tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post8861440611464138627..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Trusting: what it is and isn'tPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger106125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-30392972953287895122010-11-01T13:02:44.140-07:002010-11-01T13:02:44.140-07:00David asked if I'd coined "Biblely,"...<b>David</b> asked if I'd coined "Biblely," and I meant to answer earlier. Sorry, David; hope you're still reading.<br /><br /><a href="http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2007/10/while-youre-waiting-for-meat-child.html" rel="nofollow">Here is where it got started</a>.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-16778209311663311882010-10-31T18:35:55.069-07:002010-10-31T18:35:55.069-07:00Saw this as I was reviewing my sermon notes from a...Saw this as I was reviewing my sermon notes from a recent message on Exodus 5ff, on <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=exodus%205:22-23&version=ESV" rel="nofollow">5:22-23</a> where Moses is shocked that Pharaoh refused to let his entire slave labor force leave without a fight:<br /><br />"Disillusionment comes when we start attributing to God <i>what we want to be true</i> rather than what was actually promised."<br /><br />Seems to fit here. Not only can such presumption cause us unnecessary consternation, it can also cause others to doubt God because He doesn't do what He didn't promise to do. Great witness to the world, there.trogdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452996348717802065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-53004656110248646212010-10-30T23:15:22.884-07:002010-10-30T23:15:22.884-07:00D'oh, 1 Corinthians 7, not 2 Corinthians 7.D'oh, 1 Corinthians 7, not 2 Corinthians 7.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-17793061931081272342010-10-30T23:13:51.925-07:002010-10-30T23:13:51.925-07:00(Sorry for the deleted comments...Blogger acting u...(Sorry for the deleted comments...Blogger acting up.)<br /><br />And lest anyone still wants to write me off as some kind of "Christianoid" (as if my last three and a half years of interaction here count for nothing), I will reiterate that I believe very much in the ordinary means by which God has ordained for us to lead our lives.<br /><br />I have been working steadily at the same job for seven and a half years, commuting 2-4 hours per day every day, and plodding along, taking one Bible school course per term (because that's all I can handle), precisely because I believe in the ordinary means of God's providence.<br /><br />(And as I look back, I can see God's hand at work in every high AND every low I've had in my life and in my career, as much as I can discern my own responsibility or lack thereof.)<br /><br />By God's grace, I have remained committed to my wife through thick and thin, because I live by the Word, and have made 2 Corinthians 7 and Ephesians 5 my watchwords—and because of God's gracious work in our transforming our hearts and our marriage, through a series of difficult circumstances.<br /><br />God places us where He places us—no matter how ordinary, no matter how difficult—according to His sovereign purposes, far beyond anything we can comprehend. But He IS very much at work in our lives <i>every single day.</i> Not in a charismatic way, but through His sovereign grace and providence.<br /><br />Every day is a new challenge to us, and a new blessing, as we grow in discipleship and service to the Lord, build up the body of Christ, seek to obey the Great Commandment, and carry out the Great Commission.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-3040103701433886662010-10-30T22:51:37.676-07:002010-10-30T22:51:37.676-07:00Doug and Dan:
I can't speak for the anonymous...Doug and Dan:<br /><br />I can't speak for the anonymous Tom, but you'll get no disagreement from me.<br /><br />It is quite true that if we think the supernatural life is somewhere "out there," and our own circumstances are "unspiritual," then we haven't really learned anything at all.<br /><br />God ordains the circumstances in our lives...our ordinary, day-to-day lives are a gift from Him. Every meal we eat, and every item of clothing we own, every morning we wake up alive and healthy, every day we drive the car without an accident, every breath we take—everything is a gift of God's providence.<br /><br />Every encounter we have with a person, no matter how mundane, is a unique and potentially Christ-exalting event. Every mundane decision we make was foreknown by God, and He works everything according to His purposes.<br /><br />And in everything we do, it is quite true that we must consult the Scriptures, be diligent, obey God's explicit commandments and trust in His explicit promises, and leave the rest to providence and to our own reason and judgment.<br /><br />BUT my concern was only this: every time we have one of these posts and one of these comment threads, and the question of "but what about so-and-so" comes up, we are so quick to disabuse the interlocutor of his or her ideas, and there seems to be such a determination to squelch any tendency towards anything that seems even vaguely like charismaticism, that the opposite impression is sometimes made: as if some kind of hyper-cessationism is believed.<br /><br />One sometimes comes away from here with the erroneous impression that we are to expect <i>no</i> help or protection from God, <i>no</i> answer to prayers, <i>no</i> provision or guidance from Him for anything at all—as if God were <i>not</i> at work in the world today in any way whatsoever.<br /><br />I know—I trust—that's not what anyone hear thinks. And if even this comment marks me out as some kind of "closet charismatic" (to borrow Frank's term—presumably because I dared to use the term "Holy Spirit" in an earlier comment), then so be it.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-26709665810672841622010-10-30T22:42:32.791-07:002010-10-30T22:42:32.791-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-88288093583020972362010-10-30T22:42:14.063-07:002010-10-30T22:42:14.063-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-32724254205176033942010-10-30T22:27:19.707-07:002010-10-30T22:27:19.707-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-7760226104761754102010-10-30T15:09:42.621-07:002010-10-30T15:09:42.621-07:00Good illustration, Doug.
