tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post2021089371396336361..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Open Letter to Mark DriscollPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger175125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-60820958488489413842011-08-06T04:30:59.268-07:002011-08-06T04:30:59.268-07:00We'll call 175 comments a good run for this le...We'll call 175 comments a good run for this letter, and offer to take up any issues not sufficiently covered here via e-mail at:<br /><br />frank @ iturk dot comFX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-30093372220596823532011-08-06T01:24:45.490-07:002011-08-06T01:24:45.490-07:00Hello Jamie & Boerseuntjie
Firstly let me say ...Hello Jamie & Boerseuntjie<br />Firstly let me say that my intention never carried with it any guile or contention and the simple reason behind my point was this; “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.” (2Timothy 3:16)<br /><br />Nothing more or anything less was intended, if therefore thought has been given to what was penned by Paul to Timothy and one is clear in the matter, then we have peace with God. It is up to the individual to examine his own heart. <br /><br />Blessing in Christ<br /><br />TyroneTyronehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17970123049581654914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-78828764680615031042011-08-05T18:37:55.870-07:002011-08-05T18:37:55.870-07:00@ brother Jamie,
Thank you. My apologies if I mis...@ brother Jamie,<br /><br />Thank you. My apologies if I misunderstood your intent or seem to have desired to misunderstand what you said (English is my second language by nativity).<br /><br />I see what you are saying; but still I do not think that any text of Scripture is of any necessity in a relationship of: EITHER OR.<br /><br />I have found that many of us committed discerners of the Word have made huge mistakes by using the: EITHER OR rule.<br /><br />In your example for instance it is quite plausabile that the Spirit can move and incline the heart of a man so that he/she is most willing; yet that this willingness is also subject to Sovereignty in our LORD and in him/herself at the same instance. <br /><br />This does not necessarily mean to say that man has no free will or capacity to exercsie his/her responsibilty; nor that the LORD has to be concerned that He acts in accordance with the sinful will of mankind (Just reflecting on Romans 7 in my daily reading).<br /><br />I personally can see that BOTH these things can be true in this instance:<br />God is Sovereign and has laid His decree down before the foundation of the world; <br />and <br />the man/woman most freely (As the free gift of grace enables), yet not under any subversion, willingly subjects themself to do His will, as has always been the requirement of God.<br /><br />I think it somehow connects with the prayer of Augustine of Hippo, which opened up the Pelagian and Semi-Pelagian herecy that is still prevalent today.<br /><br />"Da quod iubes, et iube quod vis. Imperas novis continentiam."<br /><br />"GIVE what you COMMAND, and command what you will. You impose CONTINGENCY on US."<br /><br />We are commanded and given responsibility to obey (With only our love of sin standing in our way - which enslaves us most willingly).<br />Then if He sees fit, He looks upon the heart and He in eternity past sets His love on the ingodly to Redeem, Adopt and Deliver those whom He has loved ~ for no reasons we know of; except He wills to show forth His lovingkindness and mercy and those whom are His people will to love Him and seek Him with all their heart (A condition for salvation no less, that is to have a seeking heart in truth and love and fear).<br /><br />So in my unlearned state I find that both the will of man is free (In so much that it is only bound to sin); and yet God remains perfectly Sovereign (Again a bit Romans 1-8 like, with emphasis on 7).<br /><br />I think it a bit like the doctrine of the Incarnation: Do we fully comprehend how Messiah JESUS was fully Man and has the Fullness of the Godhead dweling in Him Bodily? <br />OK we can understand theologically; but I mean can we fully grasp that reality with our minds? If I where to lay subjection of Scripture down as a rule for all interpretation I would struggle immensely and give place for serious doubts about essential Doctrines which relate to Salvation. <br />SO I find these things can be equally true when they seem contradictory; yet they are complementary, not contrary at all.<br /><br />Yet, I do understand by way of your explanation that at times the principles in terms of the Greater lording the Lesser is a real and true and tangable principle; but it is a very dangerous tool which too often is abused.<br /><br />I now do see where you are coming from and appreciate you taking the time to explain more fully what you meant.<br /><br />I relent and am most grateful for your kindness.<br /><br />My apologies for my misguided answer that supposed that you where on another more common wavelength regarding subjection of Scripture.<br /><br />Yours in the service of our King,<br />WBoerseuntjiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12823588390354919031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-15439542213432539642011-08-05T18:07:31.532-07:002011-08-05T18:07:31.532-07:00@Boerseuntjie
