tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post6704656836903809235..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Porn and paper pastorsPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger188125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-26099356683869343812009-04-27T19:03:00.000-07:002009-04-27T19:03:00.000-07:00God gave to us brothers and sisters in the Body of...God gave to us brothers and sisters in the Body of Christ not just in our local church, not just in the present but from the past. As Hebrews 11 and 12 directs us to look on that great cloud of witnesses, I think it is good to seek to know and learn from every great Shepherd and Bible teacher that God has gifted the church and whose sermons and meditations were written down.<br /><br />At the same time, these great witnesses are not those God has put in direct authority over us. They are not whom God has given to us to be built up by means of a personal relationship. There are some ways their writings can sharpen us, but many aspects of iron-sharpening-iron the give and take, that are only present with our immediate authority -- our local plurality of overseers/bishops = shepherds/pastors = elders. And these local church elders over us are also able to receive our ministry to them -- as we submit to, love, respond, ask questions, sometimes respectfully challenge, even call to account as a fellow Christian. They need the ministry of our spiritual gifts as much as we need the ministry of their spiritual gifts.taiwanchurchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03451051263794030353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-37383870033137568102009-04-27T11:16:00.000-07:002009-04-27T11:16:00.000-07:00still cant do without r c sproul - The Holiness o...still cant do without r c sproul - The Holiness of God. also pastors/ministers use these paper pastors/ministers for quoting in a sermon tho it would be more Matthew Henry, John Calvin & Robert Lewis Dabney. still thought provoking post, people should stop dating the church and have true Christ like fellowship.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-34218128770224246502009-04-26T17:34:00.000-07:002009-04-26T17:34:00.000-07:00Spot on!
Excellent post.Spot on!<br />Excellent post.Dan Odomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04487886439322903720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51154143059466509712009-04-26T14:09:00.000-07:002009-04-26T14:09:00.000-07:00Ah, yes, finally a kindred spirit on this matter. ...Ah, yes, finally a kindred spirit on this matter. How refreshing indeed! My dear like-minded friends, I have been taking notes on this phenomenon for a long time, testing it, proving it and, unfortunately experiencing its reality in very powerful, I would even say, exemplary ways. Yes, I have a testimony of what I believe I have personally traced to potentially be part of the actual origins of this “mood” (or call it what you will) and of insights into the actual, not always apparent, methods in which it is supported, fanned, and explosively catches fire in the unsuspecting, and otherwise, (we hope), well acting (or at least) meaning, Christians. Through prayer and perseverance, I think I have diagnosed the antidotes as well. How I wish I could share all of it but this would probably not be the appropriate format. Having said that, I long , in a pastoral way, to share it with anyone I can. And I do do this as much as I can and am thankful for another opportunity to possibly do that here as well. <br /><br />I have studied theology at 4 different institutions, 3 of which were “Evangelical” (not pretending to have used an intelligible term to the reader here) as we often say. I have rubbed shoulders with at least a couple of the best “pastors” in this group (not at all to call into question them as men or ministers in terms of their skill, passion, intelligence, skill, education, etc. – they are men of some renown in many ways and are leaders and models in many ways too). <br /><br />But this is not about a man. It is about the shepherds and the sheep and the approach used to shepherd the sheep who can be anyone at anytime and place in a case by case basis as life’s twists and turns end-up (like Peter who got it right, then wrong, then right, so many times). It’s about being ready to be on either side as the unpredictable patterns of life continue and being ready in season and out. It is about the one who could be reasonably expected to shepherd the sheep (or “a sheep) because they have the very food that can feed the sheep (or “a sheep), or they have the very oil that can ease the wounds of the sheep (or “a sheep), but, because they don’t deem it a highly profitable, or rewarding affair, or because their doing so at that moment doesn’t maximize their future opportunity (as if such opportunity were able to be manufactured whatsoever by anything man does), to be better positioned for other gains, they forsake the caring of the sheep. Instead it is replaced for a method that can be considered more in keeping with business models than of the highest calling a jar of clay can possibly achieve – a conduit of grace which always has both root (Christ) and fruit (kingdom power). <br /><br />Few if any texts are more powerful in themselves and more powerfully tied into the thread of the gospel, than the Lord’s words (OT & New) regarding this whole affair of sheep and shepherd care. And the spirit of our age, I am afraid, has led to a miserable nullifying of the powerful life changing, effective Word of God. <br /><br />I sense I am in one spirit right now with all those who share in this understanding as God so moves, not because it’s an idea but because I believe us to be discussing the way God really works in his people who are willing to stop and engage in a brother for the sake of the gospel. How I wish we were all really together, physically, right now to do this even better, then would could even more really ask those probing shepherd like questions, eye-to eye, really follow-up, & really offer ourselves as servants for each other’s sake, and maybe even, really, share each others burdens, and so, really, fulfill the law of righteousness. Not pie in the sky stuff, or fantasy, no, but really and truly.<br /><br />How really hard can it be after all, to realize that we are not called to get others to see the truth we have acknowledged so they can be in the right camp, with us “right-guys” but to be following Christ in discipleship (Matthew’s single command is not “go” (ptc.) but “make disciples” (lit. “as you are going [ptc.], make disciples [impv.])