tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post5674467666739740257..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Spurgeon searching for stripes — apocryphal? Sourcable?Phil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-7920374383135997152008-12-05T14:42:00.000-08:002008-12-05T14:42:00.000-08:00I, too thought "Too Little For The Lamb" Sermon #2...I, too thought "Too Little For The Lamb" Sermon #2937. Looks like someone posted it before me.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01661576168914286209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-52992392680734526462008-12-04T10:21:00.000-08:002008-12-04T10:21:00.000-08:00I think Nate nailed it as close as its going to ge...I think Nate nailed it as close as its going to get. Great job Nate.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06734845463331170748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-10595783304160193422008-12-04T06:23:00.000-08:002008-12-04T06:23:00.000-08:00"Quotations" works better than "citations."Johnson..."Quotations" works better than "citations."<BR/><BR/>Johnson and McGee<BR/>Preached that Christ died for thee.<BR/>For this we give praise<BR/>For preaching what God says;<BR/>But they should have curtailed<BR/>The myth about shirt tails.<BR/><BR/>(Okay, it's not John Donne, that's for sure, or even Ogden Nash.)Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-14113306150387956822008-12-04T06:15:00.000-08:002008-12-04T06:15:00.000-08:00To find the originationOf these colourful citation...To find the origination<BR/>Of these colourful citations,<BR/>I wish I could splurge on<BR/>The collected works of Spurgeon.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-49535759447542851372008-12-03T22:05:00.000-08:002008-12-03T22:05:00.000-08:00Okay, well, here's another source. It doesn't qua...Okay, well, here's another source. It doesn't qualify as "primary." But I think it's important to have the right quote and if you put in the exact quote in the google search, you'll get a few links and this is one them.<BR/><BR/>Carlo<BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0tAfrPlNq8CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-34045524920850035392008-12-03T21:47:00.000-08:002008-12-03T21:47:00.000-08:00Oh, and by the way, Spurgeon's "quote" is a respon...Oh, and by the way, Spurgeon's "quote" is a response to someone who said that if he believed like Spurgeon did and God saved some and passed by others, that he would give up preaching.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-32210254094322601252008-12-03T21:41:00.000-08:002008-12-03T21:41:00.000-08:00Okay, this assignment is really fun. I believe th...Okay, this assignment is really fun. I believe the correct quote is: <B><I>God has called me to preach His word and if I knew that all the elect had a yellow stripe painted down their backs, then I would GIVE UP preaching the gospel and go lift up shirt tails.</I></B> Working on giving you a primary source, but may send a secondary source, very soon.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-61960366855337556972008-12-03T21:23:00.000-08:002008-12-03T21:23:00.000-08:00Spurgeon referenced Rowland Hill's comment in seve...Spurgeon referenced Rowland Hill's comment in several sermons--a number of which can be found with a quick Google search. Here is another one (from <A HREF="http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:RagRUjZghNoJ:www.spurgeongems.org/vols49-51/chs2843.pdf+Spurgeon,+%22the+elect%22+chalk+%22on+the+back%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us" REL="nofollow"><B>SpurgeonGems</B></A>):<BR/><BR/>"I remember Rowland Hill’s reply, when somebody said that he ought to preach only to the elect. “Very well,” he said, “next Sunday morning, chalk them all on the back and when you have done that, I will preach to them.” But the chalking of them on the back is the difficulty—we cannot do that and, as we cannot do that, the best way is for us to leave our God to carry out the purposes of His distinguishing Grace in His own effectual way and not attempt to do what we certainly can never accomplish!"Nate B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11103224451133126715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-4358545088101567852008-12-03T21:15:00.000-08:002008-12-03T21:15:00.000-08:00Okay ... did a bit more research.Spurgeon openly s...Okay ... did a bit more research.