tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post8981247037219870325..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: "The God of the Second Chance" — sometimesPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-87612906879025010292008-02-16T05:42:00.000-08:002008-02-16T05:42:00.000-08:00I didn't think the first question serious. Yes, of...I didn't think the first question serious. Yes, of course I affirm the Biblical doctrine of the immutability of God.<BR/><BR/>The rest was the subject of the post. We can never presume that we will have other opportunities than the present. Read the last two sentences, they sum up the whole. Better still, read the whole.<BR/><BR/>Hope that helps you.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-79850774850263150972008-02-15T22:21:00.000-08:002008-02-15T22:21:00.000-08:00Dan: I'm not sure how much clearer I can be.I aske...<B>Dan:</B> I'm not sure how much clearer I can be.<BR/><BR/>I asked you: "Do you think that God is immutable?"<BR/><BR/>I then asked: "The idea of second chances seems to come from an idea of a mutable God, i.e. that he changes his mind whether or not he is going to extend grace to a person. Does this mean that we only have a pre-determined window of opportunity to be renewed by the Holy Spirit before he gives up on us and moves along to someone else, leaving us in a state where we could not repent even if we wanted to?"<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure how you could not see a question in those comments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-84192871859693660872008-02-15T18:03:00.000-08:002008-02-15T18:03:00.000-08:00Judah — I don't really know how to help you, beca...<B>Judah</B> — I don't really know how to help you, because I don't see your point or question. I re-read what I wrote, then I re-read your vigorous tangling of it, and I don't really know what it is you want of me. I'd simply be repeating the Scriptures I cited, and adding to them.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-9374047302078373622008-02-15T12:19:00.000-08:002008-02-15T12:19:00.000-08:00Gilbert: Thank the Lord that you're okay. May He ...Gilbert: Thank the Lord that you're okay. May He be a comfort and shining light to those families whose loved ones have been lost, and all those who have been traumatized by this tragedy.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-79176903963653849242008-02-15T11:11:00.000-08:002008-02-15T11:11:00.000-08:00Now, I don't want to seem insensitive to what's go...Now, I don't want to seem insensitive to what's gone on over in Gilbert's neck of the woods. My heart goes out to those affected.<BR/><BR/>But I'm just wondering where Phil's part 3 on depravity is. What's the deal?Zhangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14878405764860647836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-9251154064974781182008-02-15T09:27:00.000-08:002008-02-15T09:27:00.000-08:005 people who never got a "second chance".Gilbert, ...<I>5 people who never got a "second chance".</I><BR/><BR/>Gilbert, what a story! Thanks and praise to God that He delivered some people to have a "second chance".<BR/><BR/>Your statement above about 5 people who never got a "second chance" reminds me of the DJP blog post about the assassination of Bhutto whose last words were "Long Live Bhutto!"<BR/><BR/>I don't know you, but I'm glad the Lord kept you safe and out of harm's way.<BR/><BR/>Peace and blessings.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-39421906463155512382008-02-15T06:56:00.000-08:002008-02-15T06:56:00.000-08:00gilbert,Know that you and those you work with alon...gilbert,<BR/><BR/>Know that you and those you work with along with the families of loss are in my prayers as we speak.<BR/><BR/>In ChristS.J. Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15922550763548455625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-89767297327731720382008-02-15T06:35:00.000-08:002008-02-15T06:35:00.000-08:00Gilbert..Wow. And that's a non-Pagitt wow. I am th...Gilbert..<BR/><BR/>Wow. And that's a non-Pagitt wow. I am thankful you are okay, and am praying the Lord uses this awful event somehow to bring glory to Himself, plus awaken a few people to their need for Him. <BR/><BR/>I kind of like what World Magazine does when someone notable passes on. "Man knows not his time." Yesterday was abundant evidence of that.Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-10907096026179904102008-02-15T06:15:00.000-08:002008-02-15T06:15:00.000-08:00DJP: There just aren't many of us Popeye fans arou...DJP: There just aren't many of us Popeye fans around anymore.<BR/><BR/>Whyizzit that every other lame comic book hero has been renovated into a modern, 3-D action hero, but not Wimpy? Is it because there are just too many people these days who look like him, for him to be novel?<BR/><BR/>When we see Hollyweird re-doing Wimpy, I guess we'll know that they've reached the bottom of the barrel, eh?Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-34741859015447310792008-02-14T23:48:00.000-08:002008-02-14T23:48:00.000-08:00Judah, To answer whether God is immutable, (unchan...Judah, <BR/>To answer whether God is immutable, (unchangeable?) presumably one would have to look at the the attributes of His character that He has revealed to us, as a whole. I believe that some people have this idea that God revealed in the Old Testament is harsh and judgemental, in comparision with God revealed in the New Testament, loving, gracious and forgiving (for example). These people then wrongly conclude that either God changed or that these are different Gods.