Sad, isn't it, to se...Good illustration, Doug.<br /><br />Sad, isn't it, to see so many locked into the notion that there's traditionalism or nothing? That if you can't "trust God" like (insert carefully-selected illustration here) did, then you just won't dare or risk anything?<br /><br />Where's the attitude of young Jonathan, who "said Jonathan said to the young man who carried his armor, 'Come, let us go over to the garrison of these uncircumcised. It may be that the LORD will work for us, for nothing can hinder the LORD from saving by many or by few'" (1 Samuel 14:6)?<br /><br />God did not tell him he'd win that fight, but it was a God-honoring endeavor with Biblical backing. So Jonathan set about to do it, looking to God, but not assuming any guarantees he didn't have.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-36797379694525677652010-10-30T14:54:28.740-07:002010-10-30T14:54:28.740-07:00Then there's this 'anecdote':
The yo...Then there's this 'anecdote': <br /><br />The young couple went to her parents house, home from college for the weekend. The young man went out back to speak with the young lady's father, seeking permission to ask her hand in marriage.<br /><br />Father: "What will you do?"<br /><br />Suitor: "I will attend the seminary, and God will provide."<br /><br />Father: "And for groceries, rent, utilities?"<br /><br />Suitor: "I shall be diligent in my studies, she shall encourage me, and God will provide."<br /><br />Father: "And what about insurance, or children, or car repairs?"<br /><br />Suitor: "We will live by faith, for God will provide."<br /><br />That night, the father and his wife were discussing the situation.<br /><br />Wife: "Well, what do you think?"<br /><br />Husband: "He has no plans, no skills, and no money. On the bright side, he thinks I'm God."<br /><br /><br />There, laugh a little. I'm seeing what Dan is saying here, and it's been rehearsed many times, as this: the only way to be assured that God is going to do something is if it is explicitly stated in Scripture that He will do so.<br /><br />You may draw encouragement from the lives of other believers, and you may see God's hand at work, but you are responsible to see that your own behavior is matched to the direction in the Word of God, be it KJV, ESV, or the original Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic, not matched to their behavior. I am neither Mueller nor Elliot, neither Bonhoeffer nor Booth. I am only Doug, and must build my life on Scripture alone.<br /><br />Have a great Reformation Day tomorrow. If anyone knocks on your door to trick-or-treat, tell them you're Tetzel and give them an indulgence.Doug Hibbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01099486048716032843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33818552781397773532010-10-30T06:59:40.572-07:002010-10-30T06:59:40.572-07:00Thanks for this post Dan.
