tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post8831926886466096974..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Tersely put: omniscience and certaintyPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-48166600682624978612011-06-14T15:28:04.154-07:002011-06-14T15:28:04.154-07:00Amen. Looking forward to more of these.Amen. Looking forward to more of these.mikew116https://www.blogger.com/profile/15904946581928823933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-77223867270060103632011-06-11T07:42:32.512-07:002011-06-11T07:42:32.512-07:00Just a quick drive by from someone in the "ch...Just a quick drive by from someone in the "cheap seats": I wonder how the open theists would deal with your post?Burrito34https://www.blogger.com/profile/04326575419406343733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-49824192418047909452011-06-09T22:48:01.536-07:002011-06-09T22:48:01.536-07:00(Ephesians 2:8-10) May we never forget!!!(Ephesians 2:8-10) May we never forget!!!Tyronehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17970123049581654914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-14806423087357617302011-06-08T20:36:08.580-07:002011-06-08T20:36:08.580-07:00How about : "You can be sure, but only fools ...How about : "You can be sure, but only fools are positive?"<br /><br />paraphrased from the bat in 'Ferngully'Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09548217236377511321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-40596785118594692192011-06-08T13:32:26.136-07:002011-06-08T13:32:26.136-07:00Two cents from a twenty-something year-old:
A goo...Two cents from a twenty-something year-old:<br /><br />A good application we can give ourselves as believers is how we don't need proof. Being possessed for the search for that empirical data can lead down a dangerous path. Camping was so intrigued by "proof" that he has the whole layout of Earth's history and future on his desk. Why did he stray from the Word? It's because the Bible isn't a book on science. It's not a book on history either. It's a historically and scientifically accurate book, absolutely, but we have to remember that we are saved by faith. Not by proof, or empirical data, or objectivity.Tommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17533082006299313005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-28495825131819057802011-06-08T00:35:03.492-07:002011-06-08T00:35:03.492-07:00Our faith, our confidence, of necessity must be so...Our faith, our confidence, of necessity must be solely in the omniscience/Truth of God, not on our limited understanding of anything in this world. Something the atheistic or agnostic will all too readily label as "blind faith."<br /><br />My understanding of the Scriptures is much deeper, fuller, and in many radical ways DIFFERENT than it was when I was 20. Have the Scriptures changed in the last 20 years? No, my understanding of them has. Thus it was my understanding that was flawed, not the source material.<br /><br />That's what Paul calls "pressing on towards the goal," I think. Never taking for granted that we have all the answers, or even CAN have all the answers. Always searching to know more, to rely on the HOLY SPIRIT to provide illumination that our mind alone cannot. <br /><br />Our confidence is in the fact that the answers can be found, but only in God's perfect truth, and in his timing. Our confidence is in God's revelation, not on our deduction.<br /><br />That's the ridiculous humor of the atheist scientist who insists, with great fervor and froth, that THIS IS THE TRUTH! THIS IS FACT! Until, you know, some further research reveals it to be, you know, NOT.Steve Bervenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02137453259611119361noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-38006121034426791492011-06-07T16:50:44.068-07:002011-06-07T16:50:44.068-07:00But surely if you just add enough zeroes or even m...But surely if you just add enough zeroes or even multiple universes - then All things will be known!!!<br />I am giddy with anticipation!Bill Honsbergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04836300411894206079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-45559743576668980632011-06-07T16:36:27.706-07:002011-06-07T16:36:27.706-07:00Ah, yes, if he thinks the universe is finite, and ...Ah, yes, if he thinks the universe is finite, and he himself is finite, then how can he claim to 'know' anything with certainty? 'Science' doesn't help, does it?Steve Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17435371814330595643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-13692018588970236422011-06-07T16:06:28.667-07:002011-06-07T16:06:28.667-07:00See: he doesn't know.See: he doesn't know.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-66668081080684384212011-06-07T15:57:48.329-07:002011-06-07T15:57:48.329-07:00DJP:
". If not, then a fact on the other side...DJP:<br />". If not, then a fact on the other side of finitude might change everything."<br /><br />Assuming the skeptic answers this question, yes, the universe is finite, then isn't there 'nothing' on the other side of finitude?Steve Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17435371814330595643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80288448870060640142011-06-07T15:41:18.378-07:002011-06-07T15:41:18.378-07:00Child's play.