I apologize that I did not address m...@Boerseuntjie<br />I apologize that I did not address my reply and that you rightly presumed it was a response to yours. However, and the reason I deleted the first one is that it was missing too, it was directed at Tyrone. But I am not sure that anything in your reply to him was presented in a bad "tone." So again my apologies.<br /><br />Now, except for the opening sentence (and only half of that), your reply is a straw man built of things I did not say nor imply. Yet to say that some Scriptures are subordinate to others is logical and in keeping within the norm of the interpretation of texts and verbal communication. For example when Scriptures teach that both God has a will and that man has a will, whose is subordinate? Man’s to God or God’s to man? Of course it’s man’s to God’s. And of those passages which teach this, which is subordinate? Again and of course those that teach that man has a will is in subjection to the greater i.e. those which teach us of God’s will.<br /><br />Certainly there are even further distinctions to be made on both, but it hope you see my point. This is why I stated that CONTEXT IS KING and why Tyrone’s rebuke of Frank was…the tone police showing up; since the context of his post did not apply to what was being written by Frank.<br /><br />Further, the Scriptures are filled with varying writing forms and styles to include historical, poetic, narrative and parable. And these may, and often do, employ many types of communication from irony and sarcasm to biting straight forward rebuke, and to not recognize this will make for a bad hermeneutic which will lead to serious error. One certainly would not (or shouldn’t) interpret Proverbs with the same approach as one would the Sermon on the Mount.<br /><br />So again, my apologies for not addressing my post.Jamiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08634946645983836412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-9024525512827737382011-08-05T14:19:05.322-07:002011-08-05T14:19:05.322-07:00According to my completely subjective interpretati...According to my completely subjective interpretation, this open letter passes the sniff test administered by the tone police (Congratulations!). I think this opens up dialogue in a healthy way, especially considering the strong words of Driscoll that could make many a blogger "go off" and soil their own hands. <br /><br />I have been encouraged and edified by the comment exchanges Turk has had with David Houston and Real Estate Marketer?! I think those two bring up valid points, one historical one theological, that show the sometimes gray area that shouldn't evoke name calling like "atheist" on side, or "charismaniac" on the other.<br /><br />I lean towards Driscoll's view on DaGifts, but this is one of your better open letters (and succeeding comments exchange) I have read thus far!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-92089808697473744112011-08-05T12:56:38.908-07:002011-08-05T12:56:38.908-07:00@ Jamie,
Just for clarification: Where in Scriptu...@ Jamie,<br /><br />Just for clarification: Where in Scripture are we taught that Scripture is not equal throughout or that one Verse has REPLACED any other Scripture; just so that I should go get my Sciccors or Black Maker pen to decide where God has changed His view or lied or missed the mark on something?<br /><br />I see the FULFILLMENT of Prophecies in the Person and Work of Messiah YESHUA; but never once can I recall at any rate; did He say disregard what the Spirit spoke by the Law or the Prophets - indeed He rectified the abhorrant mistranslations and human traditions which contravened the Law and the Prophets...which where prevalent in the heretical relisgios system which was prevalent in Israel. Hence they did not like Him much at the Council of the Sanhederin.<br /><br />He also set the bar far Higher than PHARISEES conserning the Law and Prophets. Do you know how outwardly pure Pharisees where and are? They are so scrupulous about Legalism that they even invented the Talmudic laws; get this: Because they THOUGHT that they could indeed be Perfect in the Devine Law; therefore they required of themselves something a bot more extra on top - seen as in their OWN SELF-righteousness they could allegedly be "perfect" in the Devine Law.<br /><br />So when Messiah corrected their views of the Law he made clear that the Law was Perfect and Good (See the Book of Romans - unless that is superseded by something else).<br /><br />I mean who gets to say "THUS sayeth" [NOT] "YAHWEH"? And why should I believe him/her/it about the Word given by the Spirit Himself by the mouths of attested Prophets and Apostles?<br /><br />So what you might say. Well your argument seems to be born from personal preference and cultural lack of understanding of the Hebrew culture. That is a serious error in Hermaneutics, which may lead to serious abuses of the Holy Scriptures.<br /><br />Flippant? Hmmm?