? <br /><br />This site suggests to me suspect afresh, the Lord may be getting ready to move powerfully among the “tent-makers” of our day who while in secular employment, sacrifice their own secular glory for the advancement of the kingdom to the extent He doesn’t use those who, while in spiritual employment, don’t sacrifice their own spiritual glory for the sake of the secular. Our calling is not described by “Jesus loves you and now you might be famously used to your own full self-actualizing potential. Or to your life’s greatest and widest influence yet. Or now others will be in high demand for your ability, insight, taste, synthesis, political views, meta-narrative descriptions or wisdom. Or to your usefulness in God’s hand as an obvious candidate to say better, clearer, with more focus, conciseness, or with more allure that the thousands of men before you (of whom you have not even read nor did it enter your mind to further their labor to communicate in their honor before you). But, rather, God honored Christ because he obeyed the Father to death sacrificially when it was tough, lonely, in misunderstandings, abandonment, with rushed confusion, ignorance, malice, resentment, accusation and the like. And, to the extent you follow this Christ, whom your whole life is now hidden in, and whom you are now identified now with completely in his death with Baptism and in power with His ascension, you consider, believe and act likewise. For the kingdom’s sake, that is, not your kingdom but His, you too must be willing to die by investing in your brother and in God’s plan to bring him into that kingdom. <br /><br />How refreshing to be able to share this with whoever you the reader is. … How grateful I am for the books I have read, and want to read, and the treasures of the faith over the centuries. But where would I be right now had it not been for the tangible love of my Father using tangible means to show me he loves me using real people, especially since I had no mother or father to do it. Ours is a faith not yet fully seen, true, but it is also a faith with a faithful witness none the less. And it can’t be faithful, if it isn’t effective, and it can’t be effective, if it does not bring the results in a spiritual way, yes, but also in a very real way, in the way it professes. Fruit tastes like fruit, not like non-fruit. And, joy! Kingdom fruit really exists. “This” fruit, can be produced with seed, water, and pruning. Selah and Amen.kgelibrizzihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11799619154139160293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-69160769194270411662009-04-25T15:31:00.000-07:002009-04-25T15:31:00.000-07:00This is my first time being on this blog, and this...This is my first time being on this blog, and this being the first post I've read. And I loved it. <br /><br />Granted, I AM A HUGE FAN of John Piper, I love listening to his sermons, and reading his books. <br /><br />I have caught myself thinking that John Piper /is/ my pastor. And this is just not the case. Thanks for the reminder. <br /><br />Granted, I have grown a lot by reading and listening to him. <br /><br />But he cannot and should not replace my flesh-and-blood pastor. <br /><br />great post! I look forward to reading more from this blog!Saccihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07427935551055216257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-81656561500182238902009-04-25T12:45:00.000-07:002009-04-25T12:45:00.000-07:00My pastor forwarded the link to us and I enjoyed r...My pastor forwarded the link to us and I enjoyed reading it. It is so true that people today have this unrealistic fantasy of what life should be. I'm guilty of that myself, a lot more when I was younger. We're sucked into this Disney fantasy, where the knight gallops in on his horse to save the princess and live happily ever after. No fussing, fighting, and definitely no hard work getting to know someone, especially our pastors. I have lived a lot of my life with unrealistic expectations of the people around me as well, and I believe a lot of Christians get sucked into thinking they need to be 'entertained' in church instead of really listening to what their pastor is saying, and being gracious when they seem uninspired, tired or just exhausted. I have a great admiration for pastors everywhere, how many men can live 20, 30, 40 years in a community and have the weight of the burden of all the congregation on their hearts? I can barely live with the burden of my own sins, much less knowing the details of everyone around me, friends, family etc. These 'paper pastors' are great men, all of them, of course when you have a book or TV show, it's been doctored and edited, just like those porn pictures, to make it good. Truth is we never see the real side of any of these pastors (unless of course they are your pastor) Thanks for posting that article, I'm going to save it and show it to some of my other church friends who may not have seen it.<br /><br />As a side note, reading the first 4 paragraphs about pornography and the pull it has to men especially, really set a new light on the subject. Yes it is disturbing, but my first marriage ended after 12 years, and he was addicted to pornography. It is hard being compared and trying to live up to a standard that you can never achieve-and also allows people to be lazy in their relationships. Escape the reality of working hard and getting messy with real live people with reading about something else. I thank you for writing that so I could be blessed to read it. It gives me a bit more insight into a painful situation.BBearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07099685051997206109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-57554032732091056412009-04-25T11:56:00.000-07:002009-04-25T11:56:00.000-07:00wow! that was fab...now i would like to confess t...wow! that was fab...now i would like to confess to my brothers/sisters-in-Christ, i am one of those that fabricates a paper pastor. please forgive me Lord.<br /><br />that being said, i still won't deny i have learned alot from some of the pastors mentioned but bottom line...your right, these cyber/paper pastors don't even know i exist. <br /><br />i'm realizing the same about facebook. Lord help me.<br /><br />100-fold blessings to u all,dedehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11963718272014059577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-72832242440770734962009-04-25T06:44:00.000-07:002009-04-25T06:44:00.000-07:00Dan,
Many comments, probably enough said.
