tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post535704229414376346..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Some More Thoughts on Effeminate EvangelicalismPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-24584739244491442442009-04-30T20:10:00.000-07:002009-04-30T20:10:00.000-07:00When men act like what you have described, it make...When men act like what you have described, it makes it so much harder to be Biblical women... especially in the church. <br /><br />A woman fairly new to our church said "One of the things that really stands out to me about this church is that the women are intelligent and willingly submissive AND the men LEAD. It is so refreshing... and sadly unusual."<br /><br />My response: "It makes it easier on us women to fulfill our God designed roles when we consistently have Biblical teaching and Biblical leadership."<br /><br />I am so genuinely thankful that you will never hear the following questions asked at my church:<br /><br /><I>"How does this Bible verse make you feel?"<br /><br />"What do you think this verse means to you?"<br /><br />or "What is your opinion of this Bible verse?"</I>And we women pray constantly for the men of our church. Especially that they would continue to be steadfast, bold and uncompromising in the proclamation of God's Holy Word and the pursuit of holy living for His glory.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14009121709733650503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-25314188588194504122009-04-30T13:39:00.000-07:002009-04-30T13:39:00.000-07:00What would be really masculine would be a return t...What would be really masculine would be a return to the days of the Crusades!<br />Now that is manly! Not a woman in sight on those escapades...<br /><br />I think this is a bit of a distraction really. It is meant to provoke thought but too many people believe it wholesale.<br /><br />We are meant to proclaim the truth unapologetically. What that implies is that we are to have a sense of the seriousness of sin and that we are to proclaim that freedom from sin is here.<br /><br />But such a message can only come from people who understand what it is to live deep in sin and appreciate the sacrifice that God made for them.<br /><br />The problem is not the "seeker-sensitive" at all. The problem is that the people who can spread the gospel are busy talking about other people and less about Christ. Lift up Christ and He will draw all me unto Him. Forget about Saddleback. If it is not of God it will fall.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-73929924450874872342009-04-30T08:30:00.000-07:002009-04-30T08:30:00.000-07:00Stefan:
First I'm not referring to the occasional...Stefan:<br /><br />First I'm not referring to the occasional expletive that slips during times of stress or pain. I'm talking about those who cuss to describe everything. I think you'll find that my observation is more often the case than not. It isn't always the case, but its difficult to maintain a decent working vocabulary without actually using it. <br /><br />And again, it isn't a question of one over the other. I'm not even saying that lack of vocabulary is the reason. I think there is a link, however.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-6050922272730259892009-04-30T07:08:00.000-07:002009-04-30T07:08:00.000-07:00Sir Aaron:
I beg to differ. Certainly, in some c...Sir Aaron:<br /><br />I beg to differ. Certainly, in some cases, a heavy use of swear words bespeaks a limited vocabulary; but when I think of the people I've run across whose every second utterance is a four-letter word, there were other personality factors at play as well.<br /><br />As for myself, Before I was reborn in Christ, I used to swear quite freely (though not to the point that I couldn't express a thought without resorting to obscenities), and I would be lying if I said that I have <I>never</I> sworn since then. (Though I sometimes surprise myself now when during a moment of great stress or shock, I <I>don't</I> swear.)<br /><br />...And it has never been for want of vocabulary. At that point in my life, however, coarse vulgarities seemed to offer a visceral expressiveness that more restrained speech could not.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-8844187069943199762009-04-29T09:14:00.000-07:002009-04-29T09:14:00.000-07:00Gilbert,
The two are not mutually exclusive.
I ...Gilbert, <br /><br />The two are not mutually exclusive.<br /><br />I want you to imagine those people though that do use curse words heavily as part of their "everyday" language. Now I want you to imagine them having an expansive vocuabulary. It's very hard to picture isn't it? The reason for that is because they choose to express everything they know or feel through the use of a small set of curse words.<br /><br />Now that doesn't mean that isn't also a display of sin.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-82074695833830656282009-04-28T22:23:00.000-07:002009-04-28T22:23:00.000-07:00It seems part of this "conversational" approach to...It seems part of this "conversational" approach to Liberal Christianity is befriending homosexuals. Not only that, but claiming one can be an unrepentant gay Christian. I am wondering if Christians ought to befriend gays or focus on preaching the Gospel to them in a loving and truthful manner. It seems once Christians befriend gays, their view of homosexuality changes and their conviction of its sinfulness subsides.Blue Collar Toddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06405341351988210669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-31158483497079281852009-04-28T22:00:00.000-07:002009-04-28T22:00:00.000-07:00Sir Aaron,
You wrote:
"First, is that crude and ...Sir Aaron,<br /><br />You wrote:<br /><br />"First, is that crude and vulgar language is a part of being manly. Actually this just displays a lack of vocabulary skills."<br /><br />I disagree. This display a sinful attitude. Even when quoting someone else. The late comedian George Carlin could speak eloquently. But...Gilberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05267525662313103148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-31478200452444153282009-04-28T19:32:00.000-07:002009-04-28T19:32:00.000-07:00Aaron: Well, you don't have to bench a buick. We...Aaron: Well, you don't have to bench a buick. We'll settle for one of those small hybrids. And you can use both hands...Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-41489297351527169412009-04-28T19:03:00.000-07:002009-04-28T19:03:00.000-07:00Thomas Watson declared:
