tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post2876829235874670406..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Burned Alive: Some Background on the India ViolencePhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1310843457993410352008-09-05T09:06:00.000-07:002008-09-05T09:06:00.000-07:00b.s.pradeep there's no question that Hinduism and ...b.s.pradeep there's no question that Hinduism and even more Buddhism talk an awful lot about peace and harmony.I also agree with you that there is a lot of ignorance on both sides. <BR/>Hinduism tries to be all inclusive; however, I would argue that there are at least 2 central truths that every Hindu holds true: reincarnation (every birth is a rebirth) and Karma.<BR/><BR/>Now, to claim that Christianity and Hinduism have some things similar is true;however, there's much more essential beliefs on which they disagree.Christianity does not try to be all inclusive. Jesus was a very exclusive. Jesus claimed he was God, without sin, perfect in every way, savior. <BR/><BR/>You said: "All religious text reveal the same truth."<BR/>Well, by definition, truth is exclusive, otherwise it's not the truth. So when Hindusim talks about reincarnation and karma, whereas Christianity denies both, well ... they can't be both right. <BR/>You might claim that those are not essential; however, when Jesus talks about a real place called Heaven and a real place called Hell, he is either telling the truth or lying? Now, you can claim that the law of non-contradiction is a western invention; but to deny the law of non-contradiction you need to use the law of non-contradiction. So, it's "either or" but never "both".<BR/><BR/>It makes much more logical sense to say that all religions are false, than to claim that they're all true. So, as you can see my friend I might be wrong or you might be wrong, but we can't both be right. <BR/><BR/>I admire the religiosity and devoutness of Hindu people, but put yourself into the shoes of the Christian missionaries that believe that Hell is a real place and Jesus is a real savior. What would you do? If you knew that a hurricane comes, would you tell anyone? Or would you say: "Well, you see, they were raised believing that there's no hurricane so I shouldn't bother them."<BR/><BR/>In conclusion, the more you learn about Jesus the more you learn that he does not leave you undecided. You either believe him or you don't. You either love him or hate him. He is either a lunatic or He is who he said he was. That choice is in your hands, not your parents', your culture's or missionaries'. The missionaries just try to present everyone that choice, nothing more.Ben Nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17720758092068979228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-73347812842617479842008-09-04T10:02:00.000-07:002008-09-04T10:02:00.000-07:00B.S. Pradeep:As all water from the rivers move tow...B.S. Pradeep:<BR/><I>As all water from the rivers move toward the ocean and they become one.All religious text reveal the same truth.</I><BR/><BR/>Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. <B>Neither is there salvation in any other</B>: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved!<BR/><BR/>(Acts 4:10-12)Sharonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14534421623031122881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-21681267638145111402008-09-04T08:09:00.000-07:002008-09-04T08:09:00.000-07:00As told by Benjamin Nitu and walker Liberation or ...As told by Benjamin Nitu and walker <BR/><BR/>Liberation or freedom from suffering and pain is obtained only by repentance for our sins and <BR/><BR/>surrendering to god and asking him for his forgiveness.As we know almighty lord represent <BR/><BR/>absolute love,truth,forgiveness,kindness...etc<BR/>The same facts which is mentioned in bible is also mentioned in various religions of the world that god exists and he is the supreme divine being.<BR/><BR/>This fact can also be found in bhagavad Gita(which the most famous Hindu religious and spiritual text which is similar to Bible for Christians)which is rendered by Lord <BR/><BR/>Krishna/krsna(Hindu God).Song of the Lord when literally translated to English speaks the same language <BR/>of love, surrender to the almighty and forgiveness.<BR/><BR/>As all water from the rivers move toward the ocean and they become one.All religious text reveal the same truth.<BR/><BR/>you can find some the similarities between Bible and Bhagwad Gita in the following links and you may get some better understanding of other religion.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.krishna.com/" REL="nofollow">krishna.com</A>Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08535210975119777079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-996209968609885742008-09-04T03:05:00.000-07:002008-09-04T03:05:00.000-07:00Phil,Thanks for highlighting the plight of our bro...Phil,<BR/>Thanks for highlighting the plight of our brothers and sisters here in India. They constantly face physical retribution for their public confession of Christ, even more so than those of us who are western. In UP and Bihar, we often hear of reliable stories wherein a family or community has been attacked by radicals for simply being followers of Jesus. <BR/>Thank you also for highlighting the complexity of "conversion" here. Conversion in India is a matter of political, social, communal, economic and spiritual significance.