It's rare that I en...Thanks for this post Dan.<br /><br />It's rare that I encounter such clear thoughts on this, especially coming from Canada where discerning God's will is apparently an epic mystery for most pastors I know.<br /><br />I've received so much amazingly bad counsel on this subject over the years that I'm still trying to consistently deprogram myself and bring my thinking into subjection to the word of God. It's annoying how bad ideas have deep roots that grow back if not properly dug out.<br /><br />If you're ever looking to get into vocational ministry (assuming you're already not, I don't know...), I'll invite you to Canada.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-75562555624519926272010-10-29T09:05:23.227-07:002010-10-29T09:05:23.227-07:00Everything we receive is in spite of our own sinfu...<i>Everything</i> we receive is in spite of our own sinful nature. <i>Everything</i> is an unmerited gift of God, paid for by the blood of Jesus Christ.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-70125169448188770422010-10-29T06:06:59.577-07:002010-10-29T06:06:59.577-07:00Can God not bring about good works in spite of peo...<i>Can God not bring about good works in spite of people working in the wrong fashion? </i><br /><br />Thank you - a should-be-obvious point that apparently is too elusive for some.<br /><br />I would add that <i>every</i> time God blesses, it is in spite of us to some degree.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-34782283339224233322010-10-29T06:01:42.641-07:002010-10-29T06:01:42.641-07:00Wow...looks like I missed a lot yesterday evening....Wow...looks like I missed a lot yesterday evening. At least I got to see the Giants go up 2-0 (they shut out the Rangers...that only happened to them 5 times all year).<br /><br />So, I guess I have one question for all the people who are throwing out names and such. Can God not bring about good works in spite of people working in the wrong fashion? Does He not do so with each one of us every day? The Bible gives some pretty clear advice on wisdom and also on the fact that <b><i>everybody</i></b> is supposed to care for widows, orphans, and <b><i>everybody</i></b> in the church.<br /><br />I have a sister-in-law who is a member of a large baptist church. She has Krohn's Disease and has had a lot of surgeries, tumors, etc. She has not told <b><i>anybody</i></b> in her church about what is going on because she has faith that God will take care of it and she doesn't want to be a burden. That's only half of the problem, though. She lives in Georgia, we live in Texas (her mom lives with us). Every time one of these surgeries happens, she calls and has her mom fly out there to help take care of her three year-old daughter and around the house. That wouldn't be so much of a problem except that her mom is over 60, diabetic, and has blockages in her neck. This is the type of situation that some people put others in when they are acting upon "faith" instead of doing what is wise <b><i>and</i></b> is prescribed in the Bible. To me, it actually is more of a display of pride than anything...and God <b><i>hates</i></b> pride. And yes, I am also looking in the mirror when I say that.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13987985549747283669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-25323299038513599452010-10-28T21:56:07.719-07:002010-10-28T21:56:07.719-07:00I have been following your posts now for three yea...I have been following your posts now for three years.<br />This one by far has been the most opportune and instructing one.<br />It summarized something that has been bothered me for the longest time.<br />Thanks DanThomas Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08406486510590654502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-68292454638989944772010-10-28T21:44:52.617-07:002010-10-28T21:44:52.617-07:00"Tom" isn't "Tom""Tom" isn't "Tom"Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17885795712009955563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-5883341225679231562010-10-28T20:16:55.274-07:002010-10-28T20:16:55.274-07:00@Dan: I don't see why this is such a tough co...@Dan: I don't see why this is such a tough concept for people to grasp. <br /><br />"For by wise guidance you will wage war, And in abundance of counselors there is victory."<br /><br />God doesn't draw up my battle plans. He doesn't tell me where to place the troops, what hill to charge, or what time to attack. Those decisions He's left to me, so long as I've followed all His other commands (such as seeking wise guidance). I don't need to justify personal command decisions because "God led me to do it." No. I charged that hill at sunrise because I listened to counsel and felt that was the best approach to take. <br /><br />As long as I've followed the Bible's guidance on the matters it does speak to, I can trust that God is working everything to His glory. And if He is glorified by my success, then I'll praise Him. And if I am a horrendous failure, I'll also praise Him, content in the knowledge that I followed God's Word.<br /><br />simple.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-40249612784192455922010-10-28T19:48:11.381-07:002010-10-28T19:48:11.381-07:00@Darby:
I have the opposite experience. People c...@Darby:<br /><br />I have the opposite experience. People claiming to sacrifice for God meanwhile they have rising debt, kids for whom they can't afford proper medical and dental care, and cars they can't maintain. And these people look down their noses at me because I have money.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-57341835546338974912010-10-28T19:34:59.282-07:002010-10-28T19:34:59.282-07:00@Vico
California's state income tax is on top...@Vico<br /><br />California's state income tax is on top of the Federal income tax. So if you are in the top tax bracket, your tax in CA will be about 48% not including Medicare and Social Security, which would bump that up closer to 55%.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-28858693555347321672010-10-28T14:14:15.502-07:002010-10-28T14:14:15.502-07:00Hey, here is a great interview on Youtube with Phi...Hey, here is a great interview on Youtube with Phil Vischer - Creator of Veggie Tales. Dan, I if you haven't seen it I think it will make your point exactly! (not really sure who the interviewer is). He speaks about how he started Veggie Tales as this great idea (leap of faith) for God and in hindsight realizes that God may have never even led him to do it....even though it was wildly successful. I was really encouraged and challenged at his humility in admitting this!<br /><br />Check it out!<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gZWzmTFinE&feature=relatedMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17896526969383731962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-31646520740221471382010-10-28T14:07:29.080-07:002010-10-28T14:07:29.080-07:00Dan:
Thanks, yeah, Sometimes I really feel like I ...Dan:<br />Thanks, yeah, Sometimes I really feel like I need to "test" myself to see if I am in the faith or if the way that I view the Bible and true biblical Christianity is solely based upon the context of my comfortable American life that I was raised in. I feel that many times I take my American context to the Bible instead of taking the Bible and defining how I live in my world.<br /><br />Many times when I try and discern or speak to a brother who is trying to discern something in his life I try and always go back to...."What do we KNOW to be true! What can we count on to be the will of God in our lives?" Well, in this conversation, we know that everything must center on the true biblical Gospel of Christ. As the spirit leads us in a constant understanding of this, then we begin walking in obedience to what we KNOW in the Bible and we know that God will not contradict what He has said there. I think the problem with blogging is the discussion is always limited to "yeah, but what about this guy". Even if that 'guy' was led by the Lord that does not mean it is normative for the entire body of Christ.<br /><br />Anyway, thanks for the postMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17896526969383731962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-74434515357022770122010-10-28T13:28:22.267-07:002010-10-28T13:28:22.267-07:00Dan,
If I may use you as an example...
