tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post115695608958116812..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Wednesday is apparently my dayPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1157118389544234262006-09-01T06:46:00.000-07:002006-09-01T06:46:00.000-07:00Carla said "I hope this helps." Definately- thanks...Carla said "I hope this helps." Definately- thanks. Sorry for jumping to conclusions.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00781523237313565560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1157029117657201402006-08-31T05:58:00.000-07:002006-08-31T05:58:00.000-07:00c.h.h. said "Carla- of course I agree with you in ...c.h.h. said <I>"Carla- of course I agree with you in principle, but "the Bible" strikes me as a bit of a non-answer to the honest inquiry that was made."</I><BR/><BR/>c.h.h (and Benjamin),<BR/><BR/>I apologize if it appears my response was a non-answer. I was actually quite serious, but should have taken the time to elaborate.<BR/><BR/>First, c.h.h. - you recommended the DA Carson book and say it's the "definitive" source. I have to tell you that I (and many others) would respectfully disagree with you on that one.<BR/><BR/>While the book is (from all who have read it) very good, it's actually not as comprehensive as it could be. From what I understand, this book is comprised from DA Carson's <A HREF="http://resources.christianity.com/series/cm/1779.aspx" REL="nofollow">Staley Lectures</A> which were very good, but only focused on certain elements & leaders within the ECM. (I have not read his book, but I did listen to the lectures as soon as they became available, and do highly recommend them).<BR/><BR/>This is part of the problem that many have with understanding the ECM. There are no "experts", but there are plenty of people trying to understand it and explain it. In the last 2 years I've spent reading, listening & researching, I have to say that Phil's address that he gave at the Shepherd's Conference this past spring was probably <B>the most</B> comprehensive, fair and accurate presentation of the ECM in a general sense (which is not easy to do, I assure you). You can <A HREF="http://emergentno.blogspot.com/2006/03/phil-johnson-critical-look-at-emerging.html" REL="nofollow"> read it here</A> or listen to it <A HREF="https://www.gracechurch.org/sc/mp3dl1.asp" REL="nofollow"> here</A> (it's title is Absolutely Not!) <BR/><BR/>Also, Justin Taylor has a pretty thorough piece on this <A HREF="http://9marks.org/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID314526%7CCHID598014%7CCIID2249226,00.html" REL="nofollow"> right here</A>.<BR/><BR/>But here's the thing...<BR/><BR/>It is a given, that no matter who you listen to or who you read, that many of the ECM proponents are going to cry foul and respond with "but that's not me/my church/how we do things!". In many cases, that will actually be true, due to the fact that there are several "streams" all coming from the general banner of "ECM". (This is why it's actually better to take in a wide variety of sources to understand it, rather than look for a 1 shot summary from one person). It is also important to understand that emergen<B>t</B> and emerg<B>ing</B> are terms consistantly interchanged, but at the same time, two very different things. There are many that consider themselves part of the emerging church movement or conversation, that have made a serious move away from the Emergent organization. See how complicated this can get?<BR/><BR/>For this reason also, my recommendation "the Bible". How can you possibly know what any of these men are saying is truth according to Scripture, if you don't know the Scripture for yourself? This is <B>not</B> to say that any of these learned men critiquing the ECM are running around saying unBiblical things, but the bottom line for a believer is to (should be anyway) make the Bible the final authority on these things (fads, trends, movements, etc.). Likewise, how can you know if what the folks in the ECM are saying is true or not, if you're basing your understanding on the words of men, rather than the timeless truths of Scripture?<BR/><BR/>By all means, do read Phil's seminar transcript from the Shepherd's Conference. Read Justin Taylor, DA Carson, David Wells - and get a copy of Ray Yungen's book (second edition) of <I>A Time of Departing</I>. Read the blogs, read the ECM sites too.<BR/><BR/>When you read all those however, make sure you're basing your understanding of what is truth and what is error, on what the Bible actually says about the issues that you'll read about (the atonement, hell, assurance of truth, holy living, ecumenism, humility, the pastoral calling, etc.).