tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post5197104047455582052..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: "Mamma Don't Let your Babies Grow Up to Be Pastors" — discussPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger92125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-37916430567764993522008-11-26T18:34:00.000-08:002008-11-26T18:34:00.000-08:00Well, this has been discussed from all angles, and...Well, this has been discussed from all angles, and I should have said my peace earlier before everyone got into the Calvinism or Scripture posts.<BR/><BR/>I think the video was a good point of challenge for pastors about where our focus is. I do not think that this was something that needed to be posted or emailed unto all people. This was something that I watched, laughed at, then thought about. That's what a good satirical look is supposed to do. This was an overdone caricature. I've done that kind of thing to drive home a point as well.<BR/><BR/>The issue for me is one of motivation, which we can't know for certain, but I question why this video is circulating the internet, and, at last check, on Youtube. (along with some others from the same church). This is not something that is going to spread the Gospel to anyone, but rather cause a lost and dying world to have one more reason to hold God's church in contempt.<BR/><BR/>In other words: if I had seen this at a pastor's conference or back in seminary days, I would have taken it as a challenge to not go that far, and to remove the stinkin' phone from its implant status on the side of my head. Now, I'm thinking that when someone in my community sees me on my phone, they'll be thinking about this video, about me neglecting my family, about making ministry all about me, rather than realizing that I, just like many others, forget what my wife sent me to Wal-mart for, and have to call and ask. <BR/><BR/>Sorry to waffle on it, but that's how I see it. I worked on a project in seminary that created a satire of certain church-planting methods, but you've most likely never seen it. The professor has the only copy (it was on a vhs tape), and he uses it in class to make a point. If he put it on Youtube, I'd be ashamed. Why? Because somethings are family business, and we don't need to air that out in front of everybody else.Doug Hibbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01099486048716032843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-8431653927705100962008-11-26T07:06:00.000-08:002008-11-26T07:06:00.000-08:00Many are called, but few can stand it...Many are called, but few can stand it...Tim Bushonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10361674501531239434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-76679026111019221872008-11-25T15:20:00.000-08:002008-11-25T15:20:00.000-08:00"Molly said, It takes a special breed to be h..."Molly said, It takes a special breed to be happy as a pastor's wife.<BR/><BR/>Agreed. We would call such a woman, "Spirit filled", and anyone else, carnal. < grin >"<BR/><BR/>Sweet :D<BR/><BR/>Dan, you said...<BR/><BR/><I>Two of the myths that thrive in dark corners of "evangelicalism":<BR/><BR/>1. Pastors by and large are worthless, useless, hypocritical, vain, arrogant, self-entered blow-hards.<BR/><BR/>2. Women by and large are martyred, oppressed, abused saints who would be best-served if they were put at the command-center of the universe.</I><BR/><BR/>The first one's a myth? Seriously? I would have bought that as solid fact - with the proviso that it is acknowledged that they are such, no more uniquely than the rest of humanity. We are a fallen race.<BR/><BR/>The second I would amend to;<BR/><BR/>Women by and large <B>believe</B> they are martyred, oppressed, abused saints who would be best-served if they were put at the command-center of the universe, because they are, after all, born with the sinful nature of Eve, the first woman to be deceived in this way, and the very reason they are denied the pulpit ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-19138304759315373772008-11-25T12:54:00.000-08:002008-11-25T12:54:00.000-08:00My Dad was a pastor, and he Dad and Mom raised two...My Dad was a pastor, and he Dad and Mom raised two pastors. And I thought the video was great. True also. My wife and I of 40 years saw the humor and truthfulness in it. HAY a little truth doesn't hear.Charles e. Whisnanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08110548370691986584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-64744929205524118712008-11-25T10:57:00.000-08:002008-11-25T10:57:00.000-08:00I will try this again without the typos.Molly said...I will try this again without the typos.<BR/><BR/>Molly said, <I>It takes a special breed to be happy as a pastor's wife.