tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post2778048927390469933..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: How Can I Be Sure?Phil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger84125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-62611455935688148232007-12-27T14:05:00.000-08:002007-12-27T14:05:00.000-08:00My Husband Shared this with me this Morning. It is...My Husband Shared this with me this Morning. It is an excellent excerpt from an 1800's book I found at a garage sale for 25cents. <BR/><BR/> <B>...there are gentlemen alive who imagine that there are no fixed principles to go upon. "Perhaps a few doctrines," said one to me, "may be considered as established. It is, perhaps, ascertained that there is a God; but one ought not to dogmatise upon His personality: a great deal may be said for pantheism." Such men creep into the ministry, but the are generally cunning enough to conceal the breadth of their minds beneath Christian phraseology, thus acting in consistency with their principles, for their fundamental rule is that truth is of no consequence.</B>4givenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604421713579961024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-24534799816985732772007-12-27T13:42:00.000-08:002007-12-27T13:42:00.000-08:00PhilKent was right on, it all gets back to words, ...Phil<BR/><BR/>Kent was right on, it all gets back to words, when we allowed the modern liberal textual critics to change them as they pleased it contributed to the modernist landslide that dumped us into the pit of postmodernism. After all, all postmodernism is doing is creating their own Bible version, one that doesn't say anything definite.<BR/><BR/>Josh,<BR/><BR/>You need to do more research.Lance Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11275043953229783836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-2033182063283962322007-12-26T22:52:00.000-08:002007-12-26T22:52:00.000-08:00Sam Walker-Thanks for the reference. I haven't re...Sam Walker-<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the reference. I haven't read the whole page, but it looks like some heavy thinking went into it. Say, especially you being Cowboy, look over on the new post on my blog and give me your opinion!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02215557199259127287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-57033904984797047772007-12-26T22:49:00.000-08:002007-12-26T22:49:00.000-08:00Phil, a merry rest-of-Christmas to you!I’m sorry f...Phil, a merry rest-of-Christmas to you!<BR/><BR/>I’m sorry for the confusion. The original plan was to comment on the fact that, by the Lord’s grace, you were seeing the Scriptures more clearly and plainly than many.<BR/><BR/>If that post (which was mainly agreeing with you) was too long, maybe a short question would at least be good thought fodder: Does our dogma (primarily) inform our worship, or the worship our dogma?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02215557199259127287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-64617732789294663922007-12-24T08:33:00.000-08:002007-12-24T08:33:00.000-08:00Robert,You may want to read this:thisIt is long, I...Robert,<BR/><BR/>You may want to read this:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://amos3verse8.blogspot.com/search/label/Marriage" REL="nofollow">this</A><BR/><BR/>It is long, I'll warn you. But it was an amazing study.S.J. Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15922550763548455625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-31336633058817033242007-12-23T23:31:00.000-08:002007-12-23T23:31:00.000-08:00Robert:I'm not even going to try to untangle what ...<B>Robert:</B><BR/><BR/>I'm not even going to try to untangle what you just wrote. Let me just point out that this post is dealing with the question of where knowledge comes from, not the <I>ordo salutis.</I> You're confusing those things and thus pushing the thread off topic. If you want to defend Arminianism, please save it for a thread where that's the topic.<BR/><BR/>Leaving the differences between Calvinism and Arminianism aside for a moment, <I>Scripture</I> says God has placed some innate revelation of Himself in the human heart. In the context of Romans 1, Paul is actually describing the reprobate and citing a reason why their condemnation is just. (All Calvinists affirm the truth of Romans 1, BTW. In fact, it's a key passage on human depravity and guilt. The reason our sin's guilt is so egregious is that it involves the deliberate suppression of our innate, God-given knowledge of His eternal power and deity, leaving ALL sinners without excuse.)