Great ...Dan,<br /><br />Many comments, probably enough said.<br /><br />Great post!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80418681220320786122009-04-24T19:49:00.000-07:002009-04-24T19:49:00.000-07:00Thank you for this post. The main preaching elder...Thank you for this post. The main preaching elder of my current church may not be as "well known" as Piper, Keller, etc., but he preaches the Bible faithfully, and I am blessed to listen to, and be challenged by, his sermons (and those of the other elders). <br /><br />In addition, if I have a question or concern, he and the other leaders will take time to talk with me. That is a blessing of the local church which should never be under-valued. 9 Marks.org is a good site to find a church! :-)Christopher Lakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07327013707393086096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-7592738589718236192009-04-24T15:30:00.000-07:002009-04-24T15:30:00.000-07:00Ouch this also could have been named Porn and podc...Ouch this also could have been named Porn and podcast pastorsUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04242207339100847475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-48798658934992153602009-04-24T15:27:00.000-07:002009-04-24T15:27:00.000-07:00Ouch!
This could have also been called
Porn and...Ouch!<br /><br />This could have also been called <br /><br />Porn and podcast pastorsUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04242207339100847475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-31153913763950170492009-04-24T11:21:00.000-07:002009-04-24T11:21:00.000-07:00Thank you so much for this post. It is good to kee...Thank you so much for this post. It is good to keep our perspective clear and not put ourselves above Christ nor place our pastors, and other teachers/worship leaders/Church Fathers, above Christ.<br /><br />Thanks for taking the time to write this.Chad Markleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10036904547084502565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-13799148586172916082009-04-23T20:31:00.000-07:002009-04-23T20:31:00.000-07:00After sending this piece to my pastor he responded...After sending this piece to my pastor he responded by saying that it is sometimes a challenge for him not to want to be one of those paper pastors! I suppose I can understand that sentiment since paper pastors shepherd churches filled with paper people who never get divorces, never need counseling, church discipline, etc.... Yeah, right.Dawg Dochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04576049792024286630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-14805180295265936382009-04-23T18:12:00.000-07:002009-04-23T18:12:00.000-07:00Most Excellent perspective. I understand the spiri...Most Excellent perspective. I understand the spirit of the piece and greatly appreciate the subtle but clear call to be appreciative of those who labor among us. Thank you Dan!Jawn Limhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15514891591063182818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-39988521764965084392009-04-23T14:30:00.000-07:002009-04-23T14:30:00.000-07:00Mark Driscoll is my pastor :O
lol.