<br /><br />As for sounding scholarly, I am not an educated man and have no care to sound scholarly or foolish. I care very little to regard the person of a man; because I know that man is born to futility and the scholar and the fool has this in common: they both perish alike.<br /><br />I hope that you will see that I am not arguing a point; I am setting down a standard which is held in Scripture and whcih seeks to live out in the fear and reverance of the LORD God of Heaven and Earth.<br /><br />Wishing you God speed as you seek to defend Messiah the Word of God,<br />WBoerseuntjiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12823588390354919031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-20634916252521631352011-08-05T12:32:41.318-07:002011-08-05T12:32:41.318-07:00I actually thought of three replies to your post. ...I actually thought of three replies to your post. <br /><br />"Wow the tone police showed up a little late" – but I disregarded this as it seemed to flippant.<br /><br />Then I thought:<br /><br />"Look although all Scripture is God breathed, all Scripture’s are not equal to one another. I mean some Scriptures are actually subordinate to others. And in all cases CONTEXT IS KING!" - which I liked very much and sounds very scholarly.<br /><br />But then I went back to flippant.<br /><br />"Come out from behind the viewfinder and expand your biblical world view a little."Jamiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08634946645983836412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-47836013299318374892011-08-05T12:30:13.910-07:002011-08-05T12:30:13.910-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Jamiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08634946645983836412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-60156870299079856242011-08-05T11:55:21.068-07:002011-08-05T11:55:21.068-07:00@ Tyrone,
Sorry I don't get it. So the injuct...@ Tyrone,<br /><br />Sorry I don't get it. So the injuctions to put out PUBLICLY heretics and thos playing with herecy is what? Just an optional?<br /><br />Me thinks the Elders(Pastors~Overseers) actually have a duty to "out" those playing with hercies...<br />Is this not what the Prophets where doing daily? <br /><br />Establishing the Holy Hebrew Scriptures and calling out PUBLICLY those whom went to the Holy Altar at The Temple in Jerusalem and then set up the Ashtoreths etc. and sacrificed to the host of heaven there?<br /><br />Am I not correct in recalling in Hebrews that they where MURDERED for doing this very thing, just like the Prophet John the Baptizer? Oh and Stephen and well every single martyr of the Lord Jesus Christ?<br /><br />Or was that a "gift" only whilst the Scriptures where BEING established; do the Scriptures not still require still the same respect ~ even as the Name of YAHWEH?<br /><br />I know which side I would rather error on: That of caution ~ in the Holy Scriptures Alone. If I err there I am in safe Hands. <br />If I where to err outside of the Holy Scriptures; I have no assurance of Devine safekeeping; because I may even be sinning against Heaven.<br /><br />So to take one verse out of the Full Context of the Whole Complete Revelation Scripture is exactely the sort of errors that Mr. DRISCOLL is guilty of. <br /><br />Be sure that No Scripture CONTRADICTS Scripture, but they complement each other throughout in all it's various parts.<br /><br />Your fellow Doulos, according with the free gift of the FULLNESS of the Spirit of Christ our Lord,<br />WBoerseuntjiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12823588390354919031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-18415008104698832632011-08-04T21:57:15.229-07:002011-08-04T21:57:15.229-07:00Hello Frank, let me then be more specicic on the t...Hello Frank, let me then be more specicic on the topic at hand and here is the warning; we all sometimes forget to heed the full counsel of God as we all get caught up with ourselves and I am not for one minute suggesting that I am excused from this equation. We must, as you do, stand for truth with all our mights, but sometimes we lose sight of how this should be done; so I will let scripture speak for itself; "Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will." (2Timothy 2:23-26)<br /><br />Peace and blessings<br /><br />TyroneTyronehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17970123049581654914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-10012716194157070452011-08-04T19:57:44.054-07:002011-08-04T19:57:44.054-07:00Well it seems that now would be a good time for a ...Well it seems that now would be a good time for a new edition of "Charismatic Chaos" to be released, possibly with a new chapter covering the writings of the early church fathers...that would be fun.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16102180041480052576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33315393740967017262011-08-04T17:28:01.523-07:002011-08-04T17:28:01.523-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Boerseuntjiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12823588390354919031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-16145609150081885602011-08-04T17:25:25.262-07:002011-08-04T17:25:25.262-07:00Ermmm... PASTOR Mark? Hmmm...