Well, I w...Dan,<br /><br />If I may use you as an example...<br /><br />Well, I will anyway.<br /><br />You're a man who has both gifting and desire to be a pastor. You're also a man who is committed to becoming prepared for ministry.<br />You're also a man who sees the need to care for his family, and are working hard to that end.<br /><br />No pastorate yet, but a rather significant (in my eyes) ministry to many of us, one which you probably never imagined would/could happen.<br /><br />You've been faithful Dan, both with the gifts you've been given AND the responsibility you've been given.<br /><br />A man can do both, well.<br /><br />you give the lie to the idea that, since I haven't the opportunity to use my gifts as I would chose, I cannot then serve.<br /><br />Never fear, no pedestal for you. But still, you're an example, I think, of someone who is living what you wrote in this post.<br /><br />Which is exactly how it's supposed to work, no?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-77625539361134786202010-10-28T13:18:34.287-07:002010-10-28T13:18:34.287-07:00You didn't get that from anything I've eve...You didn't get that from anything I've ever written, Jim. Don't bury your talent and try to bill me for it.<br /><br />The options are not refusing to move until God flutters our gizzards on the one hand, or standing idle until forced to act on the other.<br /><br />Beyond that, it sounds like a question for pastoral counseling, which a blog isn't, and I encourage you thither.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-65737495096080254452010-10-28T13:16:02.648-07:002010-10-28T13:16:02.648-07:00What king, when preparing to go to war with agains...What king, when preparing to go to war with against another king, will not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to meet with him who comes against him with twenty thousand?<br /><br />I've used this before in talking about trust. Even in a high-pressure situation (like impending war) Jesus says we should sit and deliberate. On the other hand, Jesus doesn't say you have to calculate that you'll definitely win/succeed. The people around when we taught through this tended to auto-correct it to read "defeat" rather than "meet." The word for "meet" there is used elsewhere to describe combat encounters, but it has no connotation of victory. <br /><br />I'd paraphrase it as, when you get this idea, sit down and make sure you're not going to get destroyed before you get going. Don't go get embarrassed. Have a decent chance. There's still risk involved, but it's not rank foolishness.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05907559791904315181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-14900909074396307252010-10-28T13:14:00.355-07:002010-10-28T13:14:00.355-07:00Dan,
I've been struggling with this, but my st...Dan,<br />I've been struggling with this, but my struggle is not over what to believe. In fact, I must say I rather agree with you. The Bible gives us general principles and even a few standard procedures. But there is no indication on how to go from the general to the particular.<br /><br />How this works out personally is that God has gifted me in many different ways and given me a desire to use those gifts to His glory. However, He has not provided the means to use the bulk of these gifts. For example, I have a growing body of Christian music that I've written that will likely never grace the air. Therefore, unless I "step out in faith", which is Biblically uncertain, then I can only conclude that God doesn't want me to do much for Him. And when I do get to do something, it seems more like I went to the Forrest Gump school of leadership: it just happens that I was in the right place at the right time, which doesn't happen often.<br /><br />The tension comes because scripture would seem to indicate that we are to be about the business of Kingdom work, but that general principle doesn't seem to comport with the particular opportunities, or lack thereof, that God has provided to do just that. Anyway, your articles along this line have only reinforced my thinking that God might want me saved, but He doesn't much want me particularly involved with His work.Jim Pembertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01446388434272680014noreply@blogger.com