tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post114735999816060497..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Sister... show mercy!Phil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger70125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-17040280097066934662007-07-01T22:06:00.000-07:002007-07-01T22:06:00.000-07:00Exactly right, Cynthia. This post wasn't supposed ...Exactly right, Cynthia. This post wasn't supposed to be about dressing in church, alone. That was adduced as an extreme example. I did mean <I>anywhere</I>.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-17036214525644285132007-06-29T17:18:00.000-07:002007-06-29T17:18:00.000-07:00Thank you for sharing your wonderful thoughts on t...Thank you for sharing your wonderful thoughts on this "delicate" matter. I only have one thing to add to it...ladies, be aware of what you wear not only to church, but the rest of the week and in the rest of the world, as well. You're not only being seen by Christian brothers, but you're a living witness to the world of Who and What our Lord is, and as such, it is our responsibility to set the correct and proper example. Thank you.Cynthia Robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08208159892446895187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-56090644224191055992007-05-07T11:24:00.000-07:002007-05-07T11:24:00.000-07:00I happen to agree with you. My church is quite st...I happen to agree with you. My church is quite straight forward about this issue. Nevertheless, I have seen a leopard print thong peeking out of a pair of pants on a woman in front of me during worship. I tapped her on the shoulder and told her to pull down her shirt.<BR/><BR/>Every once in awhile, my pastor will address the issue from the pulpit and serve notice that if the ushers spot indecency, they will ask the person to step out of the service. <BR/><BR/>And they have done it.<BR/><BR/>SherriSherrihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642667069944645802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-71762789274190053102007-05-01T07:17:00.000-07:002007-05-01T07:17:00.000-07:00Pants while violating the principle of distinction...<I>Pants while violating the principle of distinction between men and women, are also always immodest on women. They "frame" the crotch, rear and legs, and bring visual attention to them.</I><BR/><BR/>Which is why men should not wear pants either. I'm only being somewhat facetious here. But let's face facts: If the pants are too loose, we all too often end up seeing the man's boxer shorts sticking above the waistband. Even worse, we all too often see parts of the man's body we would rather not see. (I really have no legitimate desire to see anything "below the belt" on a man who is not my husband.) If the pants are too tight and the crotch is "framed"...need I say more? I know men are overly enamored with and often quite proud of that portion of their anatomy, but must everyone else's attention be drawn to it as well?Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01847552432061325769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-56321294713229139342007-05-01T02:23:00.000-07:002007-05-01T02:23:00.000-07:00Good post, Dan. Just one bit not helpful - googli...Good post, Dan. Just one bit not helpful - googling modest women's clothing does not signify how easy it is to find the same. Buying clothes online is disastrous. Finding nice modest clothes in shops is difficult - more so than finding clothes that fit generally, which is quite hard enough as it is for those who don't have a 'perfect' figure. Suggestion: <B>pray before and during shopping</B>. I pray that my Father would help me steward well the money he's given me, and that 'my' purchases would honour him. Trying something on, I should not just be looking at how good it looks, but at, 'Lord, help me honour you in wearing this.' My conscience is shouting at me fairly clearly if I'm not wanting to pray that! <BR/><BR/><B>Sherry</B> said, <I>"...isn't that why they are dressing like that in the first place? So the men WILL look?" </I> I'd say often that's not the case. Girls dress for other girls. They dress like that because that's what their friends wear, and what all they see in films / on TV says looks good on them. They're thinking about fitting in and looking good - security, identity - not necessarily about attracting male attention. They'll dress that way when they're going round to a girl friend's house where there'll be no guys around! <I>(This doesn't mean they shouldn't be thinking about whether it's helpful to guys - just saying, it's not necessarily that they're setting out to be unhelpful.)</I>étrangèrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02802871565840479439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1167769194738672262007-01-02T12:19:00.000-08:002007-01-02T12:19:00.000-08:00Maybe the casual guys should think about the fact ...Maybe the casual guys should think about the fact that every worship service is the wedding of Christ to his bride, the Church.