Nice title can I buy...Ermmm... PASTOR Mark? Hmmm...<br />Nice title can I buy one like it? Or shall I just wait for a little voice from upstairs?<br /><br />So someone whom loves evil speech, sexual immorality (In speech at least), causing divisions, has a contentious spirit; promotes things like "Devil's Advocate" to be some useful Entertainment for the sainst, lives like Kurt Cobain is is "our" homeboy and wants VEHEMENTLY to deny SOLA Scriptura is qualified of the Spirit of the God whom the Spirit calls The Consuming Fire?<br /><br />Oh yeah! That same Spirit also is the Very One Whom gave us the Scriptures which if we read them; it is plain is sufficient.<br /><br />Just one thing: Did the "audabile" voice also tell you that you ought to disregard the fruit of the Spirit (At least in Reformed circles)?<br /><br />My issue is that we often expect EXTREMISTS to be rejected, denounced and put away in other religious groups; but here in the Contemporary "Reformed Camp" we are too pleased to put up with Canaanite Elders whom live and project a love of the cultures where from Christ is meant to be REDEEMING and DELIVERING His people... <br /><br />So what are we doing about such men? I might not agree with Pastor MacArthur on some serious issues; but in seperation from these blind leaders of the blind; I am most glad for his stance. Now if only we can find a way to be "Called OUT" or "SEPERATE" from the world whilst remaining amongst them disticnctly as SALT (Yep the rough stuff which is bright and obvious and which BURNS open sorse clean and disinfects the wounds caused by INFECTION)...<br /><br />Where did I read that this is what followers of the most Holy are meant to be like? ANd when did they last use this salt stuff to clean infected and putrifying wounds and infectious diseases?<br /><br />ALAS! SOLA SCRIPTURA...<br /><br />If I where a new believer isolated on an Island with only my Bible.... Welcome to Great Britain.<br /><br />My apologies for being frank (No pun intended). I have had enough of my brethren following after the arms of flesh and denying the Power of on High.<br /><br />Yours by the free undeserved gift of mercy Alone,<br />WBoerseuntjiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12823588390354919031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-56659120823085751472011-08-04T16:48:17.081-07:002011-08-04T16:48:17.081-07:00lol- You just rock Frank!lol- You just rock Frank!Victoriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01112932411051059792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-75928558171693633312011-08-04T15:20:27.427-07:002011-08-04T15:20:27.427-07:00Eric:
I have no comment on the sources of my gree...Eric:<br /><br />I have no comment on the sources of my green cheese.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-48652127928414144112011-08-04T15:19:27.720-07:002011-08-04T15:19:27.720-07:00Mark Rush Saith:
| Let me start off by saying a c...Mark Rush Saith:<br /><br />| Let me start off by saying a couple of <br />| things. First, I rarely reply to any blog <br />| post. This is mainly because I don't <br />| have a lot of time to do so.<br /><br />Well, welcome – I totally get that. I only post once a week here for exactly the same reason. Nice to meet you.<br /><br />| Second, I <br />| am not an avid reader of Pyro. The <br />| second is because of posts like this <br />| one pertaining to Mark Driscoll.<br /><br />Well, let me say this plainly: I doubt that. I doubt that the reason is that we write a lot of posts “like this one”. The reason I say that is because what you mean by “posts like this one” and what this post actually does are so radically different that I doubt sincerely you read the whole post.<br /><br />Does my post say that Mark Driscoll and I agree on anything? If so, what? And if it does, does it use good humor to point that out, or does it sort of begrudge the man his similarity to my point of view?<br /><br />And how does a “post like this” usuall go, I wonder? Let’s find out …<br /><br />| I took <br />| the time to write because often your <br />| articles are attempts at "calling out" <br />| others. I certainly believe you have <br />| the ability to say what you wish, I just <br />| wonder how all this promotes the <br />| cause of Christ in our world.