tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post7532410319282684922..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Bullwhip GuyPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger132125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-67798558105034893182007-12-10T09:54:00.000-08:002007-12-10T09:54:00.000-08:00Carol:Your comment misses the point. The compariso...<B>Carol:</B><BR/><BR/>Your comment misses the point. The comparison is between the park-bench dude's condescending contempt for Jesus' deliberate breach of Norman Vincent Pealeism and Rob Bell's simliar disdain for Bullhorn Guy's countercultural appearance, methodology, and message. If the Pyros were to see your comment, it would make them laugh. They might even deconstruct it in a follow-up post, because it proves the point they make all the time--that pomos and Emergents just don't get it. Unfortunately, there's not enough substance or clarity in Rob Bell's teaching to attract the attention of many truly "wise theologian[s]," but the problems really ought to be evident to anyone who ever spent a week in Vacation Bible Scool. So the Pyros easily win this round.Habitans in Siccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13666311435942322569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-50144062590329205432007-12-10T09:07:00.000-08:002007-12-10T09:07:00.000-08:00The Bullwhip Guy parody misses the point. There is...The Bullwhip Guy parody misses the point. There is no comparison between Jesus confronting the religious frauds in the temple and our proclamation of the gospel to the lost. If Rob Bell were to see this parody, it would make him laugh. He might even show it in his church because it proves the point he makes in the Bullhorn Guy--that fundamentalists don't get it. Rob Bell may espouse problematic theology--and these things demand a careful refutation from wise theologians. But Bell easily wins this round.Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05223444072061462019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80863357145556539622007-12-06T13:57:00.001-08:002007-12-06T13:57:00.001-08:00To all:Please learn to make links to outside artic...<B>To all:</B><BR/><BR/>Please learn to make links to outside articles <I>before</I> spamming our comments with multiple aborted attempts. Thank you.<BR/><BR/>Whoever was trying to post that URL never did actually succeed, so we deleted the remnants of the various attempts. It's OK, because the article being referred to is already linked at least three times in the "Links to this post" section below. So we didn't really need so many heads ups.<BR/><BR/>Thanks, nonetheless, to Steve and whoever else was so desperate to get that URL posted here.<BR/><BR/>Those not so easily put off by biting satire ought to read <A HREF="http://rongleason.blogspot.com/2007/12/mean-old-church.html" REL="nofollow">Dr. Geason's latest.</A> He had me laughing out loud.Phil Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-7120020160384549842007-12-05T22:21:00.000-08:002007-12-05T22:21:00.000-08:00here is the comment I left over on the COT blog......here is the comment I left over on the COT blog...<BR/><BR/>I agree that as Christians we are to love those we disagree with... and the more they stray from the truth the more we should love and engage them with the Gospel.<BR/><BR/>However, I believe satire and sarcasm can often communicate a truth more powerfully than simply stating it flatly. I think this is biblical and thought of these two examples off the top of my head...<BR/><BR/><I>1 Sam 2:1b "My mouth derides my enemies, because I rejoice in your salvation"<BR/><BR/>1 Kgs 18:27 "And at noon Elijah mocked them, saying, “Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.”</I><BR/><BR/>Telling Rob Bell that sometimes preaching biblical truth must be harsh, and that sometimes people will be offended is true... but to take his own words and apply them to the work of Jesus Himself makes more than a simple truth statement it EXPLODES his whole way of thinking in a way that, in my humble opinion, was much more effective.<BR/><BR/>In Christ,<BR/>EricEekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03019411142105765120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-6901370513485986522007-12-05T17:45:00.000-08:002007-12-05T17:45:00.000-08:00Phil,This guy is a friend of mine. I can put you i...Phil,<BR/>This guy is a friend of mine. I can put you in touch with him.Eddiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03527474797448558889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-34870389246047762962007-12-05T11:00:00.000-08:002007-12-05T11:00:00.000-08:00Campi is right. You guys need to repent. This is n...Campi is right. You guys need to repent. This is not funny at all. It may be an accurate portrayal but it is seriously dishonoring to our Lord Jesus Christ to refer to Him in this manner.<BR/><BR/>Psalm 89:7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, And to be held in reverence by all those around Him.Michael Nevarrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05239860391178943858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-65806608646639222362007-12-04T17:48:00.000-08:002007-12-04T17:48:00.000-08:00MR. JOHNSON, YOU ARE WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!Wrong, th...<B>MR. JOHNSON, YOU ARE WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!