<BR/><BR/>Pants while violating the principle of distinction between men and women, are also always immodest on women. They "frame" the crotch, rear and legs, and bring visual attention to them.Lance Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11275043953229783836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1150034961575313492006-06-11T07:09:00.000-07:002006-06-11T07:09:00.000-07:00Classical Presbyterian asked "What about weddings?...<B>Classical Presbyterian</B> asked "What about weddings?" This is long past this post's time, but for the sake of Posterity, I thought I'd add <A HREF="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2220119,00.html" REL="nofollow"> this confirming article</A>, just published.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1147579339851068192006-05-13T21:02:00.000-07:002006-05-13T21:02:00.000-07:00If I had read this a few years ago, my face would ...If I had read this a few years ago, my face would have been red with anger. I am awed and eternally grateful that the LORD has refashioned me to be the kind of woman to now read this and say "he's absolutely right. And I have to continue to guard myself against committing that."<BR/><BR/>I'm glad you posted this. We <I>do</I> need to be constantly reminded. We change our clothes every day, after all. I pray that any woman who <I>would</I> be offended by your post would have her pride crushed and her eyes open to reality.<BR/><BR/>Again, thanks for the post!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1147529913916998342006-05-13T07:18:00.000-07:002006-05-13T07:18:00.000-07:00Mist: some may be tempted if you show up in a pota...<B>Mist</B>: <I>some may be tempted if you show up in a potato sack</I><BR/><BR/>That's appallingly true. I'll go you even one better: some may be tempted all alone, ten miles away from the nearest women, in the desert, or in the mountains.<BR/><BR/>I could have gone on in another direction, as well. That proneness, that tendency is there, it's a lifelong battle, and it's a problem in itself.<BR/><BR/>But think about this: with that temptation comes a revulsion at oneself, which brings discouragement and temptation to despair. "Oh, dear God, why am I thinking that? How did that thought even <I>get</I> into my mind? What a hopeless loser of a wreck I am... I'm here, trying to worship You, and in a blink, without anyone even trying to do anything to me, I'm thinking <I>this</I>!"<BR/><BR/>One can understand part of the motivation to join a monastery. But of course the problem is that wherever I go, there I am. The real root is in that little outpost of Hell between my ears. That's where the battle is.<BR/><BR/>As you and everyone (thank God) seems to have understood, my point isn't that anyone else <I>causes</I> this struggle. But it is that others can make it easier, or harder. One cannot <I>cause</I> another to stumble; but (s)he may be an <I>occasion</I> of stumbling.<BR/><BR/>And one more time: I spoke of church, but did not have only church in mind.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1147467172936881652006-05-12T13:52:00.000-07:002006-05-12T13:52:00.000-07:00The girltalk blog recently addressed this subject ...The girltalk blog recently addressed this subject in their <A HREF="http://girltalk.blogs.com/girltalk/modesty/index.html" REL="nofollow">series</A> on "Fashion and Following the Savior."<BR/><BR/>They have a *very* well-done printable piece called "Modesty Heart Check" available <A HREF="http://www.sovereigngraceministries.org/pdf/teaching/modesty_heart_check.pdf" REL="nofollow">here</A>.Evershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13981549398092045876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1147444338732449082006-05-12T07:32:00.000-07:002006-05-12T07:32:00.000-07:00To be clear: The ad copy and pictures on the indiv...To be clear: The ad copy and pictures on the individual Pyrogear® products are supplied and written by CafePress, the company that makes all the Pyrogear®. We disclaim all specific product descriptions. We apologize for any confusion about this.<BR/><BR/>You can be sure that if Frank Turk had written the copy himself, the label "sexy" would be applied to the Trucker Hat, not the boxers.Phil Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1147442991688756022006-05-12T07:09:00.000-07:002006-05-12T07:09:00.000-07:00King Kong Boxer comment: cute.Seriously,Descriptio...King Kong Boxer comment: cute.<BR/><BR/>Seriously,<BR/>Description of Pyro Men's Boxers: Enjoy the roomy comfort of our sexy boxers as underwear or sleepwear. <BR/><BR/>Descriptions of Pyro Women's Cami:<BR/>Comfort and style come together with our sexy cami. The thin fabric is a great way to beat the summer heat or for winter layering without looking bulky. Pair it with our thong as an easy, breezy summer sleep set.<BR/><BR/><BR/>If you don't see a difference, talk to your wife.Michellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12978614148747902881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1147442698537666682006-05-12T07:04:00.000-07:002006-05-12T07:04:00.000-07:00Jeff:Thanks for your reply. I think I know what y...Jeff:<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your reply. I think I know what you are saying. I think the "side saddle" thing is a great idea for a cellist. I've never seen one play that way before.