<br /><br />Aha. If I can list three ways in which this promotes the cause of Christ in the world, will you amend your remarks? Well, as you consider it, here are 3 ways this post promotes the cause of Christ:<br /><br />1. It defends actual Christians against slander, therefore promotes right-minded unity rather than narrow and exclusive categories of unity. I think we shouldn’t call people with a wrong-sized pneumatology people without faith. Who’s with me?<br />2. It makes the Gospel the actual point of the discussion. You know: the actual good news of what Jesus has done, and how it is superior to both folk religion and materialism. That is the actual cause of Christ – not merely cheer-leading for our favorite TV stars of the faith.<br />3. It causes people to consider their own faith more seriously. Well, those who read the whole thing, anyway. Those who read the headline and then rant about “posts like this” find another use for their time.<br /><br />| We live in <br />| a world of skeptics who are looking at <br />| the church as a vehicle which <br />| continues to divide and to be honest, <br />| often you prove them to be true. <br /><br />HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!<br /><br />Oh man – THAT’S AWESOME! I split the church with this post!<br /><br />What if I, instead, asked MD <i>not to split the church</i>? What if that’s what this post says? What then?<br /><br />And what if I’m probably best known for sticking my finger in the eye of church-dividers and people who find the local church beneath them? What then?<br /><br />I wonder if there’s a retraction for that due?<br /><br />| We <br />| certainly do not need to drop <br />| doctrinal beliefs nor dumb down <br />| sacred truths that should be held dear, <br />| nor that we remove convictions <br />| related to those truths for the sake of <br />| getting along. I am also not "standing <br />| up" for Mark Driscoll (I have never <br />| even met the man). I am just <br />| wondering, a better phrase may be <br />| that I am biblically trying to process <br />| the continual attacks on fellow <br />| brothers in Christ and how they fit <br />| into the body of Christ and His mission.<br /><br />He lives in Seattle, and I live in Little Rock. His network can’t even plant a church here, so we’re not going to have coffee anytime soon. But let’s face it, Mark Rush: the accusations didn’t start with my post, but with the video Pastor Mark posted.<br /><br />If defending one’s crowd from unfair attacks is “splitting the church”, I’ll be sure to note it further when I write more “posts like this”.<br /><br />Thanks for your time.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-91226234044485914662011-08-04T14:31:34.907-07:002011-08-04T14:31:34.907-07:00@Jugulum said:
I think you're misunderstandin...@Jugulum said:<br /><br /><em>I think you're misunderstanding something. Classic cessationism doesn't even teach that God "chooses not to" work supernaturally today.</em><br /><br />I know what classic cessationists teach, since I grew up as one, and even was trained as one. <br /><br />I know cessationists believe that God can work in "certain qualified" ways, as He wills; and that in fact these ways should not be considered normative contra the charismatic belief that they are normative and in fact signs of baptism of the Holy Spirit and His in-filling presence. <br /><br />But what I am suggesting is that maybe we shouldn't work within this whole framework. That the categories being used have straight-jacketed scripture in a certain way that is not helpful. Azusa street has been given too much cred on either side.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-50354233151704604822011-08-04T14:28:57.681-07:002011-08-04T14:28:57.681-07:00Took the tone police a while to show up....Took the tone police a while to show up.......https://www.blogger.com/profile/03704434991385497608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-47594568020809322652011-08-04T14:24:59.233-07:002011-08-04T14:24:59.233-07:00If you ever read the post, you'll find your ow...If you ever read the post, you'll find your own comment funny.<br /><br />Driscoll calls most Biblically-faithful Christians who ever lived akin to Deists and worldly for affirming the sufficiency of Scripture...<br /><br />...Frank says that's a bad idea...<br /><br />..and you call out — <i>not</i> Driscoll, but — <i>Frank</i>, for saying something.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-3817808401485042152011-08-04T14:20:14.575-07:002011-08-04T14:20:14.575-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Mark Rushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02809321443354632605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-13240849702619921262011-08-04T13:19:24.745-07:002011-08-04T13:19:24.745-07:00Growrag,
