />If not, I would commend two books by Jerry Bridges, the Gospel For Real Life and the Disciplines of Grace.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-27932439062729986242010-06-04T20:40:27.683-07:002010-06-04T20:40:27.683-07:00but I spose I shouldn't have added "unkno...but I spose I shouldn't have added "unknowingly sinning" since I agree that we all sin everyday unknowingly.bphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265050268204322057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-29108832216630749082010-06-04T20:32:24.746-07:002010-06-04T20:32:24.746-07:00Sorry if you’re frustrated w/me, CR, but you have ...Sorry if you’re frustrated w/me, CR, but you have to admit that your reasoning was a bit confusing. <i>He can’t be angry w/us because all of our sins were punished on the cross…in regards to OT, most of them talk about an anger kindled against them rather than God angry with them per se, except with Aaron…even so, God’s wrath had to be revealed in Scriptures otherwise we wouldn’t even know what we were being saved from...If all we saw was the anger against the reprobate, we would think God's elect aren't that bad.</i><br /><br />It doesn't make sense that God can get angry with OT saints but not w/NT saints. For all have their sins removed at the cross.<br /><br />Anyway, I don’t think it was fair to say that I’m “in a precarious situation” and in a “terrible and miserable and depressing state" just because I'm wondering what God's attitude is toward us if we live in on-going sin (unknowingly, knowingly or suspecting).bphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265050268204322057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-36501657909191866862010-06-04T12:31:04.806-07:002010-06-04T12:31:04.806-07:00Btw, when I said that I often wonder what God'...Btw, when I said that I often wonder what God's disposition toward me is, I did not mean that I thought His disposition could be to punish me for my sins. I know Christ already took that punishment for me.bphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265050268204322057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-40279923273811398132010-06-04T12:22:56.178-07:002010-06-04T12:22:56.178-07:00I assume you meant, "We would think, gee, God...I assume you meant, "We would think, gee, God's elect <i>aren't</i> that bad of a people" (at the end of your 1st paragraph).<br /><br />CR, are you basically saying that <br />God needed to show His wrath against His "justified" saints in the OT to show us that prior to justification, believers were just as bad as the reprobate?bphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265050268204322057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-65007913049339025872010-06-04T11:15:52.771-07:002010-06-04T11:15:52.771-07:00BP: You mentioned that God's wrath had to be r...BP: <b><i>You mentioned that God's wrath had to be revealed in the Scriptures or we wouldn't know what we were being saved from, but His wrath against unbeliever's would have been sufficient for that, wouldn't it? </i></b><br /><br />No, it wouldn't have. Both the reprobate and elect (prior to justification) are/were under the wrath and condemnation of God. The only difference is that God's wrath against the elect is propitiated at the cross. If all we saw was the anger against the reprobate, we would think, gee, God's elect are that bad of a people.<br /><br />BP: <b><i>Maybe I'm missing something.</i></b><br /><br />Yes, you are missing something very crucial and vital. I'm sorry, but I don't know what else to say that I haven't said already. You are in a very precarious situation wondering what God's disposition is towards you. There is no nice way to say this. What a terrible and miserable and depressing state to be under.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-59898305054163910392010-06-04T10:38:54.229-07:002010-06-04T10:38:54.229-07:00Sorry for my slowness in getting this, CR. I want ...Sorry for my slowness in getting this, CR. I want it to be true. And I can see how it can become legalistic to think that He's pleased with me when I'm obedient and displeased or even angry with me when I'm not. But I still don't understand how it is that He can be angry toward OT saints but not NT saints if God's wrath was poured out on Christ for their sin in the same was it was for ours, You mentioned that God's wrath had to be revealed in the Scriptures or we wouldn't know what we were being saved from, but His wrath against unbeliever's would have been sufficient for that, wouldn't it? But His anger at His people (for complaining, not trusting, disobedience, etc.) makes it hard for me to think that He's not angry at me for the same things. Maybe I'm missing something.bphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265050268204322057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-76184183971612613782010-06-04T10:07:46.124-07:002010-06-04T10:07:46.124-07:00The Lord can never, never, never be angry with His...The Lord can never, never, never be angry with His new covenant people. Never. You won't find a single passage in the NT where you find God angry with any of His NT saints. If you continue to believe that the Lord can be angry with you, like I said, you'll be a very miserable Christian, because you won't obey out of love and gratitude for what God has done, is doing and will do in your life, you'll obey Him to get back into His favor. This is what the legalist does. He doesn't obey out of love and gratitude but earn favor or avoid disfavor.