tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post5145498129014831668..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Two phases of Christian lifePhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger86125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-62578394747081689482008-07-23T02:22:00.000-07:002008-07-23T02:22:00.000-07:00trogdor - AMEN!!God's whole idea behind his chosen...trogdor - AMEN!!<BR/><BR/>God's whole idea behind his chosen community (this bride of Christ) is that we love and support and encourage and admonish each other to faith in Christ. In love. Through the Holy Spirit. Beautiful picture.<BR/><BR/>So let's read His word and seek Him anew daily. Great men and women of God knew their God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-44372641148898617972008-07-12T21:19:00.000-07:002008-07-12T21:19:00.000-07:00What a lover-ly picture you painted, Trogdor. Tha...What a lover-ly picture you painted, Trogdor. Thank you for sharing your thoughts--reading them really encourages and blesses me, especially when I am having an extremely hard time believing that God does not discipline me out of wrath but out of love.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08289347868497438542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-49936776922086590342008-07-12T08:29:00.000-07:002008-07-12T08:29:00.000-07:00Last weekend, my wife and I went to a family reuni...Last weekend, my wife and I went to a family reunion and saw a bunch of people we hadn't seen since our wedding ten months ago. Every ten minutes or so, someone would inform us that our obvious affection for each other was a sure sign we must be newlyweds, and we'd get sick of each other soon enough. "Oh, you still like each other? Yeah, that'll stop." The expectation for many of them was that marriage begins with all passion, but once you get to know each other and "reality" hits, at best you settle into a nice routine and tolerate each other, staying married out of convenience.<BR/><BR/>Then we spent some time with good friends that've been married about 30 years. They've been through trials like nobody should ever face (such as: of eight total pregnancies, only thee were born alive, and only one remains today) - they've faced "reality". And to hear them talk about marriage was so utterly different and incredibly encouraging. To them, they know each other better than they'd ever imagined possible - and instead of causing stagnation, it's driven their love to be ever deeper and more passionate.<BR/><BR/>So thinking through this post and the comments, those differing views on marriage keep coming up. For so many, it seems faith is like my extended family-in-law's view of marriage. Sure, it's passionate at first. But then real life hits, and you find out how things really are, and the excitement of the newness wears off and you just get used to it. The affections cool off or die entirely, and you settle into a routine (if you don't just walk away entirely). That's the expectation - and that's beyond sad. The thorny and rocky soils are not supposed to be the norm for either.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, there are those who come to faith with great joy. And the more they learn about God, and get to know Jesus, and go through all of life's trials - the deeper knowledge leads to deeper love and affection. Even in marriage to a sinful, imperfect person, it's possible - no, we should expect and not be satisfied with less - that greater familiarity breeds deeper love. Why should we settle for less with a perfectly lovely God? How can our affections not be inflamed when we see more of his glory?trogdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452996348717802065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51988070822284571422008-07-11T22:54:00.000-07:002008-07-11T22:54:00.000-07:00Nah, everyone is entitled to MY interpretation.Nah, <I>everyone</I> is entitled to MY interpretation.Hugh McBrydehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16926516260588481185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-14012568607377988982008-07-11T22:37:00.000-07:002008-07-11T22:37:00.000-07:00Hugh:I get what you're saying.But in this enlighte...Hugh:<BR/><BR/>I get what you're saying.<BR/><BR/>But in this enlightened, postmodern age, my interpretation is just as good as your interpretation. ;)<BR/><BR/>I blame Dan for being sufficiently vague as to not fully reveal authorial intent (which is just such...such a...<I>modernistic</I> concept anyhow).Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-44788298341286781942008-07-11T18:09:00.000-07:002008-07-11T18:09:00.000-07:00My conversion was, I believe, 10 years ago this mo...My conversion was, I believe, 10 years ago this month. <BR/><BR/>Started out very confused and struggling due to my analytical nature.<BR/><BR/>Over the years I've had to deal with disillusionment from others and remember we trust God, not people. This has been an ongoing process and it took years to get it through my thick skull. Sometimes I wonder if I "get it" now, even.<BR/><BR/>I think I'm gathering wood, looking for a lighter.Tim Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06771868540726222826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-34144841441265056772008-07-11T16:27:00.000-07:002008-07-11T16:27:00.000-07:00The LORD will supply all the wood needed to keep t...The LORD will supply all the wood needed to keep that fire burning bright.A.M. Malletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17354778419074793522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-26242383069977619662008-07-11T15:53:00.000-07:002008-07-11T15:53:00.000-07:00Both lack the spark that comes from the match...Je...Both lack the spark that comes from the match...Jesus Christ!<BR/><BR/>What good will EITHER do if Jesus is missing?<BR/><BR/>But to answer somewhat, I find that people that have "no fire" tend to be solid Biblically but are somehow "Retired." I guess they never read the end of Joshua). The "all fire no wood" tend to be the ones who look for the rollercoaster ride of "spirituality."