tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post5941686487241520663..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: What did Jesus (not) say about... how to understand the OTPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger70125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-931678923809177092011-02-12T02:27:03.643-08:002011-02-12T02:27:03.643-08:00The insult-or-not issue is behind us.
As to the i...The insult-or-not issue is behind us.<br /><br />As to the issue of the post, however, and now the most recent comment of CGrim, I feel compelled to add a few words since the thrust of my initial comment continues to be rejected - at least by those who've commented on it.<br /><br />I can see how my initial comment, in its limited context, could be misunderstood. However, my dissenters are very concerned about potential denigration of the NT but seem unconcerned about potential denigration of the OT which was the thrust of my comment - and of the original post.<br /><br />The two testaments are a wonder to behold in their unity and interdependency. To exalt one over the other is to miss this unity and interdependency. However, to insist that the apostles used a Bible that had each other's documents in it is to contradict the NT itself. Yes, we can see the clear signs that a NT canon would eventually form and take its rightful place alongside the OT. But that's different from saying that whenever an apostle rolled into town he told the folks at the synagogue to open their Tanakh scrolls to 2 Corinthians. Or that Jesus ever referred to ANY scriptures other than the OT. <br /><br />There are more nuances to this issue than can be covered here. I'll trust that you know what they are, just I hope you'll trust that I do. But I wanted to highlight what is a great concern: that many evangelical Christians today largely disregard the OT and, as a result, don't understand the NT as well as they should. I thought that was communicated in the original post and it's why I sought to punctuate it.<br /><br />I hereby rest my case on this post; so, naysayers, be advised that you have the floor without fear of further contention from me. I just wanted to make clear that, from my perspective, the dissent has been off the mark.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-53521507529924702302011-02-11T13:14:52.923-08:002011-02-11T13:14:52.923-08:00Indeed. Or the White-letter edition.
Or the Red...Indeed. Or the White-letter edition. <br /><br />Or the Red-White-and-Blue-letter edition. (The one that highlights all prophecies relating to the United States - I have no idea if such a Bible exists, but part of me suspects it probably does.)CGrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03257084521984285384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-64720176792406706482011-02-11T11:16:52.959-08:002011-02-11T11:16:52.959-08:00CG - Don't forget the green letter edition as ...CG - Don't forget the green letter edition as well.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07714162584787118419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-11509317822631953472011-02-11T07:27:30.892-08:002011-02-11T07:27:30.892-08:00fwiw, I didn't think Frank's comment was i...fwiw, I didn't think Frank's comment was insulting in the least. Maybe in other comments in the past (I've certainly been guilty of the same), but not here.<br /><br />I, too, genuinely worry (not snarkily worry, but genuinely) about people who say, "the Old Testament was all the Bible that Jesus and His apostles ever needed or used." I appreciate the sentiment, but it's simply not true, and can lead - as Frank pointed out - to the notion that the NT isn't as fundamental as the OT, or that it was inspired differently than the OT.<br /><br />I also take issue with red-letter Bibles that imply that some words in Scripture (the words of Jesus) are somehow more important than the rest of the Spirit-authored text.CGrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03257084521984285384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-66646314264678458522011-02-11T07:02:35.355-08:002011-02-11T07:02:35.355-08:00Thanks for your answer Pastor Chantry. It explain...Thanks for your answer Pastor Chantry. It explains what was initially puzzling much more clearly now.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-16507869698123376372011-02-11T06:55:40.967-08:002011-02-11T06:55:40.967-08:00TUAD,
Thanks for asking.
