tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post51664606626612205..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Pyro brain trust forum: what Bible version, and why?Phil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger104125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-12023864957407842642012-07-30T08:47:07.421-07:002012-07-30T08:47:07.421-07:00Not a pastor, but just sharing what our church doe...Not a pastor, but just sharing what our church does...<br /><br />Most public reading and PowerPoint slides use NIV1984. (We don't have pew Bibles, or pews for that matter.)<br /><br />However, there is an increasing use of the ESV.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11507675892323192121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-68414394415135837242012-07-25T07:51:16.640-07:002012-07-25T07:51:16.640-07:00I've just found a copy of Richmond Lattimore&#...I've just found a copy of Richmond Lattimore's NT cheaply, which I was interested in a while back. I don't know Greek but I like the sound of his methodology and Greek credentials.I confess to being a bit concerned that he was probably not a believer..."“I have held throughout to the principle of keeping as close to the Greek as possible, not only for sense and for individual words, but in the belief that fidelity to the original word order and syntax may yield an English prose that to some extent reflects the style of the original.”Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14063611909779154899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-75262762231241144852012-07-25T07:49:17.523-07:002012-07-25T07:49:17.523-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10072115214715540701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-32085437657894891462012-07-24T05:54:59.472-07:002012-07-24T05:54:59.472-07:00Of course I do use other translations for other pu...Of course I do use other translations for other purposes as do many in the church. I also emphasize the importance of preaching the KJV instead of constantly preaching <i>about</i> the KJV. A fact lost on many good brethren in my neck of the woods.Jessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15128574866014848075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-86039335751230951982012-07-24T05:51:30.243-07:002012-07-24T05:51:30.243-07:00KJV
I pastor a small isolated rural Baptist chur...KJV <br /><br />I pastor a small isolated rural Baptist church of the independent (little i) variety. This area, and many in my church, has a long standing tradition of KJV-Onlyism so I use the KJV as a missionary would a Chinese Bible. <br /><br />However, I too think it's as good if not better than pretty much the rest of the translations and I find that using it keeps you above the translation fights. Of course someone will probably come along and start hurling insults about unicorns and such any minute...<br /><br />Regardless it is familiar, part of our English vernacular, ripe with theological language, and, hey, it sounds like Bible. ;)Jessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15128574866014848075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-62805731616808545752012-07-19T13:12:29.375-07:002012-07-19T13:12:29.375-07:00Sorry, Dan, didn't mean to derail the conversa...Sorry, Dan, didn't mean to derail the conversation and bring out the haters. I thought Wilson's input was thoughtful and valuable. <br /><br />Manfred, I didn't pump "solo Wilson gloria," I simply thought he put forth a thorough argument for preaching from KJV. No need to step outside the realm of what Dan is asking for.Monique Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06398886527289107528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80072939339955403692012-07-19T12:50:31.403-07:002012-07-19T12:50:31.403-07:00The problem with Doug Wilson is not his fondness f...The problem with Doug Wilson is not his fondness for KJV (a good, but not the ONLY good English Bible - see James White's discussion on this). The problem with Wilson is his heretical Federal Vision and belief in baptismal regeneration.Stuart Brogdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05293983517209519257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-4000878079289073282012-07-19T12:46:36.943-07:002012-07-19T12:46:36.943-07:00Hi Dan,
Doug Wilson actually preached a sermon on...Hi Dan,<br /><br />Doug Wilson actually preached a sermon on why he uses the KJV. I'd add a link or what not, but that is most certainly my husband's arena. (I think he'd be impressed I knew how to comment anyhow.) I believe you can look up Doug's sermons on canon wired press. And with care not to speak without authority, I do remember one of Doug's several reasons for his KJV choice; It is the only translation that was written under the church's authority. All "modern" translations were translated with input from well educated people, but without the direct oversight and authority of the church. (Hence all the screwy pronouns, word changings, bad idioms, etc.) Now...before someone starts lambasting Wilson, that is what I REMEMBER him saying, not, necessarily what he said verbatim, so if there is fault with the above statement, it is mine. Maybe one of you techie people can look up his sermon and link.Monique Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06398886527289107528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-45022917267994782952012-07-19T11:55:39.094-07:002012-07-19T11:55:39.094-07:00I wonder if there will be NIV-only people in exist...I wonder if there will be NIV-only people in existence 200 years from now? After all they'll have to have some archaic version to migrate to, once the KJV language is totally inaccessible.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-62726841211595898722012-07-19T11:51:07.987-07:002012-07-19T11:51:07.987-07:00I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the inst...I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the instructions are given out to legitimate Greek experts at a new Bible translation launch meeting.<br /><br /><i>"Okay, ladies and gentlemen, here we go. Remember to NOT make your translations correct. <br /><br />"Avoid outright heresy if you can, but throw a little Stephen King or, no, better yet John Grisham in there. He really resonates with those folks who really don't want to read their Bibles.<br /><br />"When deciding between 'flesh' and 'sin nature', use the latter. Nobody knows what 'flesh' means anyway.<br /><br />"And when God breathed 'man', we all know He really meant 'people', so don't get hung up on that ancient language that you've spent 40 years trying to learn the nuances of. <br /><br />"Greek schmeek. What we need is a best seller!"