tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post116919359144522007..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Sola Scriptura and the role of teachers in our spiritual growthPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger92125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169542869479748992007-01-23T01:01:00.000-08:002007-01-23T01:01:00.000-08:00I think "donsands" touched on something very funda...I think "donsands" touched on something very fundamental to understanding this whole idea of teachers (be they Calvin, Sproul, etc.)--that God is sovereign over all our learning. I loved what he stated, "I have learned from God's teachers. Did I really need them? God gave them to me, so I guess I did." This is a wonderful grasp of the absolute sovereign hand of God in our lives--and in our teaching.<BR/><BR/>Warmly,<BR/><A HREF="http://homeschoolblogger.com/underthesky" REL="nofollow">Kate</A>Katehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00035122244780616689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169419278211676242007-01-21T14:41:00.000-08:002007-01-21T14:41:00.000-08:00If you read again what I wrote I said let's not "c...If you read again what I wrote I said let's not "co-opt" the metaphor to man. That implies man 'solely.' This is the gravitational pull within fallen man. There are too many 'pastors' spouting too many ridiculous things for such things to be stated with such confidence. Jesus is the Shepherd, the Word of God is the standard, the Holy Spirit is the teacher and the source of discernment. The priesthood of all believers is a responsibility not to be shirked off onto others.UK67https://www.blogger.com/profile/15095910610517995965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169410744185175062007-01-21T12:19:00.000-08:002007-01-21T12:19:00.000-08:00sk, Maybe you should read your bible. 1 Peter 5 cl...sk, Maybe you should read your bible. 1 Peter 5 clearly exhorts the elders to shepherd the flock of God. And maybe you should look at the etymology of the word Pastor. God gives the gift of teaching for the oversight of his sheep. Christ is the Good Shepherd (Which is clearly an OT allusion) nobody is denying that, but there is also another metaphor speaking of the overseers being shepherds.Echindodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17385264316917215046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169359658521760692007-01-20T22:07:00.000-08:002007-01-20T22:07:00.000-08:00Let's just no co-opt the shepherd/flock metaphor i...Let's just no co-opt the shepherd/flock metaphor in the direction of man. Jesus Christ is the Shepherd, His Spirit is the teacher. <BR/><BR/>And we're all called to be prophets, priests, and kings in God's Kingdom.UK67https://www.blogger.com/profile/15095910610517995965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169356692056554002007-01-20T21:18:00.000-08:002007-01-20T21:18:00.000-08:00"To say we can't really know what Scripture means"..."To say we can't really know what Scripture means"<BR/><BR/>I have learned from God's pastor's. I have learned from God's teachers. <BR/><BR/>Did I really need them? God gave them to me, so I guess I did.<BR/><BR/>It's all God, and His grace. One plants the word, and another waters the word, but God gives the increase.<BR/><BR/>Surely pastors are called by His grace to take the sheep into the pasture so that they feed themselves.<BR/>I praise and thank God for all of His pastors and teachers, those whom are His genuine shepherds of the sheep, who feed and tend His people with all humility and integrity, and who give all the glory to God the Father, through Jeus Christ, our Lord. Amen.<BR/><BR/>Luther is one of my favorite teachers. Look forward to meeting him, so we can both worship God, and give Him all the glory due His name. <BR/>There's only One great teacher, and yet He does sovereignly gift teachers within His Church.<BR/><BR/>God bless, and have a great Lord's day.donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169345164430200952007-01-20T18:06:00.000-08:002007-01-20T18:06:00.000-08:00I'm in sympathy with Denise's comment.I'm in sympathy with Denise's comment.UK67https://www.blogger.com/profile/15095910610517995965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169322910031323392007-01-20T11:55:00.000-08:002007-01-20T11:55:00.000-08:00"First, although the claim to by-pass mere human b..."First, although the claim to by-pass mere human books and go right to the Bible itself sounds devout and spiritual it is a veiled egotism."<BR/><BR/>"Furthermore, it is simply not the case that any common, unskilled, unschooled individual, sitting down with his Bible and no other tools, can expect to come to a full and mature understanding of Scripture without any help from godly teachers who understand some things better than he will ever get it on his own."<BR/><BR/>We are to go to Scripture first, not just finally.<BR/><BR/>Sadly, it seems that Scripture and the Holy Spirit isn't enough for most professing Christians and that saddens me. <BR/><BR/>It appears, that the Word is the milk and theologians are the meat.