<br /><br />With regards to the OT passages you brought. Most of the them talk about an anger kindled against them rather than God angry with them per se,except with Aaron. Even so, God's wrath had to be revealed in Scriptures otherwise we wouldn't even know what we were being saved from.<br /><br />The passage with Aaron is in part a anthropomorphism. So, naturally, God was not going to destroy Aaron. He had already determined that from eternity past, just as God was not going to destory Israel, when He told Moses he would. Many of the passages in the OT demonstrated God's revealed wrath.<br /><br />Now, that doesn't mean that God's wrath in the NT is changed and that He no longer has wrath. For the believer, His wrath and anger against the believer has already been propitiated (satisfied) through the atonement.<br /><br />God is not angry with you, BP, He can <b>not</b> be angry with you, if you are believer. I'll give you the last word.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-67663239586448041622010-06-04T09:08:35.132-07:002010-06-04T09:08:35.132-07:00“And the LORD was so angry with Aaron that he was ...<i> “And the LORD was so angry with Aaron that he was ready to destroy him.” – Deut 9:20<br /><br />“The anger of the Lord was kindled against Moses.” – Ex 4:14<br /><br />“At a lodging place on the way the LORD met him and sought to put him to death.” – Ex 4:24<br /><br />“Then the anger of the Lord was kindled against his people, and he abhorred his heritage.” – Ps 106:40</i><br /><br />So, maybe God can get really angry with us, but it’s not the same anger/wrath He feels toward unbelievers(?)bphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265050268204322057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-90059274534873982092010-06-03T23:22:39.226-07:002010-06-03T23:22:39.226-07:00There are examples in OT (and NT) Scripture where ...There are examples in OT (and NT) Scripture where God is disciplining His children but this far different from the anger He has for those who are not saved. Discipline applies to only those who are in Christ. The attributes experienced by the unregenerate are anger and wrath.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-72787531689909404352010-06-03T20:08:11.133-07:002010-06-03T20:08:11.133-07:00Ok CR. I’ll start with Romans. Same question as be...Ok CR. I’ll start with Romans. Same question as before though: If the O.T. saints were saved in the same way we are (through Christ's atonement), how is it that God could be angry towards Moses, Jonah, David, etc.?bphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265050268204322057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-61160962157923316592010-06-03T19:11:28.396-07:002010-06-03T19:11:28.396-07:00"Does "Lost" present a possibility ..."Does "Lost" present a possibility of temptation to its viewers?"-Ricky, a slave of the Lord Jesus Christ.<br /><br />Satan will constantly tempt us to sin in many ways. Like Paul said, "I don't do what my heart wants, but i do what I want."<br />Who can save me from this struggle i have in this body of death? I thank the Lord for the Cross, and for my Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for me."<br /><br />Satan may also tempt us to be self-righteous, and so we slip into even more dangerous ground, unless we repent.<br /><br />Legalism vs a too easy-going view of sin is something I have never nailed down completely, but TeamPyro sure do help with their teachings. And the comments also help, as the Holy Spirit enlightens us.<br /><br />have a great weekend, and Lord's day.donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-76252778968638105832010-06-03T16:06:32.021-07:002010-06-03T16:06:32.021-07:00BP,
I noticed you've been mixing up certain k...BP,<br /><br />I noticed you've been mixing up certain key words, I'm sure it's not intentional. <br /><br />For example, you asked way back when whether God is angry with His people to your recent comment of whether God is angry with sin. I did <b><i>not</i></b> say anything about God not being angry with <i>sin</i>, I said He is not angry with His people. <br /><br />He can't be angry with us, because all of our past, present and future sins were punished on the cross. Is He "angry with sin?" Actually, it doesn't make sense to say he is angry with action, it's better to ask, does He hate sin? Absolutely, that's why they had to be punished on the cross.<br /><br />I also noticed in your last comment you asked is God not "upset" with us? Well, I didn't say anything about God being or not being "upset." I was addressing your specific terminology of "angry." We do grieve the Holy Spirit but we can't make Him angry.