<BR/><BR/>Spurgeon openly says that he was influenced by Rowland Hill on this topic. In <A HREF="http://books.google.com/books?id=mIxpuvcDJa0C&pg=RA1-PA42&lpg=RA1-PA42&dq=Spurgeon,+%22the+elect%22+chalk&source=bl&ots=uBYEQpkd4X&sig=WDki0wlR4sQ0fONaASjx_453cyc&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result" REL="nofollow"><B>his sermons</B></A>, he says:<BR/><BR/>"He [a certain hyper-calvinist] was not half so discreet as Rowland Hill, who, when he was advised to preach to none but the elect, said, 'He would certainly do so if some one would chalk them all on the back first.' That was never attempted by anybody ; so Rowland Hill went on preaching the gospel to every creature, as I desire to do."Nate B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11103224451133126715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-58980083494371572802008-12-03T21:09:00.000-08:002008-12-03T21:09:00.000-08:00This is slightly off topic, but I just found an in...This is slightly off topic, but I just found an interesting quote from Rowland Hill, an English preacher who lived from 1744-1833. <BR/><BR/>On page 34 of his <A HREF="http://books.google.com/books?id=MW0BAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA34&dq=Spurgeon,+marked,+%22the+elect%22&lr=#PPA34,M1" REL="nofollow"><B>biography</B></A>, we read this:<BR/><BR/>"Rowland Hill was as severely blamed by the high doctrinalists for not preaching to the elect only, as he was by the Armimans for preaching too much Calvinism. When someone complained that he did not preach to the elect only, he said, 'I don't know them, or I would preach to them. Have the goodness to mark them with a bit of chalk, and then I'll talk to them!'"<BR/><BR/>Though Hill died the year before Spurgeon was born, it's likely his comments influenced Spurgeon's later thinking on the subject.<BR/><BR/>In fact, Spurgeon wrote the introduction to his biography.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, FWIW.Nate B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11103224451133126715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-69617751775025334862008-12-03T20:48:00.000-08:002008-12-03T20:48:00.000-08:00Thanks Nate B.Thanks Nate B.Pedro Jiménezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01664746303978856754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-35357880532429131572008-12-03T20:43:00.000-08:002008-12-03T20:43:00.000-08:00Volume 51, page 262 of Spurgeon's original sermon ...Volume 51, page 262 of Spurgeon's original sermon series.<BR/><BR/>From the sixty-three volumes of sermons corresponding to the years 1855 trough 1917. <BR/><BR/>Volume 51 was published as the Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit in 1905.Pedro Jiménezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01664746303978856754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-19741015439729367692008-12-03T20:38:00.000-08:002008-12-03T20:38:00.000-08:00That's correct. "Too Little for the Lamb" (Sermon ...That's correct. <A HREF="http://www.spurgeongems.org/vols49-51/chs2937.pdf" REL="nofollow">"Too Little for the Lamb" (Sermon 2937)</A> is online at Spurgeon Gems.Phil Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-68626745777789082862008-12-03T20:35:00.000-08:002008-12-03T20:35:00.000-08:00Pedro,That quote reportedly comes from Spurgeon's ...Pedro,<BR/><BR/>That quote reportedly comes from Spurgeon's sermon #2937 ("Too Little for the Lamb") on page 262 of the 1905 Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit. I'll try to verify this tomorrow when I have access to that volume. <BR/><BR/>- NBNate B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11103224451133126715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-55736026284701818982008-12-03T19:54:00.000-08:002008-12-03T19:54:00.000-08:00Aigh! Still no source!Aigh! Still no source!DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-89465807511742163442008-12-03T19:47:00.000-08:002008-12-03T19:47:00.000-08:00"Our Savior has bidden us to preach the gospel to ..."Our Savior has bidden us to preach the gospel to every creature (Mark 16:15). He has not said, "Preach it only to the elect," and though that might seem to be the most logical thing for us to do, yet since he has not been pleased to stamp the elect in their foreheads or put any distinctive mark upon them, it would be an impossible task to us to perform. When we preach the gospel to every creature, the gospel makes its own division, and Christ's sheep hear his voice, and follow him."<BR/><BR/>Charles H. Spurgeon<BR/><BR/>From the book "2,200 Quotations from the writings of Charles H. Spurgeon", compiled by Tom CarterPedro Jiménezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01664746303978856754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-27903778978909142812008-12-03T19:31:00.000-08:002008-12-03T19:31:00.000-08:00I'll weigh in.Personally, I don't think the yellow...I'll weigh in.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I don't think the yellow-stripe version sounds authentically Spurgeonic at all. No proper Victorian would (in mixed company) invoke the imagery of lifting up someone's shirt to examine his bare-skinned back.