tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post2793674157597996022..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: The Mark Driscoll ExperiencePhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-3693922970950322013-11-27T07:04:29.690-08:002013-11-27T07:04:29.690-08:00The rest of you: get your licks in. I'll be ou...The rest of you: get your licks in. I'll be out of internet pocket for the next 2-3 days with almost no access, and when I come back I'm closing the comments. FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-88753607739236476102013-11-27T07:04:27.959-08:002013-11-27T07:04:27.959-08:00Yeah! THAT could never happen!
< /Skynet >Yeah! THAT could never happen!<br /><br />< /Skynet >DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-81440148912305963812013-11-27T07:03:27.271-08:002013-11-27T07:03:27.271-08:00Unknown:
The only reason your comment made it out...Unknown:<br /><br />The only reason your comment made it out of moderation is that the irony of someone who can't even put his (her?) name on a rebuke for the alleged lack of a loving spirit is simply too rich. It's too fantastic.<br /><br />Thank you for making my day! Thank you for proving (again) that the internet has no sense of self-awareness. FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-20860222664728424022013-11-26T20:41:40.733-08:002013-11-26T20:41:40.733-08:00When there’s blood in the water . . .
I posted thi...When there’s blood in the water . . .<br />I posted this to Janet Mefford’s Facebook concerning the Driscoll issue:<br />“Regarding Mark Driscoll, you quoted the scripture “speaking the truth in love”. What was the condition of your heart when you had Mark Driscoll on your show? Yes, perhaps you were speaking the truth, but were you doing it in love? Honestly, <br />I don’t have a dog in this fight, but it seemed more like an ambush than an interview. You knew ahead of time that you were going to play “gotcha” when you had Mr. Driscoll on, and he was obviously entirely unprepared for this, expecting to address Christian issues that are important to the church. Yes, before you go on about honesty, we AGREE on that, but were you REALLY attempting to “nail him” because, after all, he was on one side of the Strange Fire issue, and you are apparently on the other side. I’m not defending Driscoll’s apparent plagiarism, but don’t you think, that Biblically, before you brought it before the church and the world on your show, you should have brought it up in private between yourself and Mr. Driscoll FIRST, as scripture says, and THEN brought it before the church if he was unresponsive? It seems that you skipped a step here in your eagerness to “correct” or perhaps “condemn” your brother.<br />So, were you attempting to correct him or condemn him?<br />I’m the author of an online book (free, I’m not selling anything), http://www.thedarwinpapers.com, with hundreds of footnotes, and I know how easy it might have been to have made that kind of mistake. Don’t you at least think you should have had a three way conference beforehand between yourself, Mr. Driscoll and the third party whom you both apparently know, before pulling this kind of gotcha stunt on your program?<br />Sorry, but you were so right that you were wrong,”<br />Scripture says ” All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:<br />That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” 2Tim 3:16-17 <br />I read “for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness”; I don’t see the word condemn anywhere.<br />“But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.” Galatians 5:15James Foardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08431713129171362214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-48226337850804094552013-11-26T12:53:49.520-08:002013-11-26T12:53:49.520-08:00Driscoll would do well to read Tripp's book &q...Driscoll would do well to read Tripp's book "Dangerous Calling" which makes the point repeatedly that theological knowledge must never be confused with spiritual maturity.John Chesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10341967044389760858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-48059427675946880862013-11-26T08:55:29.634-08:002013-11-26T08:55:29.634-08:00Frank, I give too much credit but that's becau...Frank, I give too much credit but that's because I have none of my own. I just thought it was an interesting side comment that betrayed even further his motivations for showing up that day.Stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05657160848405432116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-8955566472567350342013-11-26T04:08:47.923-08:002013-11-26T04:08:47.923-08:00Clark Dunlap said:
| I love when she points out t...Clark Dunlap said:<br /><br />| I love when she points out that it is "14 <br />| pages without a footnote." Classic! Talk <br />| about an argument from silence! 14 <br />| pages where you didn't say something I <br />| think you should have said! <br /><br />Clark: that statement proves you have no idea what’s at stake here, or what's necessary to properly attribute the work of others in print. If I wrote a book (in the fantasy world where that's possible) and I lifted 14 pages from Dan's book "TWTG," it is my duty to tell the reader the parts that are mine and the parts that are Dan's. A single note in the middle of the first page which says, "I heard Dan Phillips say something about this once," and then no further indication of what I borrowed is, in the best possible case, suspect usage.<br /><br />What's at stake is whether or not Driscoll presented Jones' work as his own. If he did, Janet's approach in this interview is the least of his problems.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-55344179864213626242013-11-26T03:52:46.299-08:002013-11-26T03:52:46.299-08:00Stephen --
There's really no arguing with a c...Stephen --<br /><br />There's really no arguing with a credulous person. That is: I can't convince you to give up gullibility. If, in your view, that's how Driscoll sums up the encounter at the Elephant Room 2 and his view of TD Jakes, and that's what he's willing to say about it, let him say so "for reals" and not just in some off-handed comments when he may or may not know the cameras are running.<br /><br />Let him say it where and when it counts. What he says to a stranger by accident is as likely to be a casual lie as anything else he said that day.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-59853020219685392242013-11-25T20:30:40.188-08:002013-11-25T20:30:40.188-08:00I seriously doubt Peter Jones will take Mark Drisc...I seriously doubt Peter Jones will take Mark Driscoll to task publicly, though he may agree the book plagiarizes his work. Dr. Jones is quite a fan of Driscoll.rdrift1879https://www.blogger.com/profile/01501401916554465241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-54940664396348465822013-11-25T19:37:59.485-08:002013-11-25T19:37:59.485-08:00I don't know what you mean, he clearly has not...I don't know what you mean, he clearly has nothing to lose when he talks to lowly men who do not lead churches or corporations of 15,000 members. But I did not expect him to actually admit a disagreement. 4 years ago he thought enough about prosperity theology to call it a pagan idol worship. But in the last 2 years he apparently thinks so little of it so that of perhaps the two most currently famous shills, one is merely "being happy and encouraging" and stuffy Christians need to stop picking on him. Of the other, well we can take him at his word that what sounds like modalism really is trinitarianism, but otherwise Driscoll doesn't need to talk to him again.<br /><br />But it's Macarthur's conference that needs to be crashed.Stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05657160848405432116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-38076926123609603462013-11-25T19:09:52.733-08:002013-11-25T19:09:52.733-08:00Stephen:
What did he have to lose by saying that ...Stephen:<br /><br />What did he have to lose by saying that to that young fellow, do you think?FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-20764279829080704142013-11-25T18:12:52.733-08:002013-11-25T18:12:52.733-08:00On fame: Part of the issue for Driscoll is that he...On fame: Part of the issue for Driscoll is that here in Seattle he <b>is</b>, much like El Guapo, (in)famous. Mars Hill gets a mention from the local news channels (one in particular) every fortnight or so for some mis-doing, perceived or real. That contributes to his expectation of name recognition (and thereby, apparently, kid glove celebrity status). <br /><br />Even the worldliest people I work with know how Driscoll is, and comment on his reputation. It's quite sobering for me because it ends up reinforcing a view about the hypocrisy of all Christians.jrbakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14397510938153529733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-79887915419178172172013-11-25T18:10:19.929-08:002013-11-25T18:10:19.929-08:00Frank do you plan on addressing the 60 seconds or ...Frank do you plan on addressing the 60 seconds or so in the video after the books are "confiscated" when a young man asks Mark about TD Jakes? It sounds like Driscoll says that:<br /><br />1. Jakes and Driscoll are not friends and have not conversed before or after Elephant Room.<br />2. Driscoll is convinced Jakes is now Trinitarian, Dan's plea for a proper repentance and denial of past published doctrinal statements notwithstanding.<br />3. Driscoll does not agree with Jakes' prosperity and other beliefs outside of Theology Proper.