tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post1723876708621664680..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Strange Fire Conference #3: Joni Eareckson Tada and R. C. SproulPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-6421326376793738622013-11-04T05:31:27.470-08:002013-11-04T05:31:27.470-08:00DiscoStu:
How specific would you like? It seems ...DiscoStu:<br /><br />How specific would you like? It seems to me that Phil Johnson in particular has been more specific before, during and after the conference than the apologists for the Conctinualist/Charismatic camp really can deal with already. Conrad Mbewe's talk was specific, but you have to listen to it to see what he is specific about.<br /><br />Do you mean a sort of Enemies List? What if such a list could be provided and it included guys and dolls who, at the end of the day, pastor enough people to account for only 40% of Charismania?<br /><br />What FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-58052040537910041092013-10-29T19:58:26.931-07:002013-10-29T19:58:26.931-07:00Joni will be a true jewel when we all get to the k...Joni will be a true jewel when we all get to the kingdom. Of course, Jesus our Lord is the One and only Man who receives glory, but she will be a jewel in His crown.<br /><br />I shall be blessed and fortunate just to be there, but, I will be there by His grace alone, through faith alone, becuase he first love me, and I now do love Christ, and trust in Him.<br /><br />Thanks for this great post dan. I attend Joni's church here in Baltimore, where her uncle was a pastro many moons agian. It's a REF Church, and we still have some contact with her.<br /><br />I sent her a letter a while back, and she sent me a short note on a 3X5 card, and signed it; and we know what that means when she signs her name. i am humbled and even feel awkward sharing this, but it shows her heart, and glorifies Jesus.<br /><br />have a great rest of the week. Shalom.donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-31340838521529929292013-10-29T17:51:02.062-07:002013-10-29T17:51:02.062-07:00@DiscoStu
"what SPECIFIC doctrines and peopl...@DiscoStu<br /><br />"what SPECIFIC doctrines and people makes the Charismatic movement harmful."<br /><br />Visit the average Charismatic church, and I almost guarantee you'll have no problem answering this question. Instead of using their gifts to point people toward the Gospel, the focus is on themselves and the gifts themselves. Ironically, yes, Cessationism is an extra-Biblical claim, but the amount of false teaching at your average Charismatic church is colossal. Their numbers are also worrisome. The entire movement needs to be given more much more scrutiny and discussion by sound pastors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-32022312507227201692013-10-29T16:53:29.286-07:002013-10-29T16:53:29.286-07:00Really excellent summary. Thank you.Really excellent summary. Thank you.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-73278114268800850592013-10-29T16:23:21.431-07:002013-10-29T16:23:21.431-07:00Stu,
I am not a pyro nor the son of a pyro, (and ...Stu,<br /><br />I am not a pyro nor the son of a pyro, (and I am only about halfway through the conference audio) but in my opinion the major problems of the charismatic movement being addressed by Strange Fire are:<br /><br />1. An undermining of Sola Scriptura through claims of extra-biblical revelation<br /><br />2. A misrepresentation of God the Holy Spirit through claims of false miracles/activities/healings/etc.<br /><br />3. The slough of prosperity theology <br /><br />4. The danger of the sheer scope of their influence (half a billion charismatics on the planet)<br /><br />5. The lack of any major & cohesive response to charismatic theology by the contemporary church<br /><br />6. The worrisome endorsements that some credible "Reformed charismatics" have given to "false-teaching charismatics" <br /><br />7. The widespread replacement of Gospel preaching for prosperity doctrine in places like Africa<br /><br />I hope this helps clarify the "specificity" issue for you.APMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09981769512480371230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-68551988379096197122013-10-29T09:33:56.423-07:002013-10-29T09:33:56.423-07:00Dan,
I have been a long time reader of Pyromaniac...Dan,<br /><br />I have been a long time reader of Pyromaniacs and I have read extensively about Da Gifts. I sometimes have a disconnect between my brain and the keyboard. I know your position. And I am a cessationist myself. <br /><br />Did the conference address that issue? It seems that R.C Sproul did. I listened to your conference recap that you posted a few days ago. The Christian blogosphere is blowing up over this and I do not know how many people will come here and read your materials. Everything I see online leans to generalities. And I understand the nature of post-conference reviews are more general.