<BR/><BR/>However, my point (which is not at all about any of the issues where Calvinists and Arminians disagree) is simply that God has given humanity a certain basic knowledge that cannot be explained by recourse to godless epitemological theories. It includes a basic knowledge of God and sense of duty to Him and is the reason we feel guilt in our conscience when we do wrong.<BR/><BR/>The point is neither subtle nor complex. Set aside your eagerness to dive into debates about Calvinism for a minute, and you will see it, I think.Phil Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1985085707846649262007-12-23T13:43:00.000-08:002007-12-23T13:43:00.000-08:00Philip, I can’t claim to be an expert on Calvinism...Philip, I can’t claim to be an expert on Calvinism, though what little I have learned tells me that Calvin’s view of “Total Depravity” has Mankind absolutely bound and <I>blinded</I> under sin*. In fact, when the Calvinist seminary professor Jacob Hermann (Latin, Arminius) “remonstrated” that the Lord does reveal Himself to every heart so that, “whosoever will, may come,” Calvin heir Theodore Beza’s reaction led to the Synod of Dort, which drafted the 'TULIP" in reaction, and sentenced one of A.’s friends to death, another to life in prison, and everybody who believed with him to be driven out of town, to the loss of home, kin, and livelihood. <BR/><BR/>You mention God “sovereignly overruling” our “willful blindness.” When we speak of God as “sovereign,” we have to recognise that that describes His position of power. What we really mean is that He is effectively greater than whatever we are talking about in relation to Him. When we say that God, Who is holy, is love, we are quoting His Word in saying that love is the one quality that truly defines His Nature. We don’t ever read in Scripture that He is (consists of) omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, wisdom, etc., though these all surely describe Him; but, most essentially, God is <I>love!</I><BR/><BR/>Philip, I assume that you are married. I doubt if that lady became your bride because you “sovereignly overruled” her “willful” reservations about you. I think that, inasmuch as you loved her, rather than just lusting momentarily, you wanted above all things for her to love you- freely, from her heart. If you had “sovereignly overruled,” perhaps using a 9mm when you proposed, then your “help meet” would hardly be your friend! Do we presume that God loves us any less, or that He is so insecure about His ability to reveal His love to us that He would have to resort to coercion to find His Son a bride?<BR/><BR/>The holy God<I> is</I> love, and He invites us all to join Him in that love. Love must be free, or be less than love. “Whom the Son sets free, is free indeed!"<BR/><BR/><BR/>*This might be as to say that “Man is (consists totally of) sin,” In this case we would have to say that God love sin. Is sin any more than a spiritual darkness, the lack of righteousness as darkness is a lack of light? And Christ “lighteneth every man that cometh into the world,” so there is hope for all of us!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02215557199259127287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-2475716211836626742007-12-23T07:07:00.000-08:002007-12-23T07:07:00.000-08:00Robert Easter: "A typical Calvinist would make tha...<B>Robert Easter:</B> <I>"A typical Calvinist would make that starting point at the moment of Election, and then from the Bible. Anyone outside the Elect is excluded from any revelation,being 'blinded by their sins.'"</I><BR/><BR/>No, I don't think you understand what Calvinism teaches, or what I've said in this post. My point is that some knowledge of God is implanted in every human heart. In other words, not from "the moment of Election," but from birth.<BR/><BR/>And <I>everyone,</I> elect and otherwise, tries to suppress that knowledge. In the case of the elect, God awakens the heart and sovereignly overrules that willful blindness.Phil Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-38212043249094810312007-12-22T22:59:00.000-08:002007-12-22T22:59:00.000-08:00Phil, the wild thing is that both Calvinists and t...Phil, the wild thing is that both Calvinists and the rest of us agree that the knowledge of God begins with Revelation. A typical Calvinist would make that starting point at the moment of Election, and then from the Bible. Anyone outside the Elect is excluded from any revelation,being "blinded by their sins." What is known today as "Wesleyan" theology sees that General Revelation as illuminated by the Holy Spirit as God's grace "draw(ing) all people" to Christ. Of course, not all <I>will</I> be saved, but all who <I>will</I> will be. God's grace comes to us because of His holy love which essentially defines Him throughout eternity, and that holy love is the one thing that makes the difference in human life: Holiness, without love, is a merciless furnace; love, alone, is cloying promiscuity- equally deadly. Holy love is the basis for creation, for the Incarnation, the Atonement, the Return, really for every work of God. It's what Christmas is all about. Hallelujah, and merry Christmas!