<BR/><BR/>I would submit that the reason that people believe that God is changeable would be because they have a selective, or incomplete understanding of God's character, as God has revealed it, in Scripture. This would be true of the annoyingly titled "Red Letter Christians" who don't even seem to give the Lord credit for most of what those red letters say, for instance about judgement and hypocrisy. <BR/><BR/>God is merciful and gracious, and I can number abundant ways in which he has not repayed me as I deserved for my sinfulness. However, this is a function of His mercy, and His Sovereignty, not my worthiness of His forgiveness. Here is a part of a poem I wrote on reflection on Psalm 103 and Psalm 8.<BR/><BR/>"Who is man that you should love him?<BR/>Care for him in all his plight?<BR/>Far your thoughts transcend above Him,<BR/>Undeserving of Your sight.<BR/><BR/>But you are God and you take mind,<BR/>Of all our frailties, in your care,<BR/>Fatherly to us, you're kind,<BR/>Our burdens become yours to bear.Poetresshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02387285855769130334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-35659887298796327012008-02-14T22:59:00.000-08:002008-02-14T22:59:00.000-08:00Doulos:Thank you very, very much. Your words have ...Doulos:<BR/><BR/>Thank you very, very much. Your words have been sweet manna.<BR/><BR/>Dan:<BR/><BR/>I respect you for your years of grace-guided biblical scholarship. Personally, I can't get on board with dispensationalism because of how I understand Romans 9 to 11, but I respect the hermeneutical reasons that led you to embracing it; and I know that you, Phil, Phil's boss, and many other "dispies" take Spirit-led sanctification in the life of the believer very seriously. You've taught me a lot about discipleship over the last year, and I look forward to much more edification from you in the years to come.<BR/><BR/>By the way, I agree with you that the "stubbornly unrepentant" fall into a different category. This is where Hebrews 10 seems to apply. There but for the grace of the sovereign Lord go we all....Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-57509086382462722672008-02-14T22:05:00.000-08:002008-02-14T22:05:00.000-08:00Dan:Judah -- did you email Frank yet?i most certai...<B>Dan:</B><I>Judah -- did you email Frank yet?</I><BR/><BR/>i most certainly did. He was making sure I was not some "troll," whatever that is. He said I could continue commenting.<BR/><BR/>So, are you going to address my comments or just pretend those issues don't exist?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-79735098508159963152008-02-14T21:27:00.000-08:002008-02-14T21:27:00.000-08:00When second chances run out...Pyros, et al,Normall...When second chances run out...<BR/><BR/>Pyros, et al,<BR/><BR/>Normally I leave some simple message when I'm trying to be serious, and then lay a joke (or a joke of an egg) making an attempt to be comedic.<BR/><BR/>None of that. Not now.<BR/><BR/>I've disclosed here that I work as a meteorologist, by trade. What you don't know is that I work at a place that just had a rampant school shooting today---Northern Illinois University.<BR/><BR/>I was 3 buildings away when it happened. Being that I have a weather center with police scanners, when I got a call that it had just happened, I turned on my police scanner. I like to listen to it at home; in a college town, there's always something interesting going on. But the chill I got listening to a frantic police officer call for MediVacs and said he had 15-20 down was nothing short of scary. <BR/><BR/>And then, someone called up and said the shooter might be heading my way.<BR/><BR/>I turned off the lights, closed and locked my door, closed the blinds, turned off the scanner and crouched down away from the door for a while as footsteps went up and down the stairs outside my office. My plan was that if someone started shooting to get into my office, I'd jump on my computer table and then give the drop kick of his life when he busted through. I enjoy amateur wrestling, and was ready to put a gunman into a headlock and knock him silly for a while til the cops got there if need be.<BR/><BR/>Well, the rumor was false, and I was allowed to leave my office after about an hour for home. I drove home on the only way out, oddly enough, driving close to Cole Hall, where the gunman had killed at least 5 people.<BR/><BR/>5 people who never got a "second chance".<BR/><BR/>As others have stated, God gives us a second chance every time we breathe. Repent when you have the chance and turn to Jesus while you can. An acquaintance I know is one of the ones shot. One of those sometimes will be your LAST time.<BR/>Will you be ready for that last sometime?<BR/><BR/>Sometimes indeed, Dan.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes.Gilberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05267525662313103148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-34028453697365694722008-02-14T20:36:00.000-08:002008-02-14T20:36:00.000-08:00Solameanie,"I think Sam will be referring to Jael ...Solameanie,<BR/><BR/>"I think Sam will be referring to Jael and the tent spike soon. I second the referral."