<br /><br />As an aside, thank you for moderating the comments. I understand the time you have to put into it. It makes your comment threads worth reading. DiscoStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02784652344347993168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33757213575402654172013-10-29T09:16:05.491-07:002013-10-29T09:16:05.491-07:00What exactly in your story do you suppose contradi...What exactly in your story do you suppose contradicts cessationism?trogdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452996348717802065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-20520916088296962782013-10-29T09:10:41.409-07:002013-10-29T09:10:41.409-07:00I'm looking forward to watching the whole ench...I'm looking forward to watching the whole enchilada when it's available. Your summery is like an appetizer. <br /><br />I have such conflicted feelings about what to do when someone makes a miraculous claim. Last Sunday, a missionary came to my Southern Baptist church asking for support to build a well somewhere in India. In his introduction, the claim was made that his mother was resurrected from the dead. No one even questioned it. Does such a claim invalidate his entire ministry or should it prompt a careful examination? I just don't know. MacArthur said one of the problems with the charismatic movement is the gullibility it fosters. If the "oohs and ahs" I heard last Sunday are any indication, I think he hit the nail on the head.Cathy M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08107932375538192094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-52717057953206327302013-10-29T09:05:40.429-07:002013-10-29T09:05:40.429-07:00@milhistorian- that was my point. Often cessationi...@milhistorian- that was my point. Often cessationists err on the side of claiming that there are no immediate healings, that God heals through medicine etc. Perhaps the label "cessationist" is misleading, but then a clearer distinction needs to be made. Just as pentacostals can't explain Joni, cessationists claim they have never seen a real healing. Maybe so, and I am sorry they have missed that in their lives, but their not seeing it does not mean it does not happen. I would be glad to introduce my dad to anyone if they need "proof" except now in his later years, alzheimer's has taken over. corinthianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04293112967021601728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-86921479662559362642013-10-29T08:54:22.507-07:002013-10-29T08:54:22.507-07:00Stu, please take this as not meant sarcastically, ...Stu, please take this as not meant sarcastically, cuttingly, put-downingly, because it isn't: that is something we've addressed many, many times here (check the tag "Da Gifts"), I've hit it from a hundred angles in my Tweets just over the past couple of months, and John MacArthur just wrote yet another book about it. <br /><br />Also, maybe if you like listening to sermons as you drive, walk, or jog, I just incorporated it <a href="http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1027131220594" rel="nofollow">in last Sunday's sermon</a>.<br /><br />Anything good Charismatics have ever done, they've done because they are Christians — the ones who <i>are</i> Christians.<br /><br />However, everything distinctive about Charismaticism is at best distracting and worthless, and at worst harmful and destructive.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-37875086304726181212013-10-29T08:49:31.213-07:002013-10-29T08:49:31.213-07:00The question I have is what SPECIFIC doctrines and...The question I have is what SPECIFIC doctrines and people makes the Charismatic movement harmful. I understand that this is part of an ongoing series and that later posts might answer this question. From what I see that there is a lot of broad brushing from what I have seen and read in other blogs.<br /><br />I agree that the majority of Charismatic movement is unorthodox but if we broad-brush the minority will be used to disprove our statements.<br /><br />For instance, the term Baptist. There are all different kinds, reformed, Southern, missionary, KJV-only, primitive, free will, etc. I can make a general statement about Baptists and then use one group to disprove it.<br /><br />Again, further posts might shed more light on this but what I have read on other sites and blogs, I am not finding specifics that I can nail down.DiscoStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02784652344347993168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-62449394042066826992013-10-29T08:38:38.726-07:002013-10-29T08:38:38.726-07:00It's funny how you criticize those who promote...It's funny how you criticize those who promote extrabiblical revelation over scripture, claim unverifiable miracles, and demean the work of members of the Trinity, and a Catholic troll shows up to yelp.trogdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452996348717802065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-20376719308508550962013-10-29T07:58:39.492-07:002013-10-29T07:58:39.492-07:00@Oh please: Because, as we all know, a theological...@Oh please: Because, as we all know, a theological system based on thought going all the way back to the 5th century AD and beyond is completely the same thing as something come up with in the 20th century.