I assume that what yo...TUAD,<br /><br />Thanks for asking. <br /><br />I assume that what you find insulting was the first line of my message. I wrote it badly, as I realized later in the day. I meant to communicate something along the lines of, "If you found Frank's innocuous comment insulting, I imagine you'll find this so also..." My comments tend to be overly wordy, and my attempt to shorten that sentiment to a mere five words came across as though I were saying, "Listen up, because I want to insult you now." Poorly worded opening. As for the rest of what I said, I do not think it was insulting at all.<br /><br />Everyday Mommy may or may not have found it so; I don't know because she never said so and didn't want to discuss it further.Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-65953075876368492332011-02-11T06:49:51.224-08:002011-02-11T06:49:51.224-08:00Pastor Tom Chantry: "EM - here's an insu...<b>Pastor Tom Chantry</b>: <i>"EM - here's an insult for you: your schtick is getting old fast. Frank insulted no one. He said that a certain view of the New Testament is worrisome and that those who hold it are worth worrying over. I didn't see him say, "I worry about you." Rather he objected to a problematic formulation.<br /><br />You, on the other hand, show up on a daily basis for what appears to be to take issue with whatever Frank says. We all get it; you don't like Frank Turk. Take it somewhere else. (Maybe you could write an open letter to him on your own blog.)"</i><br /><br />Pastor Tom Chantry, I understand why you admonished Everyday Mommy for mistakenly thinking that Frank Turk was insulting someone.<br /><br />But I'm unclear as to the pastoral wisdom in you deciding to insult Everyday Mommy in return.<br /><br />Could you please explain?<br /><br />Thanks.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-75938066008114903422011-02-11T04:37:40.370-08:002011-02-11T04:37:40.370-08:00DJP--
I missed that one and its discussion. I cer...DJP--<br /><br />I missed that one and its discussion. I certainly agree with it and wish I could force-feed it (not Star Wars Force-feed, just force-feed) to my compatriots.<br /><br />Noodle-headed does not equal spiritual.<br /><br />DougDoug Hibbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01099486048716032843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-56512630861356182582011-02-10T21:49:02.309-08:002011-02-10T21:49:02.309-08:00Doug Hibbard said...
"We need to come to Was...Doug Hibbard said...<br /><br />"<i>We need to come to Washington and Montana to meet you and the Squirrel.</i>"<br /><br />Why, yes. That is an excellent idea. Might I suggest summer, though...<br /><br /><i>Squirrel</i>The Squirrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14082708506676251152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-24351197158500028562011-02-10T19:03:24.677-08:002011-02-10T19:03:24.677-08:00You saw this one, Doug?You saw <a href="http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2010/12/what-did-jesus-not-say-about-truth-and.html" rel="nofollow">this one</a>, Doug?DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-39894903467947327642011-02-10T18:55:01.330-08:002011-02-10T18:55:01.330-08:00Julie (Herding Grasshoppers)
If we ever come nort...Julie (Herding Grasshoppers)<br /><br />If we ever come northwest, we'll deliver. We need to come to Washington and Montana to meet you and the Squirrel.<br /><br />Towards the topic: "Jesus was all about love, not about law, man."<br /><br />If I had a nickel for every time I've heard that, especially from people I went to college with and studied Scripture with, my tithe would be a huge blessing.Doug Hibbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01099486048716032843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-26946509362983713182011-02-10T17:10:34.064-08:002011-02-10T17:10:34.064-08:00I've missed these Dan, thanks for another. :)...I've missed these Dan, thanks for another. :)<br /><br />The tags caught my attention and I want to again thank Team Pyro for showing me my error in not being at all settled on literal 6-days of creation. I truly didn't think it mattered one way or the other. I was not reading literally and if I did that beginning with Gen. 1, what ever will I do with the rest of God's revelation? The posts here were of immense help in many ways.Sonjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12400678595605810974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-53104565873531384152011-02-10T15:37:54.709-08:002011-02-10T15:37:54.709-08:00Oh, man. I'm having one of those moments. Th...Oh, man. I'm having one of those moments. The more I think about the very Scripture I just quoted...and the more I think about the words of Jesus that Dan linked to in his post...how do I go about day after day taking God's grace so blithely, living in my heart as if the New Covenant has no antecedent in the Old Covenant, even as I say with my tongue that it does?<br /><br />These words bring us face to face with the words of the Living God, and my eyes and ears are starting to burn. Somehow, Jesus Christ's words condemn <b><i>me</i></b> in a way I haven't felt before.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-19046215201465145862011-02-10T15:26:44.828-08:002011-02-10T15:26:44.828-08:00By the way, Matthew 5:17-20 leaves me completely u...By the way, Matthew 5:17-20 leaves me completely undone. I'm a condemned man, unless I repent and rest in the blood of Jesus Christ, paid for at the price of His suffering God's wrath for my sins!Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-9334397235717994942011-02-10T15:21:52.006-08:002011-02-10T15:21:52.006-08:00Jesus Christ and the Old Testament is totally my s...Jesus Christ and the Old Testament is totally my schtick. I want to say something deep and profound, but I'm coming up empty.<br /><br />There is Matthew 5:17-20, which lays the Law on quite heavily: "...Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven" (verse 19).<br /><br />And then there are His words to the disciples in the road to Emmaus: "...Everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled....that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name...." (Luke 24:44b, 46b-47a)<br /><br />***<br /><br />Regarding whether the Old Testament was the only Scripture the Apostles had, well, no, that is an overstatement...but the Hebrew Scriptures is the closest thing they had to what was for them at the time a complete canon—especially in the form of the Septuagint (although that encompasses more than what has come down to us as the 39 books of the English OT).<br /><br />Although Peter refers to Paul and Paul quotes Luke, it is the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings that Jesus refers to several times in His preaching. And I suspect (though I cannot know for sure) that when Paul writes that "from childhood [Timothy has] been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus," he was likely referring to the Old Testament.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-15351417160641860142011-02-10T14:35:38.838-08:002011-02-10T14:35:38.838-08:00Doug,
We're coming for lunch.