<BR/><BR/>What I do wonder is who decides what is distinctive for dress in a given society. Clearly, that which distinguishes women in our society differs from those in other cultures such as Middle Eastern ones. In other societies, facial hair is a distinctive for men to differentiate between age and privilege.<BR/><BR/>At one time, men didn't wear the kind of apparel they did now. Who decides what makes apparel male or female?Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02288648996304246570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1147441089719396482006-05-12T06:38:00.000-07:002006-05-12T06:38:00.000-07:00I noticed the men's boxers with the cool logo too....I noticed the men's boxers with the cool logo too. What must Frank be thinking? I mean, I <B><I>have</B></I> to wear them so that the logo can be seen, right? Isn't that the point?<BR/><BR/>Come to think of it, I'm going to have a talk with my 3-year-old about his King Kong undies.Momohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292177473341691525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1147440802728172392006-05-12T06:33:00.000-07:002006-05-12T06:33:00.000-07:00Kim,I'll tackle the pants issue, although I may no...Kim,<BR/><BR/>I'll tackle the pants issue, although I may not have time to answer all the comments it may generate.<BR/><BR/>1. There are two biblical principles related to Christian dress: modesty and distinction.<BR/><BR/>2. Distinction (Deut. 22:5) is mostly determined by the culture. Now if a culture is in rebellion against God, then the cultural norm is to be rejected.<BR/><BR/>3. Even in our godless culture, we still differentiate between the sexes by showing men in pants and dresses on women (think restroom signage here).<BR/><BR/>4. So, while pants may not show as much skin as <B>some</B> dresses will, in my understanding, they are men's apparel and should be avoided by women.<BR/><BR/>5. A thoughtful cellist can be just as modest in a dress/skirt as in pants and also be distinctively female.<BR/><BR/>6. BTW, the cellist in my church orchestra plays "side saddle" if you will, and does just fine. That was her own idea and it works well.<BR/><BR/>Blessings,Jeff Voegtlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16718288010688756299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1147439984581456002006-05-12T06:19:00.000-07:002006-05-12T06:19:00.000-07:00Darlene - I loved the PSA! lol...:o)Darlene - I loved the PSA! lol...<BR/><BR/>:o)Carla Rolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09395062089776262435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1147439331564923792006-05-12T06:08:00.000-07:002006-05-12T06:08:00.000-07:00But wearing casual, even sloppy outfits to meet a ...<I>But wearing casual, even sloppy outfits to meet a dignitary is insulting to him and embarrassing to you. And who more "dignified" than the Lord Himself?</I><BR/><BR/>Do you dress up to do your devotional time in the morning? How about when you pray without ceasing? When you do evening devotionals with your kids; do you dress up then? <BR/><BR/>This is the problem with this part of the discussion for me: Sunday morning is not the only time we "meet with God." We have the ability to approach the throne room of grace at any time - truly one of the most unfathomable opportunities in the Christian life. <BR/><BR/>I appreciate the sentiment behind what you're saying - I really do. I wish people in our churches were a lot more serious about the way that they approach God on a regular basis. But formality of dress is <I>way</I> down on my list of things I'm ready to throw stones at.Chris Freelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02959685692971056289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1147434023332355892006-05-12T04:40:00.000-07:002006-05-12T04:40:00.000-07:00Nancy -- thanks for getting us back to the galaxy ...<B>Nancy</B> -- thanks for getting us back to the galaxy of the topic. (c;<BR/><BR/><I>Have you considered this? Given that many of the women dressing as you described are married, then I ask who are they impressing? I contend that rather than trying to inflame the passions of other men, who are not their husbands, they are actually engaged in a "hottie" contest.</I><BR/><BR/>No, honestly, I never did. I appreciate your bringing it up. I <I>have</I> honestly wondered, with regard to husbands, "Oh, golly -- you let your wife dress like that? You didn't say, 'Honey, I love that, I love seeing you look like that, but -- whoa! Those poor guys who aren't me!'?"<BR/><BR/>So it could be a failure of guys not giving their wives guy-input -- and of them not assuring their wives of their love and exclusive devotion?<BR/><BR/>That's ponderable. Thanks.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1147432715998144812006-05-12T04:18:00.000-07:002006-05-12T04:18:00.000-07:00Lisa,I agree with you 100% about the different "ta...Lisa,<BR/><BR/>I agree with you 100% about the different "takes" on what constitutes modesty.