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02215557199259127287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-30757495661566924222007-12-22T22:35:00.000-08:002007-12-22T22:35:00.000-08:00Phil: Awesome post brother! Your biblical and doct...Phil: Awesome post brother! Your biblical and doctrinal knowledge is fine-tuned indeed! I'm always impressed when you spot error, especially when certain coyotes try to sneak it into the discussion unawares! <BR/><BR/>Johnny: Yes, you are entirely spot-on correct in your assessment of the EC's strong foothold in pagan, secular academia. While I make no claim to having the theological expertise of Phil or the other members of team pyro here on this blog, my Master's is in English Literature and my Doctorate is in Education (Higher Education Leadership: Philosophy, Theory, and Practice). Sadly, these degrees were pursued and earned when I was in a prodigal state of rebellion against the Lord of creation. In light of all I've discovered about the EC in the last year or so, I've come to discover God's purpose for allowing such an experience: that I might speak with ethos, as one who has been immersed in two very liberal programs, about the direct parallels between the EC and PAGAN academics. One of the many problems with the EC, however, is that most of these postmodern devotees of the movement lack the academic credentials to know where the origins of all their rebellious nonsense comes from (which is a characteristic of the cults is it not?)polycarphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02895290411377638462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-24459299195726017402007-12-22T16:52:00.000-08:002007-12-22T16:52:00.000-08:00Kent,Ebonics? No, it's actually Ebola. Phil: The i...Kent,<BR/><BR/>Ebonics? No, it's actually Ebola. <BR/><BR/>Phil: <BR/><BR/><I>The innate knowledge we are born with is a kind of general revelation. So in a real sense, everything we know starts with revelation.</I><BR/><BR/>That's perhaps the most "spike in the head" statement in this whole meta. If I had the means, I would dump leaflets with that statement on them via airplane over each EC flock in the country. <BR/><BR/>You are now running for Dan's "Jael" status.Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-58427354523398958832007-12-22T14:42:00.000-08:002007-12-22T14:42:00.000-08:00Robert Easter: "You stated that to understand God ...<B>Robert Easter:</B> <I>"You stated that to understand God (and, as I take it, Life, the Universe, and Everything) we must start with God's revelation of Himself. Is not the first revelation we receive from Him actually from within our own selves?"</I><BR/><BR/>What I said was "Remember, some knowledge of God and His truth is innate in every human soul <B>because God placed it there</B> (Romans 1:19-21). He has amplified that knowledge with the more explicit revelation of His Word (the Bible), which He Himself assures us is true, and absolutely certain."<BR/><BR/>The innate knowledge we are born with is a kind of general revelation. So in a real sense, <I>everything</I> we know starts with revelation.Phil Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-49137046695183819272007-12-22T13:46:00.000-08:002007-12-22T13:46:00.000-08:004given,Isn't that the hymn "Am I a Soldier of The ...4given,<BR/><BR/>Isn't that the hymn "Am I a Soldier of The Cross"?<BR/><BR/>Good stuff.S.J. Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15922550763548455625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-32143657757498818192007-12-22T12:29:00.000-08:002007-12-22T12:29:00.000-08:00Solameanie, The Planet's Coolest Meanie(tm), doth ...Solameanie, The Planet's Coolest Meanie(tm), doth stated:<BR/><BR/>>One of the things that troubles<BR/>>me about the >ongoing "conversation" is just <BR/>>that. It's ongoing..and <BR/>>going..and going..and going. <BR/>>Nothing is ever resolved. No <BR/>>matter what point you make, and <BR/>>how solidly you have made it, you <BR/>>just keep going round and round.