<BR/><BR/><BR/>Ahhh, alas, I come late. But here it is for you. <BR/><BR/>Dan, hammer that spike. <BR/>Thwack thwack thwack.<BR/><BR/>(that actually sound like a duck with a lithp) Anyway.<BR/><BR/>Solameanie,<BR/><BR/>you also said:<BR/>"Then I remember that I'd best show others the same grace and mercy God shows me."<BR/><BR/>Amen. A preacher I heard once down south said: "those that preach Grace awtta have some".<BR/><BR/>I say amen again to that while I remove yet another stake from my forehead.S.J. Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15922550763548455625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-18821498136108563652008-02-14T19:21:00.000-08:002008-02-14T19:21:00.000-08:00PT -- Thank you so much for sharing that. Testimon...<B>PT</B> -- Thank you so much for sharing that. Testimonies such as yours are more humbling, sobering, and encouraging than you know. God bless you.<BR/><BR/><B>Mark</B> -- I think that kind of snarl is what happens when you isolate a concept or two and then spin around with them. Take the whole of the Bible, and it's actually much simpler than that. God tells us to repent. We should. If we do, it's His grace. Now is the only opportunity assured to us.<BR/><BR/><B>CSLewis3147</B> -- Thanks for the chuckle, yes... and I'm holding you to your word on the footnotes!<BR/><BR/><B>Judah</B> -- did you email Frank yet?<BR/><BR/><B>Strategem</B> -- "I'll Gladly Repent Tuesday for a Graceburger Today."<BR/><BR/>I like it. But I was a huge Popeye fan as a kid.<BR/><BR/><B>Mike RIccardi</B> -- thanks very much, I made the correction.<BR/><BR/><B>Stefan</B> -- yes, the principle applies across the board. I think the people Jesus most repeatedly commands to repent in Scripture are the professed believers in Revelation 2-3. But -- and this could be the topic of another post -- my understanding of the Biblical doctrine of assurance and security does not hold out comfort to the stubbornly unrepentant.<BR/><BR/>BTW, I <I>am </I>a dispensationalist, and the whole "gutless grace" thing is a perversion, not a defining facet, of that understanding of Scripture.<BR/><BR/><B>Tim</B> -- praise God, and may He be glorified in your young man.<BR/><BR/><B>Kent</B> -- "The whale and seaweed seminary"<BR/><BR/>I love it!<BR/><BR/>Jonah has to have been one of the few preachers, ever, who was depressed and angry because his hearers <I>did</I> take the Word to heart, and repent!DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-59743171223920234752008-02-14T18:31:00.000-08:002008-02-14T18:31:00.000-08:00I was reading Jonah to my kids the other night and...I was reading Jonah to my kids the other night and I was enjoying seeing the mercy of God in that account. I was thinking about how disgusting I am when I lack compassion. <BR/><BR/>It seems that Jonah's "second chance" was all wrapped up in "jumping in." To get there was the supernatural storm, that supernatural lot casting, Jonah getting the short stick. And then, "Hmmmm, I can die with all these idolaters when the storm destroys this ship or I can die jumping in alone." There was a tiny bit of repentance in "jumping in." But huge amounts of mercy. The whale and seaweed seminary and the gourd. A powerful message. And I would call Nineveh a receptive crowd. It's hard to be impressed with Jonah's oratory skills.<BR/><BR/>Interesting read.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-84366517133753593362008-02-14T18:21:00.000-08:002008-02-14T18:21:00.000-08:00stratagem, aside from the promotion of animal sacr...stratagem, aside from the promotion of animal sacrifice and worshipping in the buff, I am not sure what would cause your service to filter out my statement of faith. <BR/><BR/>Barring that, you can find all that stuff on my blog <A HREF="http://www.morethancake.org" REL="nofollow">More Than Cake</A>.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00772168718321735432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-23096159174893419102008-02-14T17:27:00.000-08:002008-02-14T17:27:00.000-08:00stefan: If I took an inventory of the fruit in my ...<B>stefan:</B> <I>If I took an inventory of the fruit in my cupboard right now, it'd consist of a couple of crabapples and a rotten fig or two. The problem is, knowing my situation, am I really desiring to have better fruit in my larder, or am I allowing myself to be content with the rotten fruit I have?</I><BR/><BR/>A couple of observations, stefan. First and foremost, remember Who it is that produces the fruit. It ain't you, it's Him. And who is it that is the real fruit insepctor, the One who determines the true quality and quantity of spiritual fruit? Again, it ain't you, or me, or your pastor or your accountability pal. It's Him. And who do you think it is that is glorified when He produces even a tiny fig of real spiritual fruit in your life? Same answer. So put all that together and tell me, will He allow one of His elect to truly live a life of fruitlessness indefinitely? Absolutely not. Will there be dry spells in the vineyard when the branches aren't heavy with grapes, when the ground seems dry? Yes, and all of us have been there. Will there be seasons of failed crops? Yes. But again, will the Master Vinedresser allow His choice ones to go on indefinitely with no discernable fruit of His presence? Not according to His words over and over to us.