</B><BR/><BR/>Wrong, that is, to categorize ~18 minutes of solid-talk video as "50 words or less." But since the videos were so, as the kids say, <I>awesome</I>, I'll forgive you. ;-)Valerie (Kyriosity)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07389879363642577194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-43197694219015297982007-12-04T13:32:00.000-08:002007-12-04T13:32:00.000-08:00I was thinking actually doing that just - thanks p...I was thinking actually doing that just - thanks polycarp =DSam Garberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08225893494666180580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-55441377929997432972007-12-04T12:05:00.000-08:002007-12-04T12:05:00.000-08:00Sam,Please take no offense at my suggestion to enr...Sam,<BR/><BR/>Please take no offense at my suggestion to enroll in an English composition course.polycarphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02895290411377638462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-64993832578345416962007-12-04T09:13:00.000-08:002007-12-04T09:13:00.000-08:00"I grew up thinking that we've figured out the Bib..."I grew up thinking that we've figured out the Bible," Kristen says, "that we knew what it means. Now I have no idea what most of it means. And yet I feel like life is big again—like life used to be black and white, and now it's in color." Gasp…<BR/><BR/>“This is a faithful saying,” Paul says, “that Messiah Yeshua came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” Double Gasp…<BR/><BR/>Whoever corrects a scoffer gets himself abuse . . . do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you . . . So I’m not going to try to correct the Bullwhipped Guy’s Video…<BR/><BR/>Oops – every too often I check in to see what Fundamentiacs are ranting about – I know – I know – I’m an idiot - I have no idea what most of it [the Bible] means… so…Sam Garberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08225893494666180580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-59605681600815075612007-12-03T10:22:00.000-08:002007-12-03T10:22:00.000-08:00Well, if one already rejects the authority and ine...Well, if one already rejects the authority and inerrancy of Scripture—and yet still affirms what he or she claims to be faith in God—it doesn't really matter what one thinks of the Bible. To wit, there's a certain retired Episcopalian bishop who presumably considers himself a Christian, who's written reams of stuff discounting almost everything in God's Word we hold dear.<BR/><BR/>Based on an empirical sample of one (me), I'd say that the shame of that is, that it is much, much harder to come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ, Lord and Saviour, if one rejects the fundamental groundwork that the Holy Spirit has laid out for us in the texts of Scripture.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-48103372107173128842007-12-03T10:18:00.000-08:002007-12-03T10:18:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-52847427430257644552007-12-03T09:21:00.000-08:002007-12-03T09:21:00.000-08:00I once had a friend of mine (a liberal member of a...I once had a friend of mine (a liberal member of a Congregational church) tell me during an argument that if he were to find out that none of the Bible was true, it would not change him one iota in terms of belief and practice. <BR/><BR/>He actually said that with a straight face. Can you believe it?Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-79258164563446767552007-12-03T07:49:00.000-08:002007-12-03T07:49:00.000-08:001) Rob Bell's passage about the virgin birth is pr...1) Rob Bell's passage about the virgin birth is pretty silly. In it, he basically asks whether or not we should continue to follow Jesus, if we found out that he was a fraud. Of course, we shouldn't - who wants to follow a mere mortal who claimed to be God? Whether that means Bell is a heretic, or only a person who has an inability to reason, seems irrelevant, since either case would disqualify him as a teacher.<BR/><BR/>2) I've learned from experience that the most important thing to me in deciding if I should join or stay with a church, is: <I>Can I trust them?</I> Are they on the level, or playing church politics? Can I trust them to defend good doctrine, even if it's out of style?Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-38621744279499446962007-12-03T07:30:00.000-08:002007-12-03T07:30:00.000-08:00Jay: I think the most important thing is, as you s...<B>Jay:</B> I think the most important thing is, as you said, that the church is worshiping God in spirit and truth. While I'm certainly guilty of a degree of shopping mentality when looking for a church to attend, I think it's better to be in a church that is orthodox but austere than a church that is artistic but heretical.<BR/><BR/>I don't think feelings should be entirely discounted - they are a part of how God made us - but neither are they a reliable guide. My desire to be validated as an artist <I>was</I> met by Pagitt's church, but it was the heresy that drove me away.Devin Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00944849659698291143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-62121754847227844542007-12-02T20:45:00.000-08:002007-12-02T20:45:00.000-08:00Typo - I typed "to those who believe the virgin bi...Typo - I typed "to those who believe the virgin birth is questionable or valid" <BR/><BR/>I meant "to those who believe and teach that the virgin birth is questionable or should not considered valid"Papa Bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15057908390308553136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-91893297459046452592007-12-02T20:41:00.000-08:002007-12-02T20:41:00.000-08:00Will -How about turning over church to those who e...Will -<BR/><BR/>How about turning over church to those who espouse false teachings like Paggitt or Mclaren while he is travelling or away? When one considers what Rob Bell does when he not only entrusts his congregations pulpit and teaching to those who believe the virgin birth is questionable or valid, but who also believe that the church needs to its stance rethink sexuality(as in is homosexuality acceptable), should we consider him that great of an example or even discerning when it comes to the vigilence expected of someone who is entrusted to guard and guide sheep?