<BR/><BR/>I hope this helps, and I apologize for the small novel.<BR/><BR/>SDG,<BR/>CarlaCarla Rolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09395062089776262435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1157021477902197122006-08-31T03:51:00.000-07:002006-08-31T03:51:00.000-07:00So, is this 'unity', then?So, is this 'unity', then?Kayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14873728356115837593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1157020239238385082006-08-31T03:30:00.000-07:002006-08-31T03:30:00.000-07:00Raja:"anti-intellectualism", as it relates to theo...Raja:<BR/><BR/>"anti-intellectualism", as it relates to theology, would be the rejection of the idea that theology matters in theology. It's the blind idea that yopu can say whatever you want to say about special revelation and get away with it because you're in "the ministry". For example, asking for defintions to clarify one's position would be anathema to the anti-intellectual.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156999997985041892006-08-30T21:53:00.000-07:002006-08-30T21:53:00.000-07:00The EC anti-intellectuals seem to be drawing most ...The EC anti-intellectuals seem to be drawing most of everyone's attention. But I detected that Phil seems to be leveling a double barrel shotgun that is sighted-in on both sides, including the "low-brow fundamentalists." Oh boy, why do I get this feeling that this is gonna' git fun?<BR/><BR/>I have also tried <A HREF="http://deathrowbodine.blogspot.com/2005/05/battling-evangelical-anti.html" REL="nofollow">Battling Evangelical Anti-Intellectualism</A>. I am really looking forward to what Dan has to say to answer the question: <A HREF="http://deathrowbodine.blogspot.com/2005/11/is-christianity-rational.html" REL="nofollow">Is Christianity Rational?</A><BR/><BR/>But if you'uns think either of those topics stir up controversy, you should try discussing the contents of the book by Dr. MacArthur, <A HREF="http://www.gty.org/product.php?productcode=452015" REL="nofollow"><I>Why Government Can't Save You</I></A> with your typical Southern Baptist brothers. Ouch, Ouch, Ouch, I am still smarting from that ill-advised discussion.<BR/><BR/>I always feel like my work ends up seeming clinical and dead. I am anxious to see you guys put some meat on the bones and bring these topics to life.Deathrow Bodinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08051150145317591794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156995136817735162006-08-30T20:32:00.000-07:002006-08-30T20:32:00.000-07:00"wondering what resources you recommend reading, w..."wondering what resources you recommend reading, whether online or in book form, to get a good solid perspective on the Emergents."<BR/><BR/><B>Carla</B>- of course I agree with you in principle, but "the Bible" strikes me as a bit of a non-answer to the honest inquiry that was made.<BR/><BR/><B>Benjamin</B>- Drop everything and go get D.A. Carson's "Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church." So far it's the "definitive" book on the Emerging church from a conservative perspective. It's informative, fair and hard-hitting. Good stuff.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00781523237313565560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156988671925619702006-08-30T18:44:00.000-07:002006-08-30T18:44:00.000-07:00"wondering what resources you recommend reading, w...<I>"wondering what resources you recommend reading, whether online or in book form, to get a good solid perspective on the Emergents."</I><BR/><BR/>The Bible. Novel approach, I know.Carla Rolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09395062089776262435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156988284882909232006-08-30T18:38:00.000-07:002006-08-30T18:38:00.000-07:00It is called "Group Think" and it can be either ve...It is called "Group Think" and it can be either very dangerous or very good.Lindonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12655601618953971431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156985429352752092006-08-30T17:50:00.000-07:002006-08-30T17:50:00.000-07:00Personally I think "Beza is my homeboy" has the mo...Personally I think "Beza is my homeboy" has the most pleasing ring to it. Though I would buy the one mentioned over at Between two Worlds with Calvin ye olde homeboy on it.