</i><br /><br />In the Primary for accurate translations, I vote NASB. But if it isn't nominated for the Accurate Party, I'll vote for anything to avoid the Obaminable new NIV in the final election.Terry Rayburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00888533194435826837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-38008234006453797442012-07-19T11:00:37.393-07:002012-07-19T11:00:37.393-07:00SBFA, that isn't a bad idea, and I've sugg...SBFA, that isn't a bad idea, and I've suggested similarly. Read the ESV as a translation, and the NIV as a commentary.<br /><br />I'd rather they call it the "NIT" (New International Targum).DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-45175454759780302472012-07-19T10:47:57.678-07:002012-07-19T10:47:57.678-07:00I'm not a pastor, nor am I at all familiar wit...I'm not a pastor, nor am I at all familiar with the original tongues.<br /><br />So with that caveat...<br /><br />My kids have been using the NKJV for their National Bible Bee memorization. They chose that version because that's what they had been learning in AWANA. It seems (to this layman) that it's a fairly decent translation. Much more faithful (in my estimation) than the NIV-84, and more readable than the NASB. <br /><br />I do wish they had made the switch to the ESV, since it seems less wordy than the NKJV and could probably be memorized easier.Mike Westfallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06944727980772754938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-39565261211272854322012-07-19T10:34:57.244-07:002012-07-19T10:34:57.244-07:00If you don't mind the amateur (lay person) per...If you don't mind the amateur (lay person) perspective, I often find great edification and (prayerfully) a spiritually lead understanding by using both the NIV and the ESV side by side when studying scripture.<br /><br />My reading of Kevin DeYoung’s book taught me that the ESV is a word-for-word (largely literal) translation; while the NIV is a though-for-thought interpretation; both are of the original Hebrew and Greek.<br /><br />In a way, this ESV/NIV amalgamation (of a sort)creates a synergy of understanding for me when I consider the more literal words of the ESV against the NIV translator’s best guess as to the thoughts of the inspired author. By synergy, I mean that when I read several verses in the ESV, I mentally classify the text as being largely “the words” used in the original language. When the same verses are then read from the NIV; I remind myself I’m reading the NIV translation team’s best guess as to the thoughts and intentions of the inspired author. Using these ESV and NIV lenses together helps me to mentally create a third version (of sorts) in my mind. Always keeping in mind that contradiction is simply impossible.<br /><br />Now, at the great risk of displaying my scriptural naiveté, I’ve yet to find any tangible disagreement or controversy between these two translations. However, if the Lord is willing, I will spend a lifetime looking…<br /><br />In Christ,<br /><br />Dan H.Saved By Faith Alonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09220395906365783165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-32591187326983965802012-07-19T09:55:05.439-07:002012-07-19T09:55:05.439-07:00In the military I would give out the NLT because t...In the military I would give out the NLT because the guys who read it seemed to really grasp the language.<br /><br />Entering the pastorate I went back and forth. I grew up in a church where you either read the NIV or the KJV. There was no controversy involved, but those were the options. I still have my old beat up NIV Study Bible and often use it, though not for preaching.<br /><br />While our pew bibles are KJV I have noted that most of the Bibles carried by members are NIV. I gave a lot of time to considering ESV, NASB and HCSB as well as the NKJV and finally settled on the ESV though recently I have switched to the NASB. <br /><br />I am not up on Greek and Hebrew, but the deciding factor for me was that my NASB puts question marked verses in the text in parentheses rather than in foot notes. Then I don't miss anything in my study. <br /><br />I am sure as I proceed with Greek and Hebrew studies in the coming years my understanding of translation will be flipped upside down.Thomas Goldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04211279300377927667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-63154538782240196552012-07-19T09:29:42.383-07:002012-07-19T09:29:42.383-07:00I use the ESV for two major reasons:
1.) It is the...I use the ESV for two major reasons:<br />1.) It is the most literary of the "essentially literal" translations.<br />2.) It is the version our pastor preaches from and as a teacher of a 70 member adult Sunday School class, I think it wise to be consistent with the pastor.<br /><br />The problem with the NIV is that it is a commentary within the text, and the separation of that commentary from the text is not transparent.<br /><br />Does the ESV have questionable choices in translation? Of course it does as do all others. It is wise to keep in mind that just as an English word may have multiple definitions (or shades of meaning), so do Greek and Hebrew words. All that being said, I believe the ESV is the best choice. It is essential to know what Scripture says and not what some one says it says.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11853736948439402934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-66367848225538553592012-07-19T05:59:51.506-07:002012-07-19T05:59:51.506-07:00Stealing a Bible. Just... wow.Stealing a Bible. Just... wow.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-35443622773128226752012-07-18T18:20:55.477-07:002012-07-18T18:20:55.477-07:00Before salvation I was given a military Good News ...Before salvation I was given a military Good News Bible with stick figures. As an infant believer I started with the NIV for 3 years, then as a gift to attend Bible college my inlaws gave me a NKJ Ryrie study Bible, which I enjoyed for the same reasons you stated, but alas it was stolen while at school (I hope they enjoyed it as much as I did). I replaced it with an NIV study Bible but never felt confident with the translation and in my first senior pastorate and after much research I bought a KJV. I have preached from this version for 10 years and have enjoyed studying and preaching from it. Most of my flock use it as well but with new believers I can see where the old English is difficult to understand even for common English terms such as "holden" or "concupiscence", let alone doctrinal terms. I wish that Way of The Master would publish their Evidence Bible without the evidence material as an option since it is a "comfort-able" more common vernacular KJV. An excellent read.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12880717898080480144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-49858916885914775952012-07-18T14:01:45.246-07:002012-07-18T14:01:45.246-07:00"I'm living by my wits"
"Oh wel..."I'm living by my wits"<br />"Oh well, half a living's better than none!"Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-83097427552726455532012-07-18T13:16:56.360-07:002012-07-18T13:16:56.360-07:00Or at least half so.