<BR/><BR/>I think the yellow-stripe illustration is like the famous <A HREF="http://bbcprayer.wordpress.com/2007/10/01/boiler-room-prayer-begins-october-7/" REL="nofollow">boiler-room-in-the-basement tale</A> that is also frequently ascribed to Spurgeon: You'll discover that it is missing from every obvious source that was actually contemporary with Spurgeon, but almost ubiquitous after 1940 or so. So I would not be surprised to learn that the yellow-stripe story originated in the early 20th century.<BR/><BR/>It has every appearance of being an embellishment of the line Brian quoted in the first comment. Notice in the documentable version, Spurgeon isn't talking about an identifying tattoo or stripe on the skin of the back; he is challenging his imaginary hyper-Calvinist interlocutor: "Have YOU marked them all on the back?"--i.e., with a chalk mark or scarlet letter or bumper sticker. No proper Victorian would be expected to imagine Spurgeon was talking about a bare-skinned back. That has to be a twentieth-century gloss.<BR/><BR/>Incidentally, while we are debunking some of the most popular bromides of evangelical mythology, <A HREF="http://www.asa3.org/aSA/PSCF/1991/PSCF12-91Davis.html" REL="nofollow">the famous tale about James Bartley, who supposedly survived a swallowing by a whale, seems to be false, too.</A>Phil Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-83242951839689756152008-12-03T19:22:00.000-08:002008-12-03T19:22:00.000-08:00(Aside: I can TOTALLY hear Dr. J. Vernon McGee's ...(Aside: I can TOTALLY hear Dr. J. Vernon McGee's twang in that Spurgeon [or not-quite-Spurgeon] quote....)Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08289347868497438542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-7179158350319843202008-12-03T16:21:00.000-08:002008-12-03T16:21:00.000-08:00The quote I heard was that since he could *not* fi...The quote I heard was that since he could *not* find the magic "E" for elect, he would preach to *everybody*. Kinda from the other angle. I thought I read it in his "Lectures to My Students," but I can't find it...Shaun Marksburyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10181166499490318238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-49627589963521251812008-12-03T14:18:00.000-08:002008-12-03T14:18:00.000-08:00Actually, Dan, now that I think of it, you will no...Actually, Dan, now that I think of it, you will not find a "primary source", since it is not something that Spurgeon preached, but something that someone asked. By primary source - i.e. cite this source "in Spurgeon." Someone asked him so, I don't think it's something he penned down.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-4241415536653130682008-12-03T14:13:00.000-08:002008-12-03T14:13:00.000-08:00Sorry, this was put on my backburner. I believe t...Sorry, this was put on my backburner. I believe this is a quote from CHS because he was so passionate on evangelism. I'll try to find a primary source. Here's another secondary source to add to your list.<BR/><BR/>http://reformationinprogress.blogspot.com/2007/09/christian-yoga-john-macarthur-says-noi.htmlCRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-16015395061969969852008-12-03T13:47:00.000-08:002008-12-03T13:47:00.000-08:00Dan:It's not Spurgeon. I seached 5 volumes of Spur...Dan:<BR/><BR/>It's not Spurgeon. I seached 5 volumes of Spurgeon in PDF format, and I got nothing which says that Spuregon would rather only preach to the elect -- let alone anything about a painted stripe of any color.<BR/><BR/>If someone has a primary source for the Spurgy quote, I'd love to see it. I think I can find 10 quotes, however, where he speaks of a God of mercy to the just and unjust who makes a good-faith offer of salvation for repentance to sinners.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-45031151757911416782008-12-03T12:29:00.000-08:002008-12-03T12:29:00.000-08:00You totally had me going on that, you rascal.You totally had me going on that, you rascal.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80759922883197860012008-12-03T12:27:00.000-08:002008-12-03T12:27:00.000-08:00McGeeitized-You had fun with that one. What's a so...McGeeitized-<BR/><BR/>You had fun with that one. What's a sour cable?Strong Towerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13834108238546908018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-85571562590075856522008-12-03T12:04:00.000-08:002008-12-03T12:04:00.000-08:00Yep, and once more the dreaded "something like thi...Yep, and once more the dreaded "something like this."<BR/><BR/>Think Spurgeon, McGee and Johnson are all cracking up and elbowing each other?<BR/><BR/>(That's a joke; I'm full aware they have literally <I>infinitely</I> better employment.)<BR/><BR/>But I like you better and better, kid; you're no stranger to getting a bug in your bonnet. I don't know how many times I went over my library yesterday, looking for Thielicke's book on Spurgeon.<BR/><BR/><I>sigh</I>DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.com