<BR/><BR/>So take heart, and look to Him for the true evaluation of your fruitfulness, for the desire to be fruitful, and for the grace to live a life that glorifies Him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-11523340986905177932008-02-14T17:18:00.000-08:002008-02-14T17:18:00.000-08:00Joe MillerI went to your reunion church website an...Joe Miller<BR/><BR/>I went to your reunion church website and my internet filter (truevine.net) wouldn't let me go to your doctrinal statement. They've actually got it categorized as "occult" !!<BR/><BR/>What you <I>got</I> in that thing, dude?Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51785429204019097282008-02-14T17:04:00.000-08:002008-02-14T17:04:00.000-08:00As I've read and chewed on some of these comments ...As I've read and chewed on some of these comments I have come to understand what it is I disagree with in the "God of second chances" cliche. And that is that there are no such things as "chances" with God. At all. When we talk about second chances, we mean that "Oops, I failed the first time, but just let me try again and I promise I'll get it right." But that is absolutely, positively, categorically anti-grace and anti-Gospel. "Chances" to do it right are purely based on opportunities for works. The reality is that as depraved and lost human beings, God could give us an infinite number of chances and we'd never get it right. And that's the whole point. Didn't I read somewhere recently (wait, I think it was right here!) about man's total inability? God doesn't give us a chance to repent and believe, and praise Him that He doesn't! Instead, He sovereignly causes His elect to believe. And leaves nothing in that transaction to chance.<BR/><BR/>Now, if we're talking about "second chances" for obedience and turning from sins this side of conversion, of course God is all about second chances. Because if He wasn't, we would all be toast within seconds after our conversion. But again, the same blood of Christ that covered our sin before conversion is sufficient to atone for our sins that we continue to commit as we travel the path to santification. He continues to give us opportunities (I like that term better than "chances") to obey Him, to live in holiness, to mortify sin. And when we inevitably fail to do so perfectly (just like Paul, a la Rom 7), He disciplines us and continues to geal with us in grace. So you could call it "second chances", but I prefer to view it as amazing grace.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-77829792906325328642008-02-14T16:30:00.000-08:002008-02-14T16:30:00.000-08:00"the consequences are the second chances!"My pea b..."the consequences are the second chances!"<BR/><BR/>My pea brain just ain't gettin' it. But hey, you're prolly right.<BR/><BR/>"the consequences are the second chances!"<BR/><BR/>Blessing to you. I'll discuss this a little more with the wife.donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51076766928907615282008-02-14T14:36:00.000-08:002008-02-14T14:36:00.000-08:00Amen Dan.Amen Dan.jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03607371903891883498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-47736465685116155132008-02-14T14:04:00.000-08:002008-02-14T14:04:00.000-08:00Is God a hypocrite? This was a question that came...Is God a hypocrite? This was a question that came up in a recent discussion at our Sunday Conversation. We are working our way through Acts and we came to the passage in Ch 5 and the story of Annanias & Sophira. Why, if God is all about forgiveness, did He not give this couple a chance to repent of their sin? <BR/><BR/>I think that is a great question. Is God a hypocrite? Should he not give everyone a second chance? <BR/><BR/>My own answer to this question is <A HREF="http://www.ortingreunion.com/content/view/180/60/" REL="nofollow"> contained within my sermon</A>, but I am so thankful that you are asking the right questions here on this blog.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00772168718321735432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-13219189391345804892008-02-14T13:22:00.000-08:002008-02-14T13:22:00.000-08:00Well, he's seemingly won the world for the moment,...Well, he's <I>seemingly</I> won the world <I>for the moment,</I> but of course in God's grand redemptive plan, Satan ultimately has control over nothing.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-37386360358713560292008-02-14T13:19:00.000-08:002008-02-14T13:19:00.000-08:00Strong Tower:Thank you. Thank whichever Scottish ...Strong Tower:<BR/><BR/>Thank you. Thank whichever Scottish (?) preacher you were evoking as well. Stop thinking about it...just do it. I'll do it.<BR/><BR/>TUAD:<BR/><BR/>Wow, does your hypothetical scenario ever ring of truth! I think there is a perception among non-believers that conservative evangelicals use the prospect of eternal hellfire as a way of "scaring" people into believing God, offering money to the church, and getting rich off that money, coercively maintaining control, etc. Of course, this perception is manifestly wrong on every level—at least in the case of Biblical churches; 1 Peter-type wolves and charlatans are another matter. Satan has won the world by convincing us that there's really no such thing as eternal torment—that it's nothing more than a fear tactic.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.com