<br /><br />For your study, I would recommend going through the book of Romans and really focus on the atonement and what Christ's crucifixion accomplished and what justification means.<br /><br />You said way back when you knew what the gospel was? I don't mean this in any mean or bad way, but I'm questioning that because you said you wonder what God's disposition is toward Christians. If you don't know what God's disposition is toward Christians and you sometimes think he is angry with us, then I submit, with all due respect, you don't really understand the gospel in particular, what the atonement of the cross accomplished.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-49891362803017346522010-06-03T15:48:45.162-07:002010-06-03T15:48:45.162-07:00Ricky asked:
"Does 'Lost' feature ac...Ricky asked:<br /><br />"Does 'Lost' feature actresses dressed in sexually provocative outfits?"<br /><br />Actually, no. It was rather unique in that it didn't feature female characters dressed in a gratuitous way. High-necked shirts or T-shirts and pants were the norm, on both the men and the women.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-20222066385768237372010-06-03T14:39:16.334-07:002010-06-03T14:39:16.334-07:00Thanks, CR. Hmm, this is hard to grasp. So, becaus...Thanks, CR. Hmm, this is hard to grasp. So, because Jesus took all of God's wrath for our sin, God, the Father, only and always sees the righteousness of Christ when He looks upon us? Never upset with any sin we commit? If the O.T. saints were saved through Christ, as we are, and their punishment was taken out on Christ, how is it that the Father could be angry at their sin, then? <br /><br />Also, you mentioned "grieving the Holy Spirit." To grieve means to sadden, to distress..so God isn't angry at our sin, but saddened by it (?) Huh, I'm gonna have to study this. I'm a bit confused.bphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265050268204322057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-48258401926620012992010-06-03T13:42:32.075-07:002010-06-03T13:42:32.075-07:00Heh, all right. I'll concede on that... though...Heh, all right. I'll concede on that... though you didn't deny "semi-nude". You only denied "nude". :P<br /><br />But answer me this: Does "Lost" depict scenes that are sexually immoral? Does "Lost" feature actresses dressed in sexually provocative outfits? Does "Lost" present a possibility of temptation to its viewers? If so, you are avoiding the issue by focusing on my use of the word "pornography".<br /><br />Galatians 5:19 - "The deeds of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality".<br /><br />Romans 12:1-2 - "I appeal to you, therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your minds, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, that which is good and acceptable and perfect."<br /><br />- Ricky, a slave of the Lord Jesus Christ.Rickyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05392060126733634746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-19222008168037363672010-06-03T13:38:31.828-07:002010-06-03T13:38:31.828-07:00I saw a bare shoulder on tv before.
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B...I saw a bare shoulder on tv before.<br /><br />----------<br /><br />But seriously, how much bare skin can be exposed for it to constitute unacceptable "nudity" on TV for Christians?<br /><br />Will the answer vary from Christian to Christian and vary from context to context and from circumstance to circumstance?<br /><br />"Weaker brother" category?Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-91490096835786695742010-06-03T13:34:35.040-07:002010-06-03T13:34:35.040-07:00My bad...My bad...CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-10408564666670375142010-06-03T13:32:08.115-07:002010-06-03T13:32:08.115-07:00CR! You're not listening! It's "unden...CR! You're not listening! It's "undeniable"! That means you can't deny it! So don't try!DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-27940878638881360052010-06-03T13:22:28.477-07:002010-06-03T13:22:28.477-07:00There is no nudity allowed in broadcast TV, hence,...There is no nudity allowed in broadcast TV, hence, no, 'Lost' does not fit that description.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-26876295072359602212010-06-03T11:28:51.669-07:002010-06-03T11:28:51.669-07:00Part 2