<BR/><BR/>You would only need to go back the past few months in his sermons to see that these are some of the the men he has let fill his teaching platform(sermon/message).Papa Bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15057908390308553136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-59807511590924061622007-12-02T16:58:00.000-08:002007-12-02T16:58:00.000-08:00Yes, I read all of his posts. It certainly sounde...Yes, I read all of his posts. <BR/><BR/>It certainly sounded as if the most important part was how he felt and how his need to be validated as an artist were met by Pagitt's church.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00833725192258613330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-5118529505056204302007-12-02T16:42:00.000-08:002007-12-02T16:42:00.000-08:00Maybe the best part:"And Bullwhip Guy, God is not ...Maybe the best part:<BR/><BR/>"And Bullwhip Guy, God is not pleased with what you are doing. You just don't how to demonstrate God's love. You can't love people with an agenda. If I'm loving someone with an agenda, then it really isn't love... is it?<BR/><BR/>...<BR/><BR/>My agenda is to come to you in love and let you know that."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03233692229059442432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33093777057651123102007-12-02T06:30:00.000-08:002007-12-02T06:30:00.000-08:00A great example of artistic creativity used for Go...<I>A great example of artistic creativity used for God's glory is this very site and/or Phil's posters....</I><BR/><BR/>Hear that, Phil? You're an ar-TEEST!<BR/><BR/>(c;DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-55607785611543739582007-12-01T23:07:00.000-08:002007-12-01T23:07:00.000-08:00Devin,Great points. Please don't get me wrong--art...Devin,<BR/><BR/>Great points. Please don't get me wrong--art can absolutely be a way to glorify God! A great example of artistic creativity used for God's glory is this very site and/or Phil's posters (along with all the other team pyro bloggers, particularly Centurion). So, I don't at all believe Christians cannot, nor should not, use their artistic giftedness as the Lord would direct them. From your fine description of the way in which you use, or hope to use, your artistic talent, it is quite clear where you place your priorities as one who fears God...and He will honor this I'm certain. Either way, your concern is first to honor Him who reigns on the throne.<BR/><BR/>My focus on the EC use of (or obsession with) art is likewise upon the subject of priority and application. There is absolutely no place in my beliefs to criticize people (Christians) who are doing their best at something they enjoy in humility, have a gift for, and believe God is blessing their endeavors. In contrast to this are the image-obsessed whose priorities are on their sleeve: "I answer to culture; what does culture want me to be?; how can I make God conform to culture?, etc. Now, culture and/or image obsession is bad enough, but the point I was making in my last post is that it's so much more dreadful and pathetically worse when the very thing they have sold-out for is something in which they have mediocre talent at best! "Don't quit your day job" is what I wish I could say to so many of them ...and "certainly don't quit the only thing of any importance in this entire universe for 'it' either!"polycarphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02895290411377638462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80357746648950836342007-12-01T20:32:00.000-08:002007-12-01T20:32:00.000-08:00For the record, I totally agree with the critique ...For the record, I totally agree with the critique from Velvit Elvis. I thought it was a poorly written book and the bit about the virgin birth is stupid. I was mad when I read it (about a year ago) and it is one of my major heartburns with Bell.<BR/><BR/>With that being sad, we should be clear that he does 'not' actually deny the virgin birth. His point in that passage was that doctrines are not all tied together like a house of cards and that our faith is about God working throughout all history and that to distill it down to one doctrine and say "it all falls if this falls" is wrong and harmful. <BR/><BR/>I don't agree with Bell here. Namely I think that it is very important to the Christian faith that the virgin birth is historical for the following reasons:<BR/>1) it affirms the Divinity of Christ<BR/>2) Biblical infallibilty is very important and this would almost totally detroy any claim to the historical reliability and inerrancy of the Bible.<BR/><BR/>So, while Bell is wrong here ..... he is not a heretic. A heretic would argue that the virgin birth didn't happen. that is not what Bell argued (he actually affirmed that it did).CSBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14590529257898046077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-84441750658791096902007-12-01T18:53:00.000-08:002007-12-01T18:53:00.000-08:00Very good! http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/cate...Very good! <BR/><BR/>http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/category/rob-bell/Dave Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17872448688343944443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-81582863142854651312007-12-01T17:15:00.000-08:002007-12-01T17:15:00.000-08:00Like the saying goes, "If I didn't laugh about it,...Like the saying goes, "If I didn't laugh about it, I'd be crying." <BR/><BR/>Well said Devin, that's where I'm at w/ the EC.<BR/><BR/>Oh, regarding my earlier reference -'better Hit the Hookah' that was code for a kid ministry I was working on (helping my son build a fort).<BR/>:)<BR/>God is good!ALL FOR ONCE/ ONCE FOR ALLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04509322860189128685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51792746354832344102007-12-01T16:47:00.000-08:002007-12-01T16:47:00.000-08:00Jay: Did you read all of Devin's comment?Jay: Did you read all of Devin's comment?Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.com