Re: Yesterday's 11:25 PM comment
&qu...Growrag,<br /><br />Re: Yesterday's 11:25 PM comment<br />"<i>I realize that a classic cessationist can hold to the possibility that God "can" work supernaturally still (but chooses not to), but my point is a little different.</i>"<br /><br />I think you're misunderstanding something. Classic cessationism doesn't even teach that God "chooses not to" work supernaturally today. <br /><br />It teaches that people aren't given <i>gifts</i> of healing & signs anymore. God still answers <i>prayer</i> for healing, sometimes in obviously supernatural/miraculous ways.<br /><br /><br />But I agree with your desire to reduce an us/them mentality, I'd want to adjust your wording. We should seek to understand where we have common ground. I'm in a mostly charismatic church, and I'm working on some ways to articulate how that can happen--and prayers that charismatics and non-charismatics can both pray, which capture the core concerns of both groups as much as possible.<br /><br />Healing is a good example. In my church, 90% of the charismatics' discussion of healing is about persistently praying for healing, with genuine hope. Not about commanding healing.<br /><br />There's a lot we can do together to pursue the work of God's Spirit in Christ, without being on the same page about da Gifts. Even, to some extent, in areas like prophecy (or what charismatics often mean by prophecy).Jugulumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09932658890162312549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-64034336529676018792011-08-04T11:48:33.111-07:002011-08-04T11:48:33.111-07:00growrag,
I certainly realize the context, but I a...growrag,<br /><br />I certainly realize the context, but I also realize that regeneration is every bit as supernatural a work as healing a withered hand. Continuationists often like to paint themselves as having a higher or less restrictive view of God since they don't "limit" God to working within the natural world. It is a good reminder to consider that the most important and everlastingly significant supernatural work occurs in the hearts of sinners.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345630463450652762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-11025507321355296942011-08-04T11:40:04.304-07:002011-08-04T11:40:04.304-07:00@Eric said:
Isn't the regeneration of the sin...@Eric said:<br /><br /><em>Isn't the regeneration of the sinner's heart a supernatural work that God works every day? I hold that it was miraculous for God to turn my heart of stone into a heart of flesh, and as a cessationist I rejoice that God always will work supernaturally to save those whom He has chosen.</em><br /><br />Yes, no doubt. But the context here is the so called "charismatic" sign gifts and so forth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-21373572830628080732011-08-04T11:34:12.114-07:002011-08-04T11:34:12.114-07:00Jigawatt,
My exhortation to you is to step back f...Jigawatt,<br /><br />My exhortation to you is to step back for a minute - you seem to be missing the forest for the trees. <br /><br />If you purpose in posting that exchange was for purely exhibitionist purposes, then I say you are to be dismissed.<br /><br />If, however, you desired for additional light to be shown on the subject, please heed advice and re-read Frank's response to you. It is well-reasoned. Your continued objection only further reinforces Franks illustration of your selective offense. Hear this: Frank does not really think you are an atheist anymore than he goes to the moon regularly for green cheese. Recognizing that, consider why he might have made that statement and try to learn from his illustration.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345630463450652762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-58536545041106703402011-08-04T10:54:20.653-07:002011-08-04T10:54:20.653-07:00Yeah, I was going to say he's too proud to do ...Yeah, I was going to say he's too proud to do so, but then I got caught holding up the mirror to myself and thinking of my own. Even if he is proud, he's forgiven if he's a brother in Christ. Doesn't excuse what he did either way, though.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13987985549747283669noreply@blogger.com