<br /><br />That is...something else.Stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05657160848405432116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-22444408407850945992013-11-25T15:44:26.813-08:002013-11-25T15:44:26.813-08:00Hey I was in that same courtyard some months ago. ...Hey I was in that same courtyard some months ago. I didnt get to meet as many staff as Mark did - maybe I should have handed out some books or something. Actually, I was hoping to meet up with Phil who told me he was in the gym and i didnt know where the gym was - -long story. Anyway, interesting story. And wasn't Dr Who 50th awesome!!!!!!!!!!!Andrew Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14605531312115198662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-37399642332862790192013-11-25T13:26:32.501-08:002013-11-25T13:26:32.501-08:00I think histrionics I appropriate, Frank. Modern m...I think histrionics I appropriate, Frank. Modern medicine has disproved the old wive tale that hysters are the cause of the condition!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01188601576868454534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-92086395383360863072013-11-25T13:04:07.559-08:002013-11-25T13:04:07.559-08:00Irony:
Driscoll publically holds Mefferd to a stan...Irony:<br />Driscoll publically holds Mefferd to a standard of Christian charity toward him in order to deflect her attempt to hold him to a standard of Christian integrity.<br /><br />This IS the standard maneuver for immature evangelical celebrities caught in their own devices.Jerry Wragghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11158380012055209126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-44269048237200563522013-11-25T12:30:59.285-08:002013-11-25T12:30:59.285-08:00I hope you weren't watching Doctor who past th...I hope you weren't watching Doctor who past the 7th Doctor. Otherwise you're just wasting your time with BBC scifi soap opera...Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13068196575763786944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-28348218946542266562013-11-25T12:25:18.287-08:002013-11-25T12:25:18.287-08:00WOW, lets all jump on the beat up Mark Driscoll ba...WOW, lets all jump on the beat up Mark Driscoll bandwagon. I am quite sure that is not what the Pyro team is after here, and I am quite sure that I have no desire to defend a guy who does at times seem disingenuous and that's just a small problem I have with him.<br />BUT, After listening to the Mefford show, hmmm, not a real good bit of journalism there. I had never heard of her before this and I live in the metroplex. I thought she asked good questions about the Strange Fire "visit" and about the intellectual property issue, but then like a hound dog with a juicy bone she didn't let go. She said, "I don't teach I just interview" (or something close to that) and then she pontificated on his stealing, thieving ways. He said, I will look into it, I will ask Dr. Jones, if I did something wrong I'm sorry I'll try to fix it. <br />What more did she want? Blood?<br />Yeah, maybe he forgot about it as soon as the conversation was over but we don't know that do we?<br />I love when she points out that it is "14 pages without a footnote." Classic! Talk about an argument from silence! 14 pages where you didn't say something I think you should have said!<br />I wish the complaints I get from my preaching and teaching multiple times every week involved things I DIDN'T SAY instead of the boneheaded things that slip out now and then.<br />And yes, I know the importance of proper assignment of credit for intellectual property. I get that.<br />Here's the thing. We can complain about his attention getting stunt. Fine, if you think that's what it was, great. Probably right.<br />But I love it when folks who have no fame at all, whose own neighbors don't know them. complain about a guy who pastors a mega-church and has over a million folks in the USA who know who he is. Beyond the 500 folks on my Facebook page and another 500 who aren't that's the extent of my fame I'm sure.<br />Let's complain about things with SUBSTANCE!<br />I don't really care about whether he thinks he's famous. Whether he thinks he was doing Mefford a favor (he was by the way). I care about a few of the more substantive things he said, that I have a problem hearing a Christian say. But, I have heard him preach a clear, biblical gospel that sounds to me like it comes from a guy who believes it.<br />I'll tell you this, if I EVER happen to have a book gain popularity in the Christian community, I would think twice about going on the Mefford show now that I know how she treats her "guests."<br />Clark Dunlaphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06887033027838106600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-67051425652091388112013-11-25T12:23:22.202-08:002013-11-25T12:23:22.202-08:00Cathy - it's a fair question, and I haven'...Cathy - it's a fair question, and I haven't been able to find a comment by Peter Jones. David C. Cook is his publisher, which is a small dog compared to Tyndale.