<BR/><BR/>The posts sound interesting. Looking forward to reading them.Charhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00590850703882621173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156975363834233512006-08-30T15:02:00.000-07:002006-08-30T15:02:00.000-07:00Phil, I have been loosely following the emergent e...Phil, I have been loosely following the emergent emergence and all that has been going on in that realm and was wondering what resources you recommend reading, whether online or in book form, to get a good solid perspective on the Emergents.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156973917069018932006-08-30T14:38:00.000-07:002006-08-30T14:38:00.000-07:00Alright. Who put mensa reject up to be the straig...Alright. Who put mensa reject up to be the straight man? I wanted that job!<BR/><BR/>Oh...and "Candygram for Pyro".Michael Herrmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12439411702298453513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156972535072446762006-08-30T14:15:00.000-07:002006-08-30T14:15:00.000-07:00So, I've always wondered -- what is it that crawls...So, I've always wondered -- what <I>is</I> it that crawls to the surface of a dark Scottish lake?<BR/><BR/>Benny Hinn's toupe?DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156972168261500372006-08-30T14:09:00.000-07:002006-08-30T14:09:00.000-07:00You mentioned "synchronicity" and now you've got m...You mentioned "synchronicity" and now you've got me singing the song by The Police.Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02288648996304246570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156971117575296682006-08-30T13:51:00.000-07:002006-08-30T13:51:00.000-07:00Dan said:No collusion. I tell you, boys, we've got...Dan said:<BR/><B>No collusion. I tell you, boys, we've got this group-mind thing going on!</B><BR/><BR/>And you consider a mind-meld with Frank a <I>good</I> thing?NEBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05832082589817272303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156970785960878342006-08-30T13:46:00.000-07:002006-08-30T13:46:00.000-07:00...all but eliminate meaningful debate and discuss...<I>...all but eliminate meaningful debate and discussion about doctrine and history.</I><BR/><BR/>Attaboy, Phil. Keep it coming.REMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285866237413113428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156970031348196392006-08-30T13:33:00.000-07:002006-08-30T13:33:00.000-07:00Thanks for this post!Thanks for this post!Caleb Kolstadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16430229005942296570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156969939441863932006-08-30T13:32:00.000-07:002006-08-30T13:32:00.000-07:00Has anyone ever noticed how much Mesa Reject looks...Has anyone ever noticed how much Mesa Reject looks like Habitans in Sicco?FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156969359589132492006-08-30T13:22:00.001-07:002006-08-30T13:22:00.001-07:00That's "Hedley"!That's <B><I>"Hedley"</I></B>!Phil Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156969328179079252006-08-30T13:22:00.000-07:002006-08-30T13:22:00.000-07:00Phil, it's always nice to see a quote from Hedy La...Phil, it's always nice to see a quote from Hedy Lamar.Jeremiah Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00383097471023108611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156964365143044392006-08-30T11:59:00.000-07:002006-08-30T11:59:00.000-07:00chuckling.chuckling.candyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06088593538648596769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156963672869060452006-08-30T11:47:00.000-07:002006-08-30T11:47:00.000-07:00I think posting a simple definition of anti-intell...I think posting a simple definition of anti-intellectualism as it relates to doing theology would be fantastic.Sharad Yadavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12150204571738424517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156963619314725862006-08-30T11:46:00.000-07:002006-08-30T11:46:00.000-07:00I'd like to see a "Phil Johnson is my Homeboy" shi...I'd like to see a <BR/>"Phil Johnson is my Homeboy" shirt if you don't mind.Chris Freelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02959685692971056289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1156961012678737612006-08-30T11:03:00.000-07:002006-08-30T11:03:00.000-07:00Ever thought of doing a line in heretics? You cou...Ever thought of doing a line in heretics? You could do a nice range of fleeces with fur underneath.Martin Downeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08019053545918223050noreply@blogger.com