tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post114294481471281841..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Dilettante MissionariesPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1143027543415223632006-03-22T03:39:00.000-08:002006-03-22T03:39:00.000-08:00Gummby:I'll bet he asks me about it when he comes ...Gummby:<BR/><BR/>I'll bet he asks me about it when he comes back.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1143005992977363702006-03-21T21:39:00.000-08:002006-03-21T21:39:00.000-08:00What are the chances that Argle actually makes it ...What are the chances that Argle actually makes it out here to read this?Matt Gummhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14698469400042045105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1143005850375663592006-03-21T21:37:00.000-08:002006-03-21T21:37:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Matt Gummhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14698469400042045105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1143000812526093052006-03-21T20:13:00.000-08:002006-03-21T20:13:00.000-08:00I have a fellow church member, Triston, who I call...I have a fellow church member, Triston, who I call "little Luther", because he's such a fired-up reformed believer, who has been a missionary in Nepal for 11 years; married to a Nepali sister in Christ. he's a dear friend, and the Lord has be using him to take the gospel to people who have never heard the name of Jesus Christ.<BR/>We Calvinist are forseen as non-evangelistic, I agree. I appreciate your heart for missions. Keep on!<BR/>Of course there is John Piper's book, Let the Nations be Glad!, which reveals the heart of most of us Calvinists, I would think.<BR/>All for the Cross!donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142995805233255952006-03-21T18:50:00.000-08:002006-03-21T18:50:00.000-08:00Yes Donsands, I am actually, in retrospect, rather...Yes Donsands, I am actually, in retrospect, rather embarrassed I made such a long comment. I imagine with all those run-on sentences one could never guess I am a home educator and published writer. Do I get the award for writing the longest comment on a TeamPyro post? <BR/>But I guess, in going so overboard, perhaps the Armenians that might read this blog will see that Calvinists really do have a fervent heart for Christ-centered Missions and the Gospel...??? or not.4givenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604421713579961024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142993387506311472006-03-21T18:09:00.000-08:002006-03-21T18:09:00.000-08:00"..the best short-term mission work ... is that wo..."..the best short-term mission work ... is that work .. that goes alongside ... full time."<BR/><BR/>That sounds like a solid statement. That hit me.<BR/>Somebody has to have a huge heart for missions to write such a long blog! PTL<BR/>May the lord continue to bless you and your mission board with His wisdom and grace. Amen.donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142985809486817432006-03-21T16:03:00.000-08:002006-03-21T16:03:00.000-08:00Thanks Frank! This is good food for thought; and ...Thanks Frank! This is good food for thought; and should be used as a beginning for those considering taking / leading / being part of a ST missions trip.Pastor Eldredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09514753493048300618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142984601792969062006-03-21T15:43:00.001-08:002006-03-21T15:43:00.001-08:00My wife and I have been on the mission field for j...My wife and I have been on the mission field for just over 6 months now, in Japan.<BR/>We have been asked to consider "hosting" short-term mission trips from our church and such, and I always wonder what the point would be, to be honest. Going back to the 1st of Patagonia Mike's 3 points, I don't know what that would accomplish, at least around here and at this time. Perhaps in the future it will be clearer to me.<BR/>Another thing to consider on the "encourage the career/long-term missionary" front is whether your presence really will be a benefit to them or whether it will be a big pain in the neck taxiing you around, interpreting for you, keeping you outta trouble w/ the locals, etc. Wouldn't always happen, but it sometimes does, and some from my church, very conscious of this, have done short-term trips to E Asia to encourage a friend who is a long-termer there. They were very conscious about whether they would be a burden or not.