Is the universe infinite?
1. ...Child's play.<br /><br />Is the universe infinite?<br /><br />1. <b>If not</b>, then a fact on the <i>other side</i> of finitude might change everything.<br /><br />2. <b>If so</b>, then no matter how big you draw the circle of knowledge, the area outside that circle is always the same size: infinite.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-67558677402959358222011-06-07T15:35:02.937-07:002011-06-07T15:35:02.937-07:00Don, Steve, we can bring it back to the Gospel bec...Don, Steve, we can bring it back to the Gospel because in 500 years they're still going to be wrong and they'll know terrifyingly better way before then.Webster Hunt (Parts Man)https://www.blogger.com/profile/04631846083790242392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-44499805806354169462011-06-07T14:33:39.380-07:002011-06-07T14:33:39.380-07:00I like your question, Don. I hear it all the time ...I like your question, Don. I hear it all the time myself. It gets them off the hook (in their own minds), and pushes it out to the future. So how to bring it back around?Steve Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17435371814330595643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-37359652054553217612011-06-07T14:27:25.343-07:002011-06-07T14:27:25.343-07:00"They can say "No," or they can lie..."They can say "No," or they can lie. About anything. Those are the only two options."<br /><br />Or they can say "No", not yet, but one day we will, maybe another 500 years.<br />That's what I get from unbelievers at times.<br />Look how much more we know now then 1,000 years ago.<br /><br />Does that fit? Or am I off?donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-57624766079186130762011-06-07T13:42:18.438-07:002011-06-07T13:42:18.438-07:00In terms of human experience, how about human self...In terms of human experience, how about human self-awareness as a fundamental factor of life? How is it that man is self-aware? Might that not be another <i>one</i> of your unmined thoughts?Steve Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17435371814330595643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-52493901474960284062011-06-07T13:31:38.052-07:002011-06-07T13:31:38.052-07:00Yes, now that Pagey's unveiled it, that was on...Yes, now that Pagey's unveiled it, that was <i>one</i> of the unmined thoughts I had in mind.<br /><br />If someone is going to deny God, he has ceded his right to say anything literally anything with confidence. As a rule, they will deny this, because nobody can live that way. As all unbelievers do, they will rob the Kingdom currency while doing their damnedest to deny the King.<br /><br />So ask this: Can you say with absolute certainty that there is not a fact available only within a one foot square space ten miles under the surface of the far side of Pluto that would completely disprove your assertion?<br /><br />They can say "No," or they can lie. About anything. Those are the only two options.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-23446652163409848262011-06-07T13:24:22.208-07:002011-06-07T13:24:22.208-07:00@DJP (c:
It's an awesomely simple, wonderful,...@DJP (c:<br /><br />It's an awesomely simple, wonderful, obvious truth. (Once someone points it out to you!)<br /><br />Thanks for the reminder.Pageyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16617335308572844235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-158190855800193682011-06-07T13:22:26.898-07:002011-06-07T13:22:26.898-07:00Daryl, that was awesome.Daryl, that was awesome.Webster Hunt (Parts Man)https://www.blogger.com/profile/04631846083790242392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-45947418087739982632011-06-07T13:14:30.995-07:002011-06-07T13:14:30.995-07:00Pagey: ding! ding! ding! ding! ding! ding! ding! d...Pagey: ding! ding! ding! ding! ding! ding! ding! ding! ding! ding! ding!DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-86039861162871912792011-06-07T13:10:11.376-07:002011-06-07T13:10:11.376-07:00This post reminds me of something I heard or read ...This post reminds me of something I heard or read somewhere recently. Wish I could remember where. The general thought was something like this:<br /><br />If you don't know /everything/ you can't be certain of /anything/ because there's always the possibility that some fact that you've missed will turn up and blow all your "certainty" out of the water.