</I><BR/><BR/>Agreed. We would call such a woman, "Spirit filled", and anyone else, carnal. <grin>Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06734845463331170748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-62131690198826762912008-11-25T10:56:00.000-08:002008-11-25T10:56:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06734845463331170748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-49218495119817069512008-11-25T08:47:00.000-08:002008-11-25T08:47:00.000-08:00As a (TMS grad) pastor's wife, I have to say that ...As a (TMS grad) pastor's wife, I have to say that this is so far from my experience! Can I just take a moment to praise my husband for shepherding me and my family? <BR/><BR/>Because of the unity and love in our family, the people in the church would have to love and respect my husband even more...thus furthering the cause of Christ. We open our home to many (and yes stay late and fellowship after church with four kids under five years). I hope that people will see how to "do family life" by observing the way my husband loves and leads our family. I couldn't resist posting here. I love my husband!!! : )Tiffanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02865323159545914643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-44338461755235016172008-11-25T08:20:00.000-08:002008-11-25T08:20:00.000-08:00My $.02:Hilarious video. Good caricature based fir...My $.02:<BR/><BR/>Hilarious video. Good caricature based firmly in reality. The boy and the Bible and the girl baptizing the baby were great. BTW, I've heard of pastors kids "playing church" and "baptizing" and "marrying" other kids. I know from having talked to my pastor how many calls he gets from so-called members he's never met in his 20 years of pastoring here who want a funeral or a wedding. BTW, I had this conversation with him on a mission trip that he WASN'T leading.<BR/><BR/>We have a full staff here and they stay busy, but most of our ministries, particularly missions, are lay-led, and I know this is rare. Here as we approach our Christmas concert series, several of us typically fuss at our worship leader for spending too much time worrying over the details while there's plenty of us around to take care of the minutia. He needs to go home and enjoy his family.<BR/><BR/>I would that congregations would be more like Cadillacs to be driven rather than herds of cattle to be prodded. A pastor that lives like the pastor in this video has a congregation that's not being the Body of Christ.Jim Pembertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01446388434272680014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-2120226476565522962008-11-25T07:05:00.000-08:002008-11-25T07:05:00.000-08:00Yes, Stratagem, while there are overlaps, there is...Yes, Stratagem, while there are overlaps, there is a difference between my role here and yours.<BR/><BR/>You might also have noted I had already taken off after another person for sneering at everyone who took the video more seriously than he did. Though I always value your contributions, how could I take off after the other fellow, then shrug when you did basically the same thing (though less sneeringly)?<BR/><BR/>So if the pressing thing you feel the need to say is that anyone who doesn't take the video as lightly as you did, then they must be taking themselves too seriously, you've said it. Now, please, leave it.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-32372231586918191552008-11-25T06:49:00.000-08:002008-11-25T06:49:00.000-08:00Dude, read your invitation again.It says, "Some re...<I>Dude, read your invitation again.<BR/><BR/>It says, "Some really good folks are really loving this... I'm having a set of differing reactions. ...What's your response, and why?"<BR/><BR/>What did you think of the video?<BR/><BR/>Not "What do you think about other people's responses to the video?"</I><BR/><BR/>Dan (or, "Dude", if you prefer) I thought I saw you write something agreeing with how another person took the video, rather than simply your own thoughts. So this may be a matter of you didn't like what I say and you are trying to make this a case of "do as I say, not as I do."<BR/>My point was, most of the people on here did take the video with a healthy sense of self-deprecating humor; kudos. To those who didn't, I would ask you to consider if you would have had the same response to a similar video about used-car salesmen (or cowboys, as the original song lyricized). If not, then this is not a stand on principle, it is simply a case of not liking the idea of having your <I>own</I> profession criticized, even good-naturedly.