<BR/>Finally, as for Patagonia Mike's 2nd point (que frio debe hacer alla donde vives, no?) my wife and I went on a short-term trip to Juarez w/ our church 20 months ago. It was a mixed youth/adult trip that worked very well and we served as the interpreters. Anyway, part of the trip's goal was to build some retirement houses for Mexican Evangelical pastors who ordinarily had very little financial support. As we arrived w/ our energetic youth and our adult volunteers w/ lots of tools and know-how (not me - all I had was Spanish and a hammer), more than one of us were struck by the fact that some of the adult male friends of the pastor, at least one of whom we had seen at church that Sunday, were just sitting around and chilling out during the day. Why didn't they come to help us out? Only one of them ever came to contribute, and it's not like they were job-searching or anything. <BR/>Just an anecdote to refine the discussion further. Peace out from an Ozark boy.Rhologyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142984584557978802006-03-21T15:43:00.000-08:002006-03-21T15:43:00.000-08:00Wow. How Refreshing! Good post.Wow. How Refreshing! Good post.R. W. Nutjobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07330594458581876472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142983314624182652006-03-21T15:21:00.000-08:002006-03-21T15:21:00.000-08:00Thanks for the post, I generally have the same res...Thanks for the post, <BR/><BR/>I generally have the same resistance to short term missions. (especially where I live, in Australia, where we are just so far from everyone)<BR/><BR/>The only real counter I have heard was from a lady who worked in an HQ of a missionary agency, who said that all their long term missionaries had either grown up in missionary families, or had been on a short term mission at some point.<BR/><BR/>Which is not to say that there aren't better ways of oprganizing them, or more discernment required in who we encourage to go on them.<BR/><BR/>TimTim Adeneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08107909558310150861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142983021050755062006-03-21T15:17:00.000-08:002006-03-21T15:17:00.000-08:00This blog hits home for me in several ways. I am o...This blog hits home for me in several ways. I am on the missions board at my church... I am a Calvinist that loves to share the Gospel... I am married to a doctor that is a family member with 3 other siblings becoming doctors and a father that is a doctor that often spend their "vacation" time to go on short-term mission trips that entail not only spreading the Gospel alongside the full-time missionaries there, but the locals that are being raised up as learners of Christ, while these doctors are performing surgeries for 12 hours a day... (long lines of people desperately needing help, and thus providing even more opportunites for the missionaries to serve these people)... and they do not do it to be patted on the back. It is back-breaking hard work. It is exhausting. And it is what they choose to do on their vacation time for the glory of God... and they go back to it every summer.<BR/>One of the siblings is almost done with residency and will be headed to a "closed" country to be a doctor (a.k.a. a "missionary")... my father is a missionary... lastly my Uncle does short-term construction-type missions.<BR/>It does boil down to motive. But I can say quite earnestly say, those full-time missionaries truly love and need the short-term missionaries that provide them further opportunities to serve the people they live amongst. I do know there are those that do not have the right motives before going. They either come back changed profoundly, being more effective in the command to spread the Gospel or they sadly come back and think they have done their part and they are through.<BR/><BR/>As a member of the missions board we are in the process of revamping it since it was originally written from an Armenian perspective and not well thought out... and since the introduction of the Doctrines of Grace to this church, which is quite a story in and of itself, we are essentially starting from the ground up... e.g. will not fund missions to a woman in a teaching/preaching position (we have already caught some flack for that stance), the missionary has to agree with our statement of faith and doctrinal distinctives, and whether long-term or short-term, we have to maintain that God's message will be proclaimed for the purpose of glorifying God which must include a high view of God, High view of scripture, the reality that evangelism cannot be seperated from discipleship and thus making sure a way for those evangelized is established so they can become learners of Christ for the "Great Commision" entails "going and making DISCIPLES of all nations" (not throwing them to the wolves after sharing the gospel from an easy-believism perspective)... which also goes hand-in-hand with church planting and thus lovingly inclined to meaningful fellowship so they can can thus grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.<BR/>In saying all that, the best short-term mission work we have seen really is that work mentioned above, that goes alongside the work of the full-time missionary and fulfilling needs that he cannot fulfill either in his work, or through the locals.