<br /><br />So a finite being can't possibly be certain of anything unless an Utterly Trust-Worthy, Infinite, All-Knowing Being just happens to tell the finite being something true and then the finite being simply believes it.Pageyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16617335308572844235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-88760225398854107542011-06-07T12:54:59.338-07:002011-06-07T12:54:59.338-07:00Kind of like claiming I don't have a grandma.....<i>Kind of like claiming I don't have a grandma...you'd have to know every possible candidate in the world, and know them not to be my grandma.<br />But I'd only need to know Grandma, and I win.</i><br /><br />I just really like that.<br /><br />(c:DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-88365780214260597202011-06-07T12:49:29.984-07:002011-06-07T12:49:29.984-07:00Following the first sentence in the post, and Ricc...Following the first sentence in the post, and Riccardi's last reply...<br /><br />Trouble is, many non-believers claim that they "know" God is or isn't like 'x' or they know (for instance) that evolution is true. But for them to know that, they would have to be cognitively aware of every creature in the universe, and know each of them aren't God, or they must know every possible means of the world coming into being, and know that each of the options, save one, didn't happen.<br /><br />So they admit, when confronted, that they aren't omniscient, but they feign omniscience by claiming knowledge that only omniscience can provide.<br /><br />Kind of like claiming I don't have a grandma...you'd have to know every possible candidate in the world, and know them not to be my grandma.<br />But I'd only need to know Grandma, and I win.<br /><br />I don't know all the possible beings in the universe, and how they are or aren't God...I just need to know who my Father is, and the rest become irrelevant...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-24269478790014328812011-06-07T12:38:42.389-07:002011-06-07T12:38:42.389-07:00Mike Ricardi
But the only way they could be certai...<b>Mike Ricardi</b><br /><i>But the only way they could be certain of the validity of a naturalistic worldview is to know for certain that there can't be the supernatural. That requires omniscience.</i><br /><br />The dilemma of the self-sufficient knower, perhaps? The only person who could deny a self-sufficient knower would have to be a self-sufficient knower himself!Steve Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17435371814330595643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-24919817536009168332011-06-07T12:22:04.941-07:002011-06-07T12:22:04.941-07:00I like how all the scientific instruments let them...I like how all the scientific instruments let them to the conclusion that the universe was full of ether 150 years ago.<br />Or how about the joys of nebraska man or piltdown man! Science has spoken!<br />Or how about cold fusion in the eighties? Ain't science been helpful around here?<br />Or the stars that were dated older than the universe in past decade or so?<br />And now of course Hawkins declaration of forces like gravity creating the universe - which once included gravity I thought. I hope the divorce wasn't too messy.<br />The good news here is that our friends at the UN, especially at East Anglia, have our backsides covered and that nasty old CO2 won't be allowed to kill us all.<br />I stand relieved.Bill Honsbergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04836300411894206079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-9192711740283779582011-06-07T12:14:54.364-07:002011-06-07T12:14:54.364-07:00To profess certainty, non-Christians must feign om...<i>To profess certainty, non-Christians must feign omniscience</i>.<br /><br />Generally, the only context in which anyone in our gooey postmodern age is going to profess certainty is in the arena of science. But the certainty which they profess to have is based on <i>a priori</i> assumptions of naturalism, rationalism, uniformitarianism, etc.<br /><br />But those assumptions are just that: assumptions. They assume the non-existence of God because their naturalism demands it. But the only way they could be <i>certain</i> of the validity of a naturalistic worldview is to know for certain that there can't be the supernatural. That requires omniscience.<br /><br />Something like that?Mike Riccardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06748453197783538367noreply@blogger.com