<BR/><BR/>To say we can't know what Scripture really means without going to man is making theologians the meat, dare I say the Magesterium, by which one can really understand the Word.(Please know I'm not trying to be rude or flippant here.)<BR/><BR/>This breaks my heart truly.<BR/><BR/>2Ti 3:15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the <B>sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.</B> <BR/><BR/>2Ti 3:16 <B> All Scripture </B>is breathed out by God and <B>profitabl</B> for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 <B> that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work. </B><BR/><BR/>Psa 119:99 I have more understanding than all my teachers, for your testimonies are my meditation. <BR/><BR/>Man does not give us wisdom nor understanding: only God does through His Word and Holy Spirit.<BR/><BR/>Pro 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding;Denisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14770822482205703050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169318007421211272007-01-20T10:33:00.000-08:002007-01-20T10:33:00.000-08:00There is some danger in this argument on both side...There is some danger in this argument on both sides. The intellectuals on this post have done a good job defending their position with Scripture and logic, and for the most part I agree. I also believe that ignoring solid teaching outside of Scripture is stupid. <BR/><BR/>But the danger is that you leave the impression that the high minded or the educated among us possess a deeper or higher place in the Kingdom. That is just not true.<BR/><BR/>I realize nobody has said that outwardly but the impression is there nonetheless. The Gospel has always been focused on the "simple" invitation we give to the little ones, the least, the widows, the orphans, and Jesus doesn't offer many plaudits to the theologically correct. <BR/><BR/>So if we were forced to choose between agonizing over our correct Calvinistic theology, or agonizing over the "least of these", I feel safer with the latter.<BR/><BR/>The sad part of this post may be that some will theologically and effectively take my argument apart and still never focus on the "least". God forbid.Mike Barretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04462696812553646032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169315109345697632007-01-20T09:45:00.000-08:002007-01-20T09:45:00.000-08:00Interestingly enough Touchstone wasn't responded t...Interestingly enough Touchstone wasn't responded to, so let me be the first. You make a valid point that we are not a tabula rasa, but you have overlooked and/or minimized the role of the scriptures to shape our presuppositions, and the role of the Holy Spirit. But I will still not side with sk and Cindy. We need the study of Backgrounds to better understand the text. Case: what is a ziggurat and how can it affect our understanding of Gen 11. The Bible as it self is sufficient for Salvation and Sanctification but if you want to understand at a deeper level You must have a better understanding of the Historical setting and literary methods and *gasp* an understanding of the original languages.... So yes sk, once we understand Mesopotamian Culture, Egyptian culture, Northwest Semitic Philology, Sumerian Literature, Hittite/Anatolian, Literary composition, fluency in Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic, Greek Culture and literature, the Pseudapigrapha, Roman policy culture and literature, archeology, sociology, Church History, and a fully articulated Systematic theology and dogmatic development in its corresponding philosophical challenges (all of which have contributed to who we are) THEN we should spend a year alone reading nothing but the bible. Until then, let us read until our Eyeballs fall out, testing everything we read with scripture and allowing it to shape or presuppositions.Echindodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17385264316917215046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169308344302589762007-01-20T07:52:00.000-08:002007-01-20T07:52:00.000-08:00A human teacher tries to teach Phil not to trust h...A human teacher tries to teach Phil not to trust human teachers. Simply amazing.<BR/><BR/>How does this person view any ministry past evangelism? Once someone professes faith in Christ, you just hand them a Bible and send them away?<BR/><BR/>This reminds me of some guys I once knew who had such a skewed view of <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20tim%202:12;&version=49;" REL="nofollow">1 Tim 2:12</A> that they tried their best not even to speak to a woman about the Bible out of fear that the woman might teach them something.jigawatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08143042238172973060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169301378546948502007-01-20T05:56:00.000-08:002007-01-20T05:56:00.000-08:00Just think, if we didn't have other teachers to he...Just think, if we didn't have other teachers to help us in our preaching and teaching and spiritual growth many good men might have to ask for an increase in salary. Some broadcasts might not have the income without the ofer of books for an offering. <BR/><BR/>We would not have the writings of the early fathers. This generation of preachers and teachers would not have the joy of reading the great preachers of the past. <BR/><BR/>Think of the next generation of preachers who would not have the writings of John MacArthur, or J.I. Packer, or Chuck Swindoll.