(c;Or at least half so.<br /><br />(c;DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-28293097918562002012-07-18T13:13:25.196-07:002012-07-18T13:13:25.196-07:00I was tempted to do a YouTube video of Willie sing...I was tempted to do a YouTube video of Willie singing "all my exes read the Textus" but I realized how very, very few would get the joke! <br />Frank is a very witty man.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-77069089776860702722012-07-18T13:01:27.592-07:002012-07-18T13:01:27.592-07:00Some of these comments are cracking me up.
Includi...Some of these comments are cracking me up.<br />Including, I say almost with shame, Frank's Texas Receptus gag.Rhologyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-21737924472133569652012-07-18T12:11:08.470-07:002012-07-18T12:11:08.470-07:00As someone who has NOT had seminary training/Hebre...As someone who has NOT had seminary training/Hebrew or Greek, I have tended to stick exclusively with the NASB when teaching, as (at least for many of us lay-folks who get charged with teaching now and then), we've always heard it's a word-for-word translation and of good repute (except with the KJV only crowd) (of whom I am shocked that they haven't chimed in yet) (please excuse all these brackets). <br /><br />I find it sad that translators just can't simply translate what the Hebrew and Greek say and mean. I realize that there are some things that might not be easy to express cleanly in English (I experience that often when helping Russian co-workers with English). But I think you could certainly get the correct meaning across without altering the text or the meaning - and that is my biggest fear as an ignoramus on the biblical languages. Someone slipping into a passage a meaning not intended by the writer.Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-43016939296074566832012-07-18T10:29:27.092-07:002012-07-18T10:29:27.092-07:00Full disclosure: I am a pastor, but I don't kn...Full disclosure: I am a pastor, but I don't know Hebrew or Greek, so I need/use tools to help me wrestle with the nuances of the original languages. Our church uses the NKJV during our public meetings. My perspective is that the best translation philosophy:<br />(1) Holds the word as the unit of inspiration (word-for-word). When Jesus makes an argument based solely on a single verb tense of Scripture (Matthew 22:31-32), and Paul makes an argument based solely on one word of Scripture being singular versus plural (Galatians 3:16), I don't know how to get around that. Most of the translations mentioned prominently so far, with the exception of the NIV, pass that test.<br />(2) Holds to the concept of providential preservation, meaning that God did not leave His people without the best manuscripts for many centuries. It is more believable to me that God kept the best texts in use than that even the best and most godly scholars are able to determine which texts are "oldest and best." That knocks out NAS and ESV, though I consult those each week, since their renderings are excellent, helpful, and sometimes superior on the overwhelming majority of the instances where the underlying text isn't in question.Jason Dohmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03327237282610455800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-16715414321091257162012-07-18T07:23:52.765-07:002012-07-18T07:23:52.765-07:00Thanks Dan. That is helpful as usual. I wouldn'...Thanks Dan. That is helpful as usual. I wouldn't be too surprised that feminist or other "let's not offend anyone" thinking sneaks its way into Bible translation, especially since the committees used are probably populated with liberally-inclined PhD-types in certain cases. <br />You have straightened my thinking out Biblically on a number of subjects, and I always seem to learn something useful from reading your posts. Thank you.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33881079313590666542012-07-18T06:20:20.907-07:002012-07-18T06:20:20.907-07:00I didn't heed your admonishment, and realize m...I didn't heed your admonishment, and realize my comment doesn't engage the post -- delete or ignore at will. :o)Carl C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02186935981253723026noreply@blogger.com