<BR/><BR/>David said: "I think short term missions can serve as a spring board for future action plus can serve to wake up christians."<BR/><BR/>I throughly agree. It can cause a life committment in several ways. Maybe not full-time missions, but in other ways. E.g. there is always a need for funding, for those willing to buy the Bibles, for earnest prayer... and perhaps it can stimulate a deep longing and action towards living out and sharing the Gospel wherever they are. <BR/><BR/>By the way, where did the term "missions" originate? It isn't a Biblical term. I like Bunyans "Evangelist"... greek word for evangel is Gospel. The "Great Commission" is another coined term. But then so is "trinity"... of which I wholeheartedly believe in the "trinity".<BR/><BR/>Patagonia Mike1: Please consider contacting my husband and I via e-mail with your insight on this as we work through the details of developing our Missions Policy.4givenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604421713579961024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142982045313562882006-03-21T15:00:00.000-08:002006-03-21T15:00:00.000-08:00Great article. I'd like to add another point.Short...Great article. I'd like to add another point.<BR/><BR/>Short term missions seem to be the trend in many churches. With that in mind, some years ago as a single person (divorced) and working with at-risk youth, I decided to become a single foster parent. I saw it as a great opportunity to provide a home for the many homeless and at-risk youth in my town, and a great way for my church to be involved in ministry with kids. I had three adolescent boys. One boy from an Indian reservation, one whose mom had cancer and was unable to care for him, and one who had been abused. Out of a church of over 500 people, only one guy spent time with these kids. He played basketball or took them places about twice a month. Two women offered respite care.<BR/><BR/>In the meantime short term missions for teens and folks in my church was doing a brisk business.candyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06088593538648596769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142979858678277982006-03-21T14:24:00.000-08:002006-03-21T14:24:00.000-08:00I've not done a short term mission, but I know of ...I've not done a short term mission, but I know of one example that's a good one (I think). A church in a tough living rural area of Jamaica was destroyed by Hurricane Gilbert (1988?). It just sat there decaying and roofless. There were no local skills or money to rebuild it. About 1998 or so a group of guys from our church with masonry and carpentry skills and strong backs went down there at the request of a missionary and rebuilt the thing. The pastor down there says if they hadn't come down, it wouldn't have been rebuilt.<BR/><BR/>But I do agree with you about probably the majority of short term vacations, I mean missions.Neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16625691560372353977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142978548688189592006-03-21T14:02:00.000-08:002006-03-21T14:02:00.000-08:00O. K. I am now officially Turkish. Awesome post....O. K. I am now officially Turkish. Awesome post. That has bugged me for years.<BR/><BR/>Also the inevitable response of every single person who goes on one of these vacation/mission trips when they return home is always something like, "We have it way to good here. You should be ashamed that you have a car to drive."<BR/><BR/>Mission trips are fine. But let's do some actual mission work.Jeremy Weaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02552780649310262425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142974127713923082006-03-21T12:48:00.000-08:002006-03-21T12:48:00.000-08:00Kim:[not trying to start anything, blogosphere]Sou...Kim:<BR/><BR/>[not trying to start anything, blogosphere]<BR/><BR/>Sounds like iMonk to me. You should ask him.<BR/><BR/>[/not trying to start anything, blogosphere]FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142974042705368922006-03-21T12:47:00.000-08:002006-03-21T12:47:00.000-08:00Mike --Great insights, and I had a feeling that an...Mike --<BR/><BR/>Great insights, and I had a feeling that any doctor is a good doctor on the mission field. Our church supports an optimologist and a dentist who both travel broadly to deliver health care in a missions context.<BR/><BR/>For your pic, go to your blogger control panel, click "Edit Profile", and about half-way down the page there's a place to drop your link in for your photo.