<BR/><BR/>Here's a question for anyone who wants to tackle it. What about pants? Frankly, at times, I find pants more modest than dresses, yet in my church, if I get up to sing (and even to play the organ on a Sunday morning) I have to wear a dress. What would a cellist do if she was asked to accompany someone. It's much more modest for a cellist to wear pants than a long skirt.Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02288648996304246570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1147414256735286242006-05-11T23:10:00.000-07:002006-05-11T23:10:00.000-07:00You're absolutely right, Dan! A few years ago I w...You're absolutely right, Dan! A few years ago I wrote to one of the pastors at the church we attend about the immodest clothing worn by some of the young women, in fact. My sister, who attended there at the time, had invited someone to visit and was embarrassed when later she was told they appreciated the invitation, but were put off by the way so many of the young people dressed.<BR/><BR/>My letter was forwarded to one of the elders, who acknowledged that when visiting the high school youth group he felt compelled to stare up at the ceiling so as to not stare at the scantily dressed girls.<BR/><BR/>I don't recall any big deal being made, but have noticed over the following years the situation appears to have improved some. Presumably somebody began to address this with the youngsters.<BR/><BR/>Excellent post, as I said. Booyah, indeed. ;^)Gryphonettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16927200065426388315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1147412170995707402006-05-11T22:36:00.000-07:002006-05-11T22:36:00.000-07:00Amen, even so, on the humility dress code. That's...Amen, even so, on the humility dress code. That's the only dress code I want at the church I pastor as well.<BR/><BR/>That said, I wish some of the girls would wear some more clothes. So I like this post.<BR/><BR/>But that said, I'd rather have a church full of porn addicts than a church full of legalists, so some of these comments make me real uncomfortable. Lust kills, but not as efficiently as legalism.isaiah543https://www.blogger.com/profile/07677722035176971126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1147410462108991452006-05-11T22:07:00.000-07:002006-05-11T22:07:00.000-07:00Bravo - well said and needed today... BUT ...Have ...Bravo - well said and needed today... BUT ...<BR/><BR/>Have you considered this? Given that many of the women dressing as you described are married, then I ask who are they impressing? I contend that rather than trying to inflame the passions of other men, who are not their husbands, they are actually engaged in a "hottie" contest. Just like having a bad case of "house envy," women who are now beyond the stage of child bearing want to proclaim that they still have that hot bod that they had back in the highschool days.<BR/><BR/>What do you all think about that?<BR/><BR/>It does not negate the sin, but it might help the gents better understand the phonomena.nancyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02195858517405623656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1147409978783617982006-05-11T21:59:00.000-07:002006-05-11T21:59:00.000-07:00Also, please seehttp://www.brfwitness.org/Articles...Also, please see<BR/><BR/>http://www.brfwitness.org/Articles/1971v6n4.htmC.A.M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13485811447355032235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1147409702177438742006-05-11T21:55:00.000-07:002006-05-11T21:55:00.000-07:00I believe the local congregation has the right to ...I believe the local congregation has the right to set rules for its members to abide by, just as a family has rules, and a government has rules, that aren't necessarily found in Scripture. Those rules are honest applications of Scriptural principles--whether it be 8:30 pm bedtime, a 60 mph speed limit, or using the church kitchen or a dress code for church. And if someone doesn't like the modesty rules of the church, then there are other places which may not be as careful as these. I know when I preach on modest standards of dress, it is the women who thank me.<BR/><BR/>I think a lot of this discussion boils down to the rank individualism of the American culture, contrasted to the community-nature of the church.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for raising the issue.C.A.M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13485811447355032235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1147407544984717062006-05-11T21:19:00.000-07:002006-05-11T21:19:00.000-07:00These verse come to mind:Gen 35:1 And God said un...These verse come to mind:<BR/><BR/>Gen 35:1 And God said unto Jacob, Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there: and make there an altar unto God, that appeared unto thee when thou fleddest from the face of Esau thy brother. <BR/>Gen 35:2 Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that were with him, Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments: <BR/>Gen 35:3 And let us arise, and go up to Bethel; and I will make there an altar unto God, who answered me in the day of my distress, and was with me in the way which I went.reglerjoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15850185571444567195noreply@blogger.com