<BR/><BR/>My two cents...and as a college student that means I now have no money. Thanks a lot guys.A. Yepizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00472318573749665473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-493046086041217332008-07-11T14:21:00.000-07:002008-07-11T14:21:00.000-07:00Michelle,Thank you for praying. The problems, as ...Michelle,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for praying. The problems, as you have so perceptively pointed out in the form of questions, have to do with with church and the Word. I'm in a situation where my hurts were compounded by certain people that I haven't gone back to my old church in about a year. (I started fading in and out over three years ago, starting with the first heart-wrenching hurt, but last year saw a definite cut-off point in my attendance.) Even though I still attend church services (just not there), things just haven't been the same. Not surprisingly, it's been hard to concentrate on the Word. The passages that I cited in my first comment of this thread are passages that have appeared "randomly" to me frequently throughout this period and the 1-2 years before it. (I say "randomly" because sometimes I would just open my bible randomly and these verses would come into view--and they seem to speak straight to me!) Praying has also been hard (which is why Dan's "prayer" post several days ago was a good reminder not to give up). <BR/><BR/>Anyway, TIWIARN. I don't intend to stay in my own Stage 1A, but so far I see myself as those Israelites in Isaiah's days who were ever seeing and hearing but never perceiving and understanding (Isa. 6:9-10). I know I wasn't completely right in how I handled certain things, but some things can never return to the way they should have been, and I'm at a loss as to what to do from this point on. May the Lord lift me out of this pit safely and soon--by increasing my desire to trust him in everything again.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08289347868497438542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-60658235405882347392008-07-11T06:59:00.000-07:002008-07-11T06:59:00.000-07:00Susan:Our fire is fanned through perseverance and ...Susan:<BR/><BR/>Our fire is fanned through perseverance and our sanctification is accomplished by the Truth, the Word of God. Are you in the Word? Are you meeting with other believers? <BR/><BR/>Obedience/walking in His ways is a choice, no matter the circumstances we face. I have always found that when I stray away from Him, the Holy Spirit draws me back like a magnet. Resisting is a choice to disobey but I'm never content until I submit once more to Him.<BR/><BR/>If you belong to Him, may you be who you are. I'll pray.Michellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00168363955644093592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-71664505044842838892008-07-11T01:32:00.000-07:002008-07-11T01:32:00.000-07:00I just reread my comments above and realized that ...I just reread my comments above and realized that perhaps a clarification is needed: when I referred to "giving up", I was thinking about my faith and circumstances, NOT my mortality. Not that anyone would necessarily misconstrue it that way, but just thought I'd make it clearer.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08289347868497438542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-60229723648330203242008-07-11T00:38:00.000-07:002008-07-11T00:38:00.000-07:00Stefan, I sincerely believe that a good deal of th...Stefan, I sincerely believe that a good deal of the disillusionment that characterizes many "Stage Twoers" comes from discovering they've been given pat answers and no one wishes to discuss the difficulties with those pat answers.<BR/><BR/>There's still a lot of bad doctrine out there that we've been telling ourselves is good doctrine, because it was certified by such and such confession or has the weight of history behind it.<BR/><BR/>I ask constantly, "What have we reformed lately" and the answers I get back amount to "nothing, because even though we say we're not perfect in doctrine, that's just for show, we really are."Hugh McBrydehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16926516260588481185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-57035842843673419102008-07-10T23:42:00.000-07:002008-07-10T23:42:00.000-07:00That's "I've become increasingly hardened".That's "I've become increasingly hardened".Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08289347868497438542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-75844575284118409372008-07-10T23:41:00.000-07:002008-07-10T23:41:00.000-07:00I, too, have a stage 1A, but only applicable to my...I, too, have a stage 1A, but only applicable to myself:<BR/><BR/>Not much fire, not much wood.<BR/><BR/>I'm in the backsliding phase.<BR/><BR/>No, I never wanted this to happen--many unpleasant things have happened within the last 3-4 years and I've becoming increasingly hardened. I'm close to giving up. Yet the strange thing is whenever I feel like giving up completely, I remember that HE CAN, even when I can't.<BR/><BR/>I guess I still have a bit of embers left. Better do something about it before it's too late! (Hosea 14, Jeremiah 31:18-20, Ezekiel 33:10-11)Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08289347868497438542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-27693558952051634052008-07-10T22:47:00.000-07:002008-07-10T22:47:00.000-07:00Three necessary elements for fire: heat, fuel, and...Three necessary elements for fire: heat, fuel, and oxygen. Who provides the fuel (wood)? Who provides the heat? Who provides the oxygen? In what sphere does our responsibility belong? <BR/>The times in my life that there has been very little flame is when I have tried to separate the elements that I have been freely given (a fire that I have no ability to put out completely). I will stop and enjoy the fire that I have not earned.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10044277928052759074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-65448858531960225152008-07-10T22:18:00.000-07:002008-07-10T22:18:00.000-07:00Hugh and Danny2: I hope the kind of lazy disengage...Hugh and Danny2: I hope the kind of lazy disengagement or jaded disillusionment you describe is not what Dan was referring to.