Its a blessin...Mark Driscoll is my pastor :O<br /><br />lol.<br /><br />Its a blessing to go to mars hillMatthew Robertsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17191642424309037456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-49653857774403164572009-04-23T13:03:00.000-07:002009-04-23T13:03:00.000-07:00Those who know me know that I don't golf and I don...Those who know me know that I don't golf and I don't do blogs. But you have taken the words right out of my mouth. I've long been concerned about the "celebrity status" that we place on our modern-day Christian heroes. In that regard, 1 Corinthians 1:12-13 is very much alive.<br /><br />Years ago, as a young man aspiring to the pulpit, I asked John MacArthur how he deals with the pressure "to be good." By that I inwardly meant, "to keep up with the preacher-celebrity-Joneses." His response has stuck with me: <I> "God does not call you to be good, He calls you to be accurate." </I> In that regard, how popular would the Apostle Paul himself be in our contemporary "did you hear that message by Paul Washer!" mentality?<br /><br />After hearing a friend bemoan that "there are no 'John Pipers' in our area," I posted a note on my Facebook page that said, <I> I'm Facebook friends with Al Mohler, Paul Washer signed my Bible, John MacArthur smiled at me and I had John Piper's likeness tattood on my right bicep. I'm as giddy as a 16 year old school-girl! If only I could listen to Piper every Sunday morning, I know that I'd be fully sanctified. We ought to close down these second-rate churches and just follow our favorite Christian heroes. </I>I thank God for how He sovereignly gifts and uses His chosen vessels. <I> But this is His doing, not man's. </I> Let's encourage those who labor over us, be they well-known or not, but let's be sure that the glory is directed heavenward.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-79930888536547313452009-04-23T13:02:00.000-07:002009-04-23T13:02:00.000-07:00Excellent article. Over the past 20 years I've be...Excellent article. Over the past 20 years I've been a member of 4 different churches - all with memberships beyond 4,000. Three of the four pastors of these churches met me on occasion at a church function yet never remembered my name let alone had a conversation of any depth or substance for more than 2 minutes. The remaining 4th pastor with a membership of 15,000+ was basically unapproachable since he didn't even bother to greet after the service. Then last year our family decided to help with a startup church that has about 15 families attending. I meet the pastor regularly for lunch. In short, it's fantastic.<br /><br />I recall Dr. Sinclair Ferguson recently saying that he believed the ideal church had about 150 members. After this experience I would agree.D. C. Markelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18128580822685864353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-8120446979019799482009-04-23T10:53:00.000-07:002009-04-23T10:53:00.000-07:00Dan,
This was the best post i have ever read of y...Dan,<br /><br />This was the best post i have ever read of yours. Thank you very much for these words of wisdom.Caleb Kolstadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16430229005942296570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33558920024567377362009-04-23T06:48:00.000-07:002009-04-23T06:48:00.000-07:00As one who had John MacArthur as pastor for severa...As one who had John MacArthur as pastor for several years and listens regularly to podcasts by Piper, Grant, and Duncan, I find myself now on my knees in repentance as I send this blog post to my current pastor.Dawg Dochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04576049792024286630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-30859868260247509742009-04-23T05:55:00.000-07:002009-04-23T05:55:00.000-07:00Phil is a terrific guy and a wonderful writer, no ...Phil is a terrific guy and a wonderful writer, no doubt about it.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-15163147359300524272009-04-23T05:28:00.000-07:002009-04-23T05:28:00.000-07:00Thanks Phil. Great reminder for those of us who lo...Thanks Phil. Great reminder for those of us who love to listen to Podcasts. God has blessed me with a great pastor/mentor who cares for me and meets with me and disciples me in the ministry. This is more than Piper can/will ever be for me, though his ministry at a certain time was integral to my faith.John T. Meche IIIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06519759200296267707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-89066875575355747072009-04-23T05:15:00.000-07:002009-04-23T05:15:00.000-07:00Comming late to this post. A great post with a cor...Comming late to this post. A great post with a core truth that has many implications for all of us in all walks of life. What a simply profound construction as well.<br /><br />I was edified and brought to thought.Rick Fruehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05879848568892457571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-73563527632764094092009-04-22T16:03:00.000-07:002009-04-22T16:03:00.000-07:00I am grateful to paper pastors like MacArthur, Beg...I am grateful to paper pastors like MacArthur, Begg, Piper, etc. who will never know me personally but I will meet in heaven. I am also grateful to paper pastors such as Paul, John, Peter, etc. who don't know me either but I hope to see in heaven as well. <br /><br />In the mean time, I appreciate my local pastors who look me in the eye and give me a hug a couple of times a week.<br /><br />Each of these "pastors" has helped in different ways making me a Christian better equiped to serve the LordBobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03301475284217434799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-26736717729834628552009-04-22T15:34:00.000-07:002009-04-22T15:34:00.000-07:00Wow, this is awesome and very thought provoking.
I...Wow, this is awesome and very thought provoking.<br />I do love John Piper's ministry, and consider him in many ways my Spiritual Father, since he introduced me to true faith. But I am SO grateful to have a flesh-and-blood pastor whom I respect, who IS there to counsel, who IS real, even with "warts," and who DOES deliver the Word of God faithfully. Sure, I disagree with him on a point or two of minor significance, but who cares? <br /><br />The sad fact is that, for many years of my life, in the course of living in several states, I have gone without such pastors. Not that I wasn't in church. I always was. But not all of the pastors I've had were "real" even though they were there in the flesh. What they presented was paper. They played a role. Not all of them, but enough of them to let me know that godly pastors should never be taken for granted.<br /><br />May your post encourage many people to greater appreciation for the godly pastors they have.Betsy Markmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13600148899348868100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-31550792025601497082009-04-22T13:02:00.000-07:002009-04-22T13:02:00.000-07:00Though, if your apology to your pastor starts off ...Though, if your apology to your pastor starts off with "I confess that I've been thinking of John Piper like a porn star," you might have more explaining to do.Tom Austinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01439152487935038636noreply@blogger.com