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142973333360882432006-03-21T12:35:00.000-08:002006-03-21T12:35:00.000-08:00Frank, We have been serving in southern Chile for ...Frank, We have been serving in southern Chile for 20+ years. Right now we are serving at about 53 degrees south latitude. Let me say our volunteer involvement has changed over the years. Some of the ways that we have seen teams used effectively is in the area of medical care clinics, health education and dentistry. Some of the teams that we use help us open doors that have been closed. We have used teams to help in Intensive English camps (one week) that enable us to engage people for Bible studies and eventually Church starts. I am not saying that all volunteer short term missions have had or will have a positive effect. I struggle along with my team to use teams to the glory of God. Sometimes it works well and sometimes not. We don't do the construction type teams or mass evangelism team thing so I really can't comment on that. There are groups we do not work with that come in with a 10 question type survey you add up the positive responses and surprise your a christian! Anyway I try to be faithful to God and the doctrines of grace.... BTW how do all you experienced bloggers post those nifty pictures by your name. Hey...give me a break I've been out of the country a while.Patagonia Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10934713185617461271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142972877421883382006-03-21T12:27:00.000-08:002006-03-21T12:27:00.000-08:00Very thought-provoking, Frank.One thing that has g...Very thought-provoking, Frank.<BR/><BR/>One thing that has gone on in the church that I attend is that young men go to bible school, uncertain of what they're headed for, return three or four years later and go out on the mission field because they don't know what else to do. They spend a few months on the mission field, and then return to the workforce, out of the ministry. I don't understand it.Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02288648996304246570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142972565487851102006-03-21T12:22:00.001-08:002006-03-21T12:22:00.001-08:00never.never.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142972538296682592006-03-21T12:22:00.000-08:002006-03-21T12:22:00.000-08:00No, the self-promotion will never end.No, the self-promotion will never end.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142972185214950342006-03-21T12:16:00.000-08:002006-03-21T12:16:00.000-08:00Mr Turk, are you trying to boost your comment coun...Mr Turk, are you trying to boost your comment count all by your lonesome?<BR/> Will this self-promotion never end?Kayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14873728356115837593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142971115074387032006-03-21T11:58:00.000-08:002006-03-21T11:58:00.000-08:00And I just re-read my own post, and realized I sho...And I just re-read my own post, and realized I should add this:<BR/><BR/>ARGLE: I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU IN THIS POST.<BR/><BR/>Argle knows who he is. The rest of you be about your business.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142971050418007822006-03-21T11:57:00.000-08:002006-03-21T11:57:00.000-08:00Libbie:those bookstore owners are always anglin' f...Libbie:<BR/><BR/>those bookstore owners are always anglin' for a cut.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142970960871503752006-03-21T11:56:00.000-08:002006-03-21T11:56:00.000-08:00Mike --Being who I am perceived to be on the inter...Mike --<BR/><BR/>Being who I am perceived to be on the internet, it will be hard to ask this question without it sounding snarky or like a set-up, but I'd be interested in where you worked as a missionary and in particularly-good uses of short-timers where locals could not have done it cheaper/better.<BR/><BR/>I wrote this post as someone who is looking in from the outside; you're on the inside, and I want to know what you think.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1142969581753319872006-03-21T11:33:00.000-08:002006-03-21T11:33:00.000-08:00Good post. Over the years while serving as a missi...Good post. Over the years while serving as a missionary I have hosted and or worked with hundreds of volunteers. The point you make about short term missions not becoming a vacation is well taken. I would say that most of the teams I have worked with have come to work hard and give the glory to God. There have been some individuals with other motives.... Anyway I have a few suggestion for anyone wanting to go on a short term mission trip. 1. Find out how what you will be doing works into the strategy of the missionary and his work. 2. Ask if you will be doing something that can be done more easily by nationals on the field? 3.What are the desired results (expectations) of this trip? Not all missionaries can justify the use of volunteer teams in their work. Many of us find however that when the teams are worked into the strategy of the work they can be a great blessing. I have seen many vols go back to the states with their lives changed forever. When teams go under the leadership and Lordship of Christ great things can happen. When they dont.....Oh well thats another story.Patagonia Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10934713185617461271noreply@blogger.com