If we're e...Doug,<br /><br />We're coming for lunch.<br /><br />If we're ever in the south.Herding Grasshoppershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15668974245505544238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-18992664836945831962011-02-10T14:30:49.201-08:002011-02-10T14:30:49.201-08:00donsands,
That's one of the oft-misquoted ver...donsands,<br /><br />That's one of the oft-misquoted verses in my family....'Man shall not live by bread alone, but must add peanut butter.'<br /><br />Of course, that's just nonsense Scripturally, but still...Doug Hibbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01099486048716032843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-82057753611386457882011-02-10T13:09:30.332-08:002011-02-10T13:09:30.332-08:00"Jesus said, "I have come to do away wit..."Jesus said, "I have come to do away with the law, and fulfill it."<br /><br />"But he answered, “It is written,<br /><br />“‘Man shall not live by bread alone,<br />but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”<br /><br />I love this verse. It's one of my all time favorite saysing of our Lord. I don't know why totally, but it is.donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-49207482749480853062011-02-10T13:07:31.815-08:002011-02-10T13:07:31.815-08:00Lest anyone think I am Everday Mommy just posting ...Lest anyone think I am Everday Mommy just posting under another screen name I completely disagree that Frank was insulting.<br /><br />I can read a text. I note that Frank first asked permission to disagree. And I agree with another commenter who said that his disapprobation was not personal but only at the categories of persons who would not believe that the Apostle's writings weren't widely used in the first century.<br /><br />Mr. Turk's manners were faultless here. But I refuse to be the manners police here, that would be too exhausting--and I assume you have the Holy Spirit to guide you. <br /><br />I just wanted to clear up any misapprehensions.<br /><br />Karen ButlerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33124268521619859582011-02-10T12:14:34.943-08:002011-02-10T12:14:34.943-08:00I third the "Tom Chantry to join the Knights ...I third the "Tom Chantry to join the Knights of the IgNoble Order of Pyro" nomination.<br /><br />And don't read David Regier's last comment if you want to keep your laptop screen spit-free. :)<br /><br />Oh, and also, great thought Dan. I look forward to the full piece.Rachael Starkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10781158372237369417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33845137484394691852011-02-10T11:48:20.388-08:002011-02-10T11:48:20.388-08:00What?What?DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-91830738379738636302011-02-10T11:46:51.077-08:002011-02-10T11:46:51.077-08:00"What did Jesus not say about how to understa..."What did Jesus not say about how to understand the Old Testament?"<br /><br />"What did Jesus not say about how to understand the Torah?"<br /><br />Two different questions.<br /><br />He did not say, "That Elijah guy that Malachi warned you was coming. It ain't him until he comes with Elijah's face and name."<br /><br />He did not say, "Jots and tittles, they're so hard to keep track of. No biggie."lee n. fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01652025469454858807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-3774014440475692052011-02-10T10:40:35.876-08:002011-02-10T10:40:35.876-08:00Let's base our thinking upon "science&quo...Let's base our thinking upon "science", after all the bible was written by men - not divine fiat. God couldn't have created in 6 literal, 24-hour days and that story about Adam and Eve.... With this as a starting point can it get any better?Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07714162584787118419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-65931634586880835812011-02-10T10:27:25.965-08:002011-02-10T10:27:25.965-08:00DJP & Frank:
You're . . . you're . . ...DJP & Frank:<br /><br />You're . . . you're . . . you're . . . perspicuous!<br /><br />Said in a Daffy Duck voice as to Bugs Bunny.David Regierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09766862583586784668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-82245997008547356692011-02-10T10:20:50.100-08:002011-02-10T10:20:50.100-08:00Let's just leave "blogforthelord" al...Let's just leave "blogforthelord" alone, shall we? Maybe he overstated his case, and I just said what I said which came across as too much, and that's it. case closed.<br /><br />Next.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.com