<BR/><BR/>The passing of that flash-in-the-pan first blush of love is probably part of the natural cycle of life (unless brought on by backsliding).<BR/><BR/>The key is to hold on to that joyful exuberance, but let love for the Lord mature from initial excitement to deepening obedience.<BR/><BR/>I think of the older believers in my church—the ones who have been walking in God's ways for decades. The fire still burns in them, but it is tempered by the experience gained from a lifetime of living out the Word of God in their ministries, work, families, and the world. As others have alluded to, they're more like greyed-over charcoals, which burn hot but give off no flame.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-70184747983415894852008-07-10T22:07:00.000-07:002008-07-10T22:07:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-27154222959843635002008-07-10T21:38:00.000-07:002008-07-10T21:38:00.000-07:00You don't need a match to start a fire, man. You ...You don't need a match to start a fire, man. You use your tongue.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09456884689908680100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-22899613902180552652008-07-10T20:01:00.000-07:002008-07-10T20:01:00.000-07:00i had this conversation with an older pastor one d...i had this conversation with an older pastor one day. he was going on and on about how some day i won't be as sure about things. as i "mature," the fire will die out some. he shared stories about how the fire used to burn bright and strong with him but how in his older age the fire has died down.<BR/><BR/>(the hard thing is, though...i don't really want to become a pastor like this man. in fact, the pastors i really admire seem to have more fire and more wood later in their life.)<BR/><BR/>when he finished sharing, i just had one question for him...<BR/><BR/>"do you miss the old days when you had fire?"<BR/><BR/>he stared at the table and softly said "yes."danny2https://www.blogger.com/profile/13010556674654842010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-30921270096731470612008-07-10T19:52:00.000-07:002008-07-10T19:52:00.000-07:00Stage one is self explanatory for anyone who has f...Stage one is self explanatory for anyone who has flirted with stage two. Stage two is because you think the reformation is over.Hugh McBrydehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16926516260588481185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-48815339270338346282008-07-10T19:13:00.000-07:002008-07-10T19:13:00.000-07:00By the way, when I wrote "lots of knowledge" above...By the way, when I wrote "lots of knowledge" above, that should be read as: "less knowledge than a gnat's, compared to anyone else who reads this blog."Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-9138719657235989092008-07-10T18:54:00.000-07:002008-07-10T18:54:00.000-07:00Dan,Has anyone told you that you resemble Kevin Yo...<I>Dan,<BR/><BR/>Has anyone told you that you resemble Kevin Youkalis, first baseman, Boston Redsox?</I><BR/><BR/>All the time.<BR/><BR/>Or, more accurately: no.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-35798802053768736242008-07-10T18:52:00.000-07:002008-07-10T18:52:00.000-07:00Hey noiz, keep the zeal brother! I'm praying for y...Hey noiz, keep the zeal brother! I'm praying for you. :)~Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01819856178499938127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-41161894863508713192008-07-10T18:25:00.000-07:002008-07-10T18:25:00.000-07:00As I have slowly read over all the comments, I see...As I have slowly read over all the comments, I see a pattern: many people started out zealous for the Lord but naive theologically, with deepening theology being part of the maturation process.<BR/><BR/>For me, I've gone through the general pattern described by Dan and others, but the specifics have been different. I was led by God to a crash course in the doctrines of grace so soon after my rebirth (it took all of five months), that the "early zeal for the Lord" phase of my walk was characterized by rapid eating up of heavy theology and church history, but with very weak practical application: lots of <I>knowledge,</I> but very little <I>wisdom.</I><BR/><BR/>The maturation phase (which I am only at the very tippy-toe shallow end of), for me, is about learning how to live out my knowledge in practice, and, to pick up on Rick Potter's quote, to square perseverance with "the numberless admonitions of the Holy Scriptures."<BR/><BR/>For me, the flames are the knowledge. The wood is the wisdom. To put it another way: an immature Calvinist talks the walk. A mature Calvinist walks the talk.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-928656184621575792008-07-10T17:52:00.000-07:002008-07-10T17:52:00.000-07:00I'd been doing a little reading and decided to pop...I'd been doing a little reading and decided to pop in and see what was going on at Pyro. This was the last thing I read before coming here......very prophetic Dan!<BR/><BR/>"Anyone who sees a contradiction between the [Reformed] doctrine of perseverance and the numberless admonitions of the Holy Scriptures, has abstracted perseverance from faith. Faith itself can do nothing else than listen to those admonitions and so travel the road of abiding in him. For admonition distinguishes the true confidence, which looks for everything from grace, and the other “possibility,” which is rejected on the basis of Christ and the Church. So admonition is at the same time both remembrance and a calling. It points out the way of error to those who travel the way of salvation, and it exhorts them to keep going only in the true way.… These admonitions, too, have as their end the perseverance of the Church, which precisely in this way is established in that single direction, which is and which must remain irreversible—the direction from death to life!"<BR/><BR/><BR/>G. C. Berkouwer, Faith and Perseverance (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans, 1958), 116–17, 121<BR/><BR/>Source: Reymond, R. L. (1998). A new systematic theology of the Christian faith.Rick Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12525495561013100331noreply@blogger.com