<BR/><BR/>Isn't the definition of insanity doing something or thinking the same way over and over again and expecting a different result or outcome, if almost by magic?<BR/><BR/>I have to admit, quite a bit of the language in these replies goes over my head. What I do know, however, is this:<BR/>There is but One Way, One Truth, and One Life. That is absolutely certain. That Way leads to life; those who do not follow that Way do not have eternal life in Heaven. There is no re-imagining or uncertain anything about it. I am, by primary trade, a meteorologist; if anyone wants to hear about uncertainty, error, what the possibilities are, where things are and where they could be headed, talk to me. The Bible is not a spiritual weather forecast. There are no chances, no probabilities, no ranges of possibilities. No "this might be the outcome/answer". Leave that line of questioning and reasoning to that which is naturally expected in a scientific discussion. It is one thing for a weather forecaster to be paid handsomely to get it right considerably more than half of the time; it is damnable heresy that the certainty of the Gospel should be taught with less than absolute authority, from the Word itself.<BR/><BR/>And as for you, Phil, your chances of a white Christmas, by my reckoning, are somewhere between 0% and 100% at this time. :-)Gilberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05267525662313103148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-8120683698418226972007-12-22T10:39:00.000-08:002007-12-22T10:39:00.000-08:00Phil, I appreciate both the depth of thought behin...Phil, I appreciate both the depth of thought behind this article and my own need to further my own understanding of such things. One question, though, You stated that to understand God (and, as I take it, Life, the Universe, and Everything) we must start with God's revelation of Himself. Is not the first revelation we receive from Him actually from within our own selves? As He said, "In the image of God created He them," and that Christ is "the true light, that enlightens everyone who comes into this world.(para.)" God is good. All that is good is from Him, and in ourselves we can only speculate to try and define "good." Yet in ourselves we see that "good" is preferable, we know "good" when we see it, and we only encounter "good" when God meets us.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02215557199259127287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-16149885719686201732007-12-22T08:59:00.000-08:002007-12-22T08:59:00.000-08:00My husband has a busy call schedule this weekend a...My husband has a busy call schedule this weekend and sent this to me in the midst of it. I just had to share it with you all.<BR/><BR/><BR/><B>Must I be carried to the skies<BR/>On flowery beds of ease,<BR/>While others fought to win the prize,<BR/>And sailed through bloody seas?</B><BR/> <BR/><B>Sure I must fight if I would reign<BR/>Increase my courage, Lord,<BR/>I'd bear the toil, endure the pain,<BR/>Supported by the Word.</B>--Isaac Watts4givenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604421713579961024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-48158682818438585422007-12-22T08:45:00.000-08:002007-12-22T08:45:00.000-08:00You guys are great! Your posts are funny, smart, ...You guys are great! Your posts are funny, smart, helpful...I could go on. I needed this so much today. I get so discouraged in my discussions with emergent folks because as solameanie said, "they just go on and on and on." They can't or won't see, and it breaks my heart.<BR/><BR/>You have lifted the spirit of this Christian sister, and I thank you. oops, sorry for another song reference. LOLkimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16545696416268938885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-22455004753058254532007-12-22T07:57:00.000-08:002007-12-22T07:57:00.000-08:00Jesus...the Rock, the tried foundation of the chur...Jesus...the Rock, the tried foundation of the church (woe to him that attempts to lay any other!)declared that He would build His church.It brings me much assurance, in spite of how determinedly the world is to undermine and contort the authority of God's Word of Truth, that, as it says in Mt. 16:18, <B><I>the gates of Hades will not overpower it.</I></B><BR/><BR/><B>Though we are in the midst of a war, we do know the ending.