“I am tormented with the d...Thomas Watson declared:<br />“I am tormented with the desire of preaching better than I can. But I have no wish to make fine, pretty sermons. Prettiness is well enough when prettiness is in its place. I like to see a pretty child, a pretty flower- but in sermons prettiness is out of place.<br />To my ear, it should be anything but commendation (praise), should it be said to me, “You have given us a pretty sermon.” If I were put on trial for my life, and my lawyer should amuse the jury with jokes or bury his arguments beneath a profusion of flowery rhetoric (speech), I would say to him, “What are you doing? You care more for your vanity than for my hanging! Put yourself in my place-speak in view of the gallows (execution by hanging) - and you will plead my case plainly and earnestly instead.”Julius Mickelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02453209929174513662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-26803583700823381932009-04-28T18:03:00.000-07:002009-04-28T18:03:00.000-07:00The question I have then is what is true masculnit...The question I have then is what is true masculnity? There are many who try to make church more masculine and it either turns into something out of Iron John by Robert Bly or some sort of absurd Rambo kind of Idea where to be a "real" you need to bench press a buick with your pinky and kill a Grizzly with your bare hands.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16940942080262729410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-34327863451653229142009-04-28T13:51:00.000-07:002009-04-28T13:51:00.000-07:00"There a three sexes: male, female and clergy." - ..."There a three sexes: male, female and clergy." - George Bernard ShawTom Austinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01439152487935038636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-63710817263489077302009-04-28T10:12:00.000-07:002009-04-28T10:12:00.000-07:00Yes.
If small Bible study groups are under the ca...Yes.<br /><br /><I>If</I> small Bible study groups are under the careful, watchful leadership of elders; if the curriculum is carefully chosen and directed; and if their leaders are carefully chosen (in our church, meeting the qualifications for eldership, even if they are not themselves elders).<br /><br />On which points, we do all three, and by the sounds of it, so do Brad's and ~Mark's churches.<br /><br />And they go hand-in-glove with the preceding Sunday's sermon, involving extended Bible study around the preached text and related texts, and personal application. Each week's points are prepared by a pastor whose primary ministry is the small groups.<br /><br />They are also means of accountability, teaching, edification, prayer, support, and building each other up in the love of Christ: each small group leader is there to teach and shepherd the small group members, and has oversight over them (formal, if they are elders; or informal otherwise), and in turn (in their capacity as small group leaders) are under the oversight of the small group pastor, who reports back and is accountable to all the other elders.<br /><br />In a large church (in our case, not large by choice, but by providential circumstance), small groups are an integral part of shepherding the church well.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-68639828398275625532009-04-28T09:54:00.000-07:002009-04-28T09:54:00.000-07:00I love good small group studies. Cell groups have ...I love good small group studies. Cell groups have taken a beating in reputation but in my experience, when they are under the authority of a strong church and led by men who've earned the place of leadership, they provide a great maturing and learning environment. <br /><br />'specially since you can't do Q&A or be personally (specifically) challenged during the main sermon! :)~Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01819856178499938127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-11723432225909441712009-04-28T09:38:00.000-07:002009-04-28T09:38:00.000-07:00"Post-evangelicals don't want teachers who will de...<EM>"Post-evangelicals don't want teachers who will declare the difference between truth and error with manly conviction. They just want to have fun</EM>."<br /><br />There is perhaps more truth in this than you know. For fun, watch any given church objectively for a few sundays, then compare the format with popular television shows. I have found that resemblance disturbing - the temporal distribution of liturgy typically mimics prime-time TV <I>exactly</I>. And to top it off, many of the "discussions" in the PoMo world can be found on the NPR website...Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15147021671506048314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-58428709539910487102009-04-28T09:12:00.000-07:002009-04-28T09:12:00.000-07:00Small Bible Studies have their place - especially ...Small Bible Studies have their place - especially in small works. I don't think that I would go along if I intended to denigrate them any. Sometimes, we've got to make the most of what we have.<br /><br />Perhaps they tend to bring out of the woodwork thoughts that are in people's minds but cannot be expressed because normally the preacher preaches and doesn't ask for opinions. At least, we can indentify and deal with potential problems that are lurking there.<br /><br />They <I>do</I> have the advantage of having the student discover something for himself.<br /><br />Overall, I am a pulpit person - and the people cried <I>"God save the pulpit!"</I> - but there are advantages in both, if done properly. There is just a bit more risk with the open Bible study end of things. <br /><br /><I>Handle with care</I>Regards,Colin Maxwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02632698769785766168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-71429899209032769302009-04-28T08:33:00.000-07:002009-04-28T08:33:00.000-07:00"...hosting a perpetual, aimless dialogue about ev..."...hosting a perpetual, aimless dialogue about everyone's personal opinion."<br /><br />Here's how I like to deal with small group Bible studies, if they start the whole "what does this passage mean to you?" business:<br /><br />Me (hypothetical response said in sarcastic tone): <I>"well, this passage meant x to me a few minutes ago. But now that I've taken a toke on this weed, it means y to me." </I> (Or something like that. Everyone can see that I'm not really smoking anything).<br /><br />Maybe someone else can use this tongue-in-cheek technique to illustrate how ridiculous the whole "what does it mean to you" thing is. Usually people get the point right away.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-13377731833440081752009-04-28T05:06:00.000-07:002009-04-28T05:06:00.000-07:00Kevin:
they already use mints...I mean TRUE men r...Kevin:<br /><br />they already use mints...I mean TRUE men relish bad breath...Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-62032515203740691942009-04-27T19:23:00.000-07:002009-04-27T19:23:00.000-07:00I guess this bodes ill for my hopes that the Pyrom...I guess this bodes ill for my hopes that the Pyromaniacs blog would be redone in pastels.Kevin Stilleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16613332673067693686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-706395230479059842009-04-27T18:51:00.000-07:002009-04-27T18:51:00.000-07:00Amen and Amen, there is a way to wield the sword a...Amen and Amen, there is a way to wield the sword and yet be a gentleman!<br />I can recall some men taking the punch out of the sermons with unnecessary apologies and constantly saying 'I believe'. I like how Lloyd-Jones pointing out in preaching and preachers that you don't let the pew control the pulpit. <br />It was Albert Martin who has warned preachers that congregations quickly learn if they can control you with their frowns or smiles.<br />We should love the truth and love people so much that we preach truth not because we idolize Luther or Knox but because it's their only need and it's how we glorify God! MacArthur is a good example of this!Julius Mickelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02453209929174513662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-20309107231249746092009-04-27T16:17:00.000-07:002009-04-27T16:17:00.000-07:00I listen to Chuck Swindoll every now and then, and...<I>I listen to Chuck Swindoll every now and then, and have never heard any crudeness.</I>We air Insight every morning and I rarely missed a show. Then after hearing enough crudeness I quit listening. I'm not saying he's teaching anything false, just that I won't be around to hear it. <br /><br />Sir Aaron,<br /><br />I agree. The media representation of manliness that has convinced so many people of what a "man" should be has perverted the right view of manliness even into many churches. <br /><br />That's why I appreciate this post. :) <br /><br />Oh, and I don't agree word for word with that article, they just recounted the facts well.~Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01819856178499938127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-42815947782362022592009-04-27T15:41:00.000-07:002009-04-27T15:41:00.000-07:00Mark:
There seems to be a couple beliefs floating...Mark:<br /><br />There seems to be a couple beliefs floating around. First, is that crude and vulgar language is a part of being manly. Actually this just displays a lack of vocabulary skills. Some language should never be used and most of us don't want our kids speaking like that.<br /><br />The second belief is that you have to exhibit all charachteristics of manliness from the pulpit. When I'm working in the garage or the yard and my wife brings me lunch, I think it is manly to be outside, kinda dirty and stinky eating my sandwich. But I would never think it appropriate to be that way when taking my family out to eat. Likewise, I expect a certain demeanor from the pulpit. I don't expect the Pastor to speak to me in the same manner as he would when we are watching the playoffs and having a hamburger.<br /><br />BTW, that article you linked I think goes over the top. The Lion King? They certainly read a lot into a movie about talking animals.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-65417109920752914952009-04-27T15:40:00.000-07:002009-04-27T15:40:00.000-07:00I listen to Chuck Swindoll every now and then, and...I listen to Chuck Swindoll every now and then, and have never heard any crudeness. I hear exhortations mostly; nothing too deep, yet biblical, in an Arminian sort of way. He comes on the radio right after John MacArthur, who is right after Alistair Begg.<br /><br />Chuck is a solid preacher. Definitely not a girlie-man preacher.donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-44458779160479559222009-04-27T15:31:00.000-07:002009-04-27T15:31:00.000-07:00There are churches with couches instead of pews? ...There are churches with couches instead of pews? Maybe I can convince my church to get some laz-y-boys with cup holders!Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-45039767880500606372009-04-27T13:44:00.000-07:002009-04-27T13:44:00.000-07:00DJP,
over the last couple of years Mr Swindoll ha...DJP,<br /><br />over the last couple of years Mr Swindoll has gotten pretty free with the crude language in preaching. Not as far as the "cursing pastor", but enough that we got frequent calls of complaint at the radio station. <br /><br />Another broadcaster actually pulled Insight for Living off the air due to repeated instances. <br /><br />He did it most flagrantly in talking with groups of men and I thought this post could provide a nice antidote! :) <br /><br /><A HREF="http://mondaymorninginsight.com/index.php/site/comments/chuck_swindoll_dropped_from_radio_network_for_crude_vulgar_from_the_gutter/P25/" REL="nofollow">Here's a recap</A>: some of the language IS included.~Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01819856178499938127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-76932062164470549862009-04-27T13:30:00.000-07:002009-04-27T13:30:00.000-07:00~Mark, not sure how to read that.
Are you suggest...<B>~Mark</B>, not sure how to read that.<br /><br />Are you suggesting that Swindoll is, or is not, a good model for manly preaching?DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.com