<BR/><BR/>Yes, we should know our Bible, and know how to study the text. How are we going to know "how" without a teacher?" We should be grateful for those who make it easier for us.<BR/><BR/>Spiritual growth happens when the Holy Spirit quickens our mind and gives us understanding of what we learned from our study of the Scriptures.<BR/><BR/>Is it possible to have an understanding of the Bible without other teachers? How did we learn to read the Bible? How did we come to know the meaning of words that are in the Bible? <BR/><BR/>There is a struggle for a deeper understanding of God's Word in those of us who earnestly want to live as Christians. We have a desire to be rich in knowledge of the whole armor of God. We desire to know God and He has revealed Himself in His Word. So we must know His Word. This is what matters, to grasp and learn the Word in all its significance and actuality. <BR/><BR/>In order for this to be achieved we need tools which will lay out for us helps of deeper knowledge of the Word. These tools or means where by we learn give us greater ability to know God and His Word. <BR/><BR/>Teachers who can open our minds to the Old and New Testament for us, expecially from the view point of the original text.<BR/><BR/>It is true however, our belief remains absolute and certain: the Holy Spirit is the only true determinant to the Word of God. Nevertheless, the appeal for the Holy Spirit does not exclude earnest and emergetic study.Charles e. Whisnanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08110548370691986584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169300952645770382007-01-20T05:49:00.000-08:002007-01-20T05:49:00.000-08:00I'm sorry, but I have to say this. And I don't me...I'm sorry, but I have to say this. And I don't mean any disrespect whatsoever. That picture of the "enlightened swami?" makes me think of Mr. Blue Raja.Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02288648996304246570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169299410832751952007-01-20T05:23:00.000-08:002007-01-20T05:23:00.000-08:00"Your identity as a "Baptist"; your endless quotat..."Your identity as a "Baptist"; your endless quotations from Charles Spurgeon; your faithful devotion to John MacArthur; and especially your willingness to call yourself a "Calvinist" are all huge red flags that tell me something is seriously wrong with your theology."<BR/><BR/>Funny, the items in the list above were, to me, all huge red flags that told me something is seriously <I>right</I> with your theology. I guess it's a matter of perspective.Andrew Lindseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06543222209236040112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169269769905222842007-01-19T21:09:00.000-08:002007-01-19T21:09:00.000-08:00"Yeah, but it doesn't count unless you actually co..."Yeah, but it doesn't count unless you actually comment on the post." <BR/>- Phil JohnsonUK67https://www.blogger.com/profile/15095910610517995965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169267038217837882007-01-19T20:23:00.000-08:002007-01-19T20:23:00.000-08:00Woohoo -- last comment!Woohoo -- last comment!UncleNuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10588060916727976682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169265744499788762007-01-19T20:02:00.000-08:002007-01-19T20:02:00.000-08:00Matthew from From the Morning said,"Do you think i...Matthew from From the Morning said,<BR/><BR/>"Do you think in all that debate and theology and bickering there is room for a true God relationship?"<BR/><BR/>Who is God? Why don't we all have a relationship with Him? Why do we need one? How do we get it?<BR/><BR/>Don't answer any of these questions, because that would be theology.<BR/><BR/>Also, some people will disagree with you, and then you have debate. Some people who don't like that might even call it bickering.<BR/><BR/>Sorry.<BR/><BR/>ChrisChrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00781523237313565560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169263402855618802007-01-19T19:23:00.000-08:002007-01-19T19:23:00.000-08:00It would seem to me that as I study the Scriptures...It would seem to me that as I study the Scriptures it is possible that I might come to a conclusion that is neither biblical nor orthodox. And, being that in our day it is pretty easy to find someone to support my belief however ridiculously unbiblical, I had better be careful who I choose to support my exegesis.<BR/><BR/>And, if I discover that there is no valid support of my exegesis - then I should reconsider what it is that I have concluded - 'scripture is not open to private interpretation.'<BR/><BR/>The teachers that I choose to consult or quote as I teach or preach should only support or amplify my exegesis.