It's a great sermon. It is deeply conv...<b>Part 2</b><br /><br />It's a great sermon. It is deeply convicting each time I hear it.<br /><br />However, it directly contradicts the position you have taken in this debate about television, a debate prompted by a particular show that is undeniably sexually immoral. As such, I am confused. Have you changed your position since November? Is passively watching television while exercising little to no discernment simply <b>not</b> one of the ways we can be conformed to the world? I don't understand the position Pyromaniacs is taking on this issue. It does not seem to square with your teaching from the pulpit.<br /><br />I'll close with another one of your quotes from that same sermon, to demonstrate, in your own words, how vitally important this is: "One of the biggest difficulties men these days struggle with is keeping a pure mind [...] and I've come to conclude that that probably, in our culture, in our time, is one of the number one sins that people struggle with perpetually."<br /><br />- Ricky, a slave of the Lord Jesus Christ.Rickyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05392060126733634746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-35925516066248878462010-06-03T11:27:28.572-07:002010-06-03T11:27:28.572-07:00Part 1
Pastor Phil, you preached, back in Novembe...<b>Part 1</b><br /><br />Pastor Phil, you preached, back in November 2009, a message entitled "Real Transformation" from Romans 12:1-2. (http://gracelifepulpit.media.s3.amazonaws.com/GL-2009-11-29-PJ.mp3) I will quote portions here, with timestamps:<br /><br />"Here is how redeemed people are supposed to live [...] In light of God's gracious justifying and sanctifying work on your behalf, in light of everything we've talked about for eleven chapters, Paul says, 'therefore I beseech you, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.' Since you've been justified freely by the grace of God, and since you've been united with Christ in His death and resurrection, Paul says it is only reasonable, it is only logical, it's only equitable that you render your bodies a living sacrifice to God. But notice, this is important, not only does Paul call us to present our bodies to God, he commands us to renew our minds for God, and you can't separate the two. You can't present your body to God if the mind working inside of it is defiled [...] Notice that there are two ways our minds can be influenced. We can either be influenced from the outside by the world through a worldly pressure that conforms us to a worldly standard, or we can be transformed from the inside out by the renewing of our minds. And, by the way, whether you realize it or not, one of those two things is currently happening to you. You are either passively allowing the world to conform you to its own evil standard, or you are actively renewing your mind by being transformed into greater and greater Christlikeness. There's no middle ground." [17:53 - 20:07]<br /><br />"The remnants of sinful corruption remain in us. Temptation still entices us, and if we neglect the means of our preservation, we can, to some degree, be conformed to this world, and that's what Paul is cautioning against us. As I said, this seems to be the peculiar failing of our generation [...] And so we see multitudes of people today who profess to be Christians but who are being conformed to the world, and in some cases, it seems like, deliberately so. They want to be as much like the world as possible [...] But that's not the way it ought to be. <i>We're not supposed to be indistinguishable from our unsaved neighbors. We're not supposed to immerse ourselves in the same kind of entertainment. We're not supposed to follow all the same fads. We're not supposed to have all the same interests.</i> In many ways, we have been not diligent enough to keep ourselves from being conformed to the world, and it is to our spiritual detriment. It is one of the reasons the testimony of the church in the world today is so weak. It reflects how cold our hearts are to the things of God. Remember, you cannot love this temporal world and all its fads and fashions, and still be a friend of God. You can't do it. We forget that sometimes. And if you know me at all, you know what a foe of legalism I am [...] and yet, in our zeal to guard our liberty, we must remember that there is a grave danger at the opposite end of the spectrum." [24:00 - 26:04]<br /><br /><b>cont...</b>Rickyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05392060126733634746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-46087077024436291212010-06-03T07:19:39.171-07:002010-06-03T07:19:39.171-07:00"Softcore pornography depicts nude and semi-n..."Softcore pornography depicts nude and semi-nude performers engaging in casual social nudity or non-graphic representations of sexual intercourse or masturbation."<br /><br />That's from answers.com, referencing wikipedia (note: the article contains a picture of naked male from the back). I suppose I need to look up "semi-nude", now, to learn how "Lost" doesn't fit that description to some degree?Rickyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05392060126733634746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1061547954638732042010-06-02T23:19:47.022-07:002010-06-02T23:19:47.022-07:00Ricky St. Claire,
No, Lost was not softcore porno...Ricky St. Claire,<br /><br />No, Lost was not softcore pornography. Please look up the definition. As has already been stated, that is not allowed on broadcast TV. Rated-R films, yes, broadcast TV like ABC, CBS, NBC, no.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.com