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-59510344213368864702008-11-25T05:31:00.000-08:002008-11-25T05:31:00.000-08:00I had drafted a very long comment, then (after a g...I had drafted a very long comment, then (after a good sleep) realized I could say it much more briefly. To wit:<BR/><BR/>Two of the myths that thrive in dark corners of "evangelicalism":<BR/><BR/>1. Pastors by and large are worthless, useless, hypocritical, vain, arrogant, self-entered blow-hards.<BR/><BR/>2. Women by and large are martyred, oppressed, abused saints who would be best-served if they were put at the command-center of the universe.<BR/><BR/>While (A) some of the scenes are undeniably funny, and (B) IF taken as a warning against foolish and abusive lone-wolf workaholism among pastors it makes a valid point, I see this video as feeding, rather than challenging, these myths.<BR/><BR/>The result would be simply to pile on further guilt, misery, doubt, indecision and self-reproach to pastors already inclined that way; and to feed bitter, resentful, rebellious unbelief in women already inclined that way.<BR/><BR/>None of which do I see as actually serving God nor the church.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-6921985933107167712008-11-24T20:04:00.000-08:002008-11-24T20:04:00.000-08:00Kirby,Can't argue with your quote. Not sure why y...Kirby,<BR/>Can't argue with your quote. Not sure why you thought it would offend me, but rest assured, no offense taken ;-)<BR/><BR/>No doubt there is a lot of joy in the journey. I just didn't like the video, and in a larger sense the fact that it fairly accurately represented the expectations that a pastor should not be expected to have joy in anything but the church.<BR/><BR/>FWIW, I am a true pastor's wife - and an honest one. There is a ton of stress associated with the calling. While I call myself a PW, more accurately, I am my husband's wife and will follow him and serve with him wherever the Lord decides, whether that's in full time ministry (as it has been for the past 23yrs) or in some other job.<BR/><BR/>Blessings!Mx5https://www.blogger.com/profile/05252209541546634027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-43575902974868713102008-11-24T19:34:00.000-08:002008-11-24T19:34:00.000-08:00No, Tom and Dan, I'm NOT a "similarly-obsessed wei...No, Tom and Dan, I'm NOT a "similarly-obsessed weirdo" as Tom would describe it. Tom does have a point, however: What DOES Mr. Phillips think about it?<BR/><BR/>(Or, even better, what does MRS. Phillips think about it?)Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08289347868497438542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33102548242201135032008-11-24T17:32:00.000-08:002008-11-24T17:32:00.000-08:00I think the video is campy and mocks the behaviors...I think the video is campy and mocks the behaviors of the pastor and his wife. <BR/><BR/>But the interesting thing about that is that the 'over the top' caricatures and situations and behavior (i.e., suit & tie in bed, kid hiding his bible or baptizing her doll) are great material to get (potential) real conversations going about what constitutes appropriate boundaries and behaviors.bLive As Ifhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14292061310319630822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-25776339895454527272008-11-24T16:28:00.000-08:002008-11-24T16:28:00.000-08:00Dan, I'm with Tom on with this one. I have just s...Dan, I'm with Tom on with this one. I have just sat through 76 comments (yawn!) and not read what you thought yourself. Uncharitable of you, that is.<BR/><BR/>Personally (just so I'm in with the rules..) I thought it well portrayed what goes on when pastors have a skewed idea of what their "ministry" entails. It would seem that those who are genuine in their desire to serve the church often take on the role of all of these;<BR/><BR/><I>And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;<BR/><BR/> 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ</I><BR/><BR/>Those "in the ministry" who are glory seeking lovers of money will obviously suffer the same fate, but may take it more as par for the course.<BR/><BR/>my 2cents ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-44943026231859238912008-11-24T15:37:00.000-08:002008-11-24T15:37:00.000-08:00In a study done on Christian marriages, missionary...In a study done on Christian marriages, missionary husbands and wives rated the highest satisfaction on their marriages. Pastor's wives were the WORST. The funny thing is, the pastors themselves rated their marriages pretty high! Their wives didn't think so, though...<BR/><BR/>Fact is, you're not allowed to show your real feelings when you are a pastor's wife. Some of the commenters here show why: pastor's wives are NOT ALLOWED to not like their job, they are NOT ALLOWED to express their real thoughts and feelings...unless they want their spirituality called into question.