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-62923856103403832812013-11-25T12:14:29.440-08:002013-11-25T12:14:29.440-08:00I have no use Mark Driscoll's buffoonery; none...I have no use Mark Driscoll's buffoonery; none at all. However, I listened to the radio show and... <br />I thought she made her point and proceeded to overkill. Maybe it's my cultural lens, or maybe I'm just plain wrong, (or both) but it made me cringe. <br /><br />I guess there was no other way to play it. I mean, where could she go after dropping the plagiarism bomb? "Moving on... Pastor, let's discuss the fine merits of your plagiarized work since you'd have us believe it somehow sprays fabreze on your 'integrity.'" <br /><br />BTW, does anyone know whether his un-cited source intends to pursue Driscoll or his publisher? Cathy M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08107932375538192094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-41199711773685049042013-11-25T10:24:33.392-08:002013-11-25T10:24:33.392-08:00Driscoll is a celebrity in his own mind, and after...Driscoll is a celebrity in his own mind, and after all, that's the only place that counts.Jules' Dinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15786057469530871298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-37102567343550881582013-11-25T10:06:48.451-08:002013-11-25T10:06:48.451-08:00Frank, he's the Eddie Haskel! What a perfect a...Frank, he's the Eddie Haskel! What a perfect analogy. Someone that married into my family, I secretly referred to as Eddie Haskel. Mr Phony is no longer around. He's in prison. Go figure. I'm surprised that Mark didn't start his letter to John MacArthur as, "Dear Mr Clever. Is Wallace at home?" I thought the same thing as I listened to his syrupy way of talking in the interview. I hate for people to spit, especially ladies. But I must confess, I had to spit a few times while I listened. Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10259575036171593152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-77368463827778415172013-11-25T09:02:45.169-08:002013-11-25T09:02:45.169-08:00Jay has opened up a fantastic part of this which, ...Jay has opened up a fantastic part of this which, let's face it, is overlooked in a very fantastic way by everybody thinking about this right now.<br /><br />I'll say it:<br />Mark Driscoll is not famous.<br /><br />Here's how you can test that hypothesis:<br /><br />Get a clipboard and a sheet of paper and some church clothes on and go down to the mall or the airport. You might get permission to do a survey before you stay accosting people.<br /><br />When you have permission, start asking people you meet which of the following names do you recognize:<br /><br />Barack Obama<br />George W. Bush<br />George Straight<br />Johnny Cash<br />Bono<br />Dave Matthews<br />Don Omar<br />The Kardashian family<br />Neil Gaiman<br />Gillian Flynn<br />E. L. James<br />D. A Carson<br />John MacArthur<br />Mark Driscoll<br /><br />If you have the time, you should run this on about 300 people for a decent sample. 1000 would be fantastic, all the extra effort one can muster.<br /><br />I suspect that the results will tell you who is and is not famous, and that is exactly the point here.<br /><br />As <a href="http://www.reformation21.org/blog/2013/11/if-the-top-men-take-over-who-w.php" rel="nofollow">Carl Trueman has so spectacularly said</a> this weekend, celebrities are routinely allowed to behave in ways which would not be tolerated in ordinary mortals. But are we really so desperate for our own celebrities that we have to choose men who are, frankly, practically anonymous in our culture at large?<br /><br />How sad that is.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-48674283800302099012013-11-25T08:51:33.705-08:002013-11-25T08:51:33.705-08:00I listened to the Janet M interview over the weeke...I listened to the Janet M interview over the weekend. When it comes to Mark Driscoll *yawn* -- nothing is ever his fault, and when the facts get to close, he resorts to accusing others of being unChristian, mean(tone, etc.)and not mature. <br /><br />This playbook has been used so often I am stunned (stunned!) that people can't see through it. Oh well, works for that political party that starts with a D. I guess I shouldn't be stunned there are millions of low-information followers out there. I'm going to refer to him henceforth as "Teflon Mark". Ever try to pin jello to a wall? Marlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10846790306119108655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-24375928624787069062013-11-25T08:50:33.668-08:002013-11-25T08:50:33.668-08:00His "Reformed" cover story is interestin...His "Reformed" cover story is interesting, too, given that he's a 4-pointer.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.com