</B> God is faithful and our hope in His truth, His promises are sure. Resting in that helps me to press on because I often feel enshrouded with smoke.4givenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604421713579961024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-62358529575825617632007-12-22T07:26:00.000-08:002007-12-22T07:26:00.000-08:00"So many churches have websites that publish their..."So many churches have websites that publish their statement of faith, or doctrinal statement, that in reality bares little resemblance to what they truly practice."<BR/><BR/>Ain't that the truth.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the discussion.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Seems many churches say they value sound doctrine, and yet really don't. They say they are Christ-centered, and yet are people-centered. They say it's all about the glory of God, but it's about results.<BR/><BR/>I agree the Church is slowly and steadily turning to an earthly-focused Church, whereas the soul of the Church is a pilgrim in this land, and needs to an Heavenly-focused Body.donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-42519527872480340402007-12-21T21:42:00.000-08:002007-12-21T21:42:00.000-08:00Solameanie,Ebonics, right? You seem to have a gif...Solameanie,<BR/><BR/>Ebonics, right? You seem to have a gift you're cultivating there. Congratulations. Just kidding, sort of.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-82049351385218591382007-12-21T19:35:00.000-08:002007-12-21T19:35:00.000-08:00Don and Chicago,Even "windmill." What is taught de...Don and Chicago,<BR/><BR/>Even "windmill." What is taught depends on what winds are blowing. <BR/><BR/>And since we have a mention of eschatology, do you notice how uncomfortable most ECers are with the notion of a premillennial outlook? Such notions get in the way of Belinda Carlisle theology. Heaven is a place on earth, don't you know?Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1581431383082733152007-12-21T18:25:00.000-08:002007-12-21T18:25:00.000-08:00Would a sign with, "We are Post-Mill" be good? or ...<I>Would a sign with, "We are Post-Mill" be good? or A-Mil?</I><BR/><BR/>It would at least give you an idea of what that local church is all about. Pre-mill, post-mill, a-mill...If you were looking for a church, that could certainly help you to decide whether to walk through the door, or pass on by.<BR/><BR/>So many churches have websites that publish their statement of faith, or doctrinal statement, that in reality bares little resemblance to what they truly practice. I think something short and direct on the sign out front would be a great service to everyone.chicagolandmarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11296322318162882476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-68930984506666515992007-12-21T18:04:00.000-08:002007-12-21T18:04:00.000-08:00Good thoughts chicago. Thanks.Would a sign with, "...Good thoughts chicago. Thanks.<BR/><BR/>Would a sign with, "We are Post-Mill" be good? or A-Mil?donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-71646883568920508002007-12-21T17:54:00.000-08:002007-12-21T17:54:00.000-08:00donsands,I think there are many churches that are ...donsands,<BR/><BR/>I think there are many churches that are too doctrinal, but only in as much as they emphasize the doctrines of men. Legalist nonsense being a prime example...can't drink, can't smoke, can't go to the theatre, etc., and be a Christian. Or, the EC nonsense of everything is a mystery, certitude equals arrogance, it's impossible to truly know what the Bible means, etc.<BR/><BR/>The example you shared wouldn't bother me at all. I'd see it as truth in advertising. I actually think we could do with more of that. I know that when I moved to the city I live in now, it would have saved me some Sunday mornings if a number of the local churches had signs out front that said, "We don't believe the Bible to be inerrant or authoritative."chicagolandmarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11296322318162882476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-90313489714658188802007-12-21T17:31:00.000-08:002007-12-21T17:31:00.000-08:00Christian buzz, Paid? No. They're slaves. Otherwis...Christian buzz, <BR/><BR/>Paid? No. They're slaves. Otherwise they'd sound like Rick Warren...<BR/><BR/><BR/>ahem...I mean, like market stategists..but I repeat myself.<BR/><BR/>Sorry, Phil,Dan, all you guys<BR/> I didn't meant to speak for you.<BR/><BR/>And thank to all of you for the prayers and humbling advice today. <BR/><BR/>God bless.S.J. Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15922550763548455625noreply@blogger.com