<BR/><BR/>However, the key is that I am studying the Scripture and seeking to understand what the Author intended.Timotheoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16880788118136612744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169258421184751662007-01-19T18:00:00.000-08:002007-01-19T18:00:00.000-08:00Sorry Phil. And Cindy.Can't think of anything else...Sorry Phil. And Cindy.<BR/><BR/>Can't think of anything else to say on the post. Others have covered it for me - the bible relates the importance of teaching, <I>sola scritura</I> directs us to be teachable.Catezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14514176885131945814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169258395510660002007-01-19T17:59:00.000-08:002007-01-19T17:59:00.000-08:00"And may we all be led by the Holy Spirit."Amen to..."And may we all be led by the Holy Spirit."<BR/><BR/>Amen to that.<BR/><BR/>Word and Spirit.UK67https://www.blogger.com/profile/15095910610517995965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169257654934056322007-01-19T17:47:00.000-08:002007-01-19T17:47:00.000-08:00Well Phil, I was beginning to feel that I finally ...Well Phil, I was beginning to feel that I finally had a purpose for my existence.<BR/><BR/>But that's ok. Have a good night everyone. And may we all be led by the Holy Spirit.Cindyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01486865227041429770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169257156083216212007-01-19T17:39:00.000-08:002007-01-19T17:39:00.000-08:00Dave Hunt isn't KJV-only. (I'll stand corrected i...Dave Hunt isn't KJV-only. (I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong on that.)<BR/><BR/>Maybe we can put foward something like an axiom for this subject:<BR/><BR/>Just as regeneration precedes faith, it can probably be stated truthfully that engaging, or coming into contact with, the actual Word of God precedes doctrinal understanding.UK67https://www.blogger.com/profile/15095910610517995965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169256403983022962007-01-19T17:26:00.000-08:002007-01-19T17:26:00.000-08:00Enough.Let's get back on topic. Cindy isn't the to...Enough.<BR/><BR/>Let's get back on topic. Cindy isn't the topic here. Neither is Calvin. Neither is the KJV.<BR/><BR/>And can we move the level of the conversation back about 10 notches up the propriety scale?<BR/><BR/>Thanks.<BR/><BR/>If you don't understand what I mean by "propriety," better not to post any comments at all.Phil Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169255529862263862007-01-19T17:12:00.000-08:002007-01-19T17:12:00.000-08:00Making judgments without knowing peoples hearts th...Making judgments without knowing peoples hearts there I think Cindy. <BR/><BR/>KJV only? Which KJV? it's been changed several times. Do you mean the 1611 version, because that is the original unadulterated KJV. <BR/><BR/>How do you think they went about making changes to it? <BR/><BR/>Were you just "led" to KJV only or were you influenced by the teaching of some-one to take that position?<BR/><BR/>Is <I>sola scriptura</I> only KJV - and if so were all the people prior to it being translated in error for reading a different version?Catezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14514176885131945814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169254263877205972007-01-19T16:51:00.000-08:002007-01-19T16:51:00.000-08:00mark...Oh wow, I should have known that if I side ...mark...<BR/><BR/>Oh wow, I should have known that if I side with an Arminian (Dave Hunt) I would get a spanking!!!!!!<BR/><BR/>I am not Arminian but I am not a 5pt Calvinist either. I mean who cares really whether one is Arminian or Calvinist. Some Cavinist hold to their precious, beloved John Calvin as if he should be venerated. The unholy popes do that. And if you don't agree 100% than you don't belong in our " Calvin group".<BR/><BR/>R.C. Sproul wrote a book, "Willing to Believe"....interesting it was, but I truthfully do not care anymore what John Calvin teaches or semi-pelagius views. The "Calvin Club" is like a secret sect or something. It sounds so ridiculous. Perhaps John Calvin's hemmoroids are gold. Then I suppose you could venerate him.Cindyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01486865227041429770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1169253236155344702007-01-19T16:33:00.000-08:002007-01-19T16:33:00.000-08:00habitans in sicco-My list of favorite links are me...habitans in sicco-<BR/><BR/>My list of favorite links are men and ministries that I trust because the Lord has led me to these ministries and they have been instructive in my growth but they came only after I sought the Lord for guidance. <BR/><BR/>And like I said before to Sharon, I am not opposed to reading commentaries or other books by Godly men and women. I do have a commentary, the only one that is collecting dust, from Jonathan Edwards....."The biblical rational theology of Jonathan Edwards". But I will say this, my Bible does not collect dust.Cindyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01486865227041429770noreply@blogger.com