<BR/> <BR/><BR/> And she's not allowed to be a part of "the ministry", either, unless it's in "PW-approved" territory, like, say, leading a children's choir, playing piano, or running a nursery. If she doesn't find great fulfillment there, so what? SHe has to do it anyway (or face the disapproval of the congregation). IT's just better for her if she fakes that she loves it. Trust me.<BR/><BR/>If she's a theologian type or a leader, she might as well just put a paper bag over her head. She'll be a much better "support role" that way, because believe me, there's no room for you in the church world if you are a PW who actually enjoys theology or have the gift of administration or leadership. It's hard enough to be a *normal* woman in the church with those gifts, let alone be the wife-who-lives-in-the-fish-bowl. <BR/><BR/>When it comes to parenting, might as well call yourself a single mom. Including when you go on church camping trips or do anything else with your church family. Keep that in mind before you pop out those babies. Don't think of church "family activities" as time to be together as a family. Ha. What is that, anyway?<BR/><BR/>For those who tell the women to buck up and be more spiritual, why don't you spend a year in their shoes, and then say that. <BR/><BR/>It takes a special breed to be happy as a pastor's wife. <BR/><BR/>And it should cause all of us to seriously question the kind of model that makes for this unhappy of a life. <BR/><BR/>(Can you tell I was a pastor's wife or what?)...Alaskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05493872411356521812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-81283443791457398342008-11-24T14:14:00.000-08:002008-11-24T14:14:00.000-08:00I confess, I continue to check out the thread to s...I confess, I continue to check out the thread to see what Dan is going to say...<BR/><BR/>Plus I like the word verification... It says, "sownvil" this time, and I like to play word verification balderdash...Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06734845463331170748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-60977460462512249722008-11-24T13:43:00.000-08:002008-11-24T13:43:00.000-08:00You, me, and the a few other similarly-obsessed we...You, me, and the a few other similarly-obsessed weirdos.Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51447360490469034502008-11-24T13:40:00.000-08:002008-11-24T13:40:00.000-08:00IOW, "Don't worry, nobody's looking, it's just you...IOW, "Don't worry, nobody's looking, it's just you and me"?DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-78175434536204181042008-11-24T13:39:00.000-08:002008-11-24T13:39:00.000-08:00I wouldn't worry too much - the post is from last ...I wouldn't worry too much - the post is from last week and this will be comment #73!Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-66917999806573478402008-11-24T13:31:00.000-08:002008-11-24T13:31:00.000-08:00:: Shh! Chantry! Nobody's noticed! :::: Shh! Chantry! Nobody's noticed! ::DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-49302347728566013172008-11-24T13:30:00.000-08:002008-11-24T13:30:00.000-08:00Dan,Mad curiosity here, and I realize I'm breaking...Dan,<BR/><BR/>Mad curiosity here, and I realize I'm breaking your just-repeated regulation of the thread, but then I already shared more of my thoughts than anyone could have wished to read:<BR/><BR/>Are you going to share your thoughts at some point? Or am I clicking back into this thread in a vain hope that it will come to some sort of conclusion?Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-30029629135214859262008-11-24T13:15:00.000-08:002008-11-24T13:15:00.000-08:00Dude, read your invitation again.It says, "Some re...Dude, read your invitation again.<BR/><BR/>It says, "Some really good folks are really loving this... I'm having a set of differing reactions. ...What's your response, and why?"<BR/><BR/>What did you think of the <I>video</I>?<BR/><BR/>Not "What do you think about other people's responses to the video?"DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-83626143080519194612008-11-24T13:12:00.000-08:002008-11-24T13:12:00.000-08:00Well interesting. The medium is called "sarcasm." ...Well interesting. The medium is called "sarcasm." I can't see anything wrong with it, because generally speaking there are grains of truth to the thing, and the writers and performers were good-natured in their chiding.<BR/>Or, would you have wanted the next video to end with "and besides, they take themselves so seriously that they have no sense of humor"? And I know that's not true of pastors, in general. So lighten up.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-67068581465044413642008-11-24T11:41:00.000-08:002008-11-24T11:41:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Barbarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604068110452745043noreply@blogger.com