<br /><br />@Corinthian: The post was about healing on command--that is to say, "the spiritual gift of healing." While people are healed by the power of God,jumping from that to saying that continuationism is true doesn't add up. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-61141610093652586702013-10-29T07:41:59.806-07:002013-10-29T07:41:59.806-07:00I agree with John's comment regarding Joni - &...I agree with John's comment regarding Joni - "I don't know how Charismatics deal with her." Her testimony was very near to my heart, as I considered how my wife suffers with her own illnesses, and I loved her honesty as she described the conversations she's had with her husband - especially the "splashovers of Hell" part. <br /><br />Webster Hunt (Parts Man)https://www.blogger.com/profile/04631846083790242392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-84692098720848050622013-10-29T07:33:00.286-07:002013-10-29T07:33:00.286-07:00My dad was in a bad accident in 1980 that left him...My dad was in a bad accident in 1980 that left him in an almost vegetative state. Folks from my church came and prayed for him and the healing on his mind was almost instantaneous. A year later, he was back at work, three years later, back at the Pentagon working as a systems analyst. He was healed. Period. So much so that his agnostic neurosurgeon gave his life to Christ because of the healing which was "impossible". My mom had MS, suffered through many "faith healers" who derided her lack of faith as the reason for her illness. God healed her at her death. So God healed one, and not the other, all to His glory. Joni was one of my mom's heroes that helped her rejoice from her wheelchair,in spite of her affliction. But, lack of healing for one does not negate the possibility of healing in another. I am not charismatic or pentacostal, but I have witnessed real healings, like tumors that disappear overnight and even a miscarried child that suddenly comes back to life. You don't have to be so either or. As Mac said, healings were rare, but they happened. I believe the same is true now.I have witnessed it. corinthianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04293112967021601728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-36235495732742825172013-10-29T06:18:45.693-07:002013-10-29T06:18:45.693-07:00"a new, healthy body is not what she is most ..."a new, healthy body is not what she is most looking forward to about resurrection life."<br />"She noted that Jesus was never "about" healing; alluding to Mark 1, she noted that when healings threatened to take focus away from His preaching, He would move on."<br /><br />This is brilliant and so true. My pastor has frequently criticized the Charismatic movement of taking the focus of God and replacing it with the focus on their spiritual powers. If you heal someone's eye and they still go to hell, what profit have they earned? As Jesus said, better enter heaven without a body part than have the entire body go to hell. If one of my pastor's sermons, he had us watch some videos of people speaking in tongues and other spiritual gifts on Youtube the Saturday before. And his point was that these Youtube videos were probably very close to what a Corinthian church ceremony might have looked like, minus the modern clothing, building and technology. They had gifts, but they had not love nor the Gospel. In short, they had nothing. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-74281041904692615252013-10-29T05:56:52.547-07:002013-10-29T05:56:52.547-07:00OSH and buds hate this post.OSH and buds hate this post.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-19270069358280881072013-10-29T05:51:47.728-07:002013-10-29T05:51:47.728-07:00Did you seriously just say 20th century invention?...Did you seriously just say 20th century invention? Your precious Calvinist religion is a recent invention, talking about calling the kettle black.<br />Charismania is a natural progression of your guys original groups, whine and complain all you want about it. Its your fault they are here, put on your big boy pants and live with it.<br /><br />Keep reforming blogger nerds....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-21105932226548055492013-10-29T05:38:55.101-07:002013-10-29T05:38:55.101-07:00Fantastic stuff, Dan. MacArthur seems to have a mu...Fantastic stuff, Dan. MacArthur seems to have a much livelier sense of humor than I'd imagined.<br /><br />And "splashovers from Heaven happen when we find Jesus in the midst of splashovers from Hell" is something I'll be thinking on for a long, long time.<br /><br />Thanks for this!LanternBrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14727003028902907286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-67840384646360402472013-10-29T04:21:44.641-07:002013-10-29T04:21:44.641-07:00I found Joni tremendously helpful, as I always do....I found Joni tremendously helpful, as I always do. She helped me lay down some stuff about my own healing and blessed me greatly with her Christ-centred-ness.Kayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14873728356115837593noreply@blogger.com