<BR/>Please continue to pray that national believers would humbly proclaim the living Christ and call all peoples to His Lordship. And pray that our Hindu friends would see the supremacy of Jesus and turn to follow Him.TJ Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15598689616011346270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-20459894358348303632008-09-03T06:32:00.000-07:002008-09-03T06:32:00.000-07:00Pradeep, if you are still reading this thread:some...Pradeep, if you are still reading this thread:<BR/><BR/>some of your concerns about conversion are addressed in the comments to the previous day's post.<BR/><BR/>Ultimately, conversion is not a question merely of one's associations.<BR/><BR/>Conversion is a response to the realization that the truth claims made in the Bible are legitimate.<BR/><BR/>It is a belief of a sinful man (or woman) that he stands before a Holy God, and that price paid by Jesus Christ is the only thing in heaven or earth capable of reconciling the two.<BR/><BR/>Is is the renunciation of any beliefs that run contrary to that which is affirmed in the Christian Bible.<BR/><BR/>It is a supernatural, permanent change in the heart and mind of such a person that cannot be accomplished by any other means but by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and His Atoning death, resurrection, and ascension.Wes Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06629678809396531837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-38157434642539178892008-09-03T06:00:00.000-07:002008-09-03T06:00:00.000-07:00Pradeep, the test is simple my friend. Would they ...Pradeep, the test is simple my friend. Would they have done the same thing to Jesus?<BR/>you said:<I> "now when it comes to conversion i feel this is a controversial subject but i feel it is OK if there is no pressure put on the individual who converts to other religion or not lured by some benefits(corruption) for converting. if the person feels some spiritual inclination<BR/>based on the teachings then i feel he could get converted to another religion." </I><BR/><BR/>Here is what Jesus said once: <BR/>"Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? <B> I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.</B> Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish." (LUKE 13:1-5)<BR/><BR/>Make no mistake about it, the gospel is the good news to some and horrible news to others. <BR/>There is only one justifiable reason for conversion and that is the truth.Ben Nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17720758092068979228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-32682210403204882542008-09-03T05:42:00.000-07:002008-09-03T05:42:00.000-07:00I feel violence for any cause whether justified or...I feel violence for any cause whether justified or unjustified should not be encouraged.<BR/><BR/>As untouchability could be found in some parts of India,similarly racism is found in some of the western countries.<BR/><BR/>There are references to cast system in Hindu religious texts where god him self tells I have created the four casts namely the Brahmins(spiritual and religious <BR/>community who know the religious texts and spread the Spiritual,religious and worldly knowledge to the other 3 <BR/>casts)Shatriyas(warriors community who needs to protect other 3 casts from enemies),Vaishyas(Business <BR/>community who needs to take care of the economy of the country and to do charity to other 3 casts),Shudras(labor community who serve in the form <BR/>of laborers to the other 3 cast).<BR/>But there is no reference to untouchablilty which is followed in some parts of the country in the name of cast system.It may be said that god created the cast system for the division of work,so each cast serves the other casts and there be overall harmony and development of the society.<BR/><BR/>I would like to say the cast system is a complex subject <BR/>which needs deep understanding of Hindu religion to understand it and to make any comments about it.<BR/><BR/>As in any religion ignorant people belonging to that religion do not understand the religion properly and they practice religion in incorrect way.<BR/><BR/><BR/>I myself have studied in a Cristian institution up to my SSLC and I feel there are some things which are good and somethings which are <BR/>not so good.The school which I studied believed in conversion, I had Cristian friends far close to me than few of my Hindu friends.at times i used to feel uncomfortable when i was made to sing prayers in <BR/>praise of Cristian gods namely Jesus and Mary .i used to feel,was it correct on my part to praise different lords than which i believed in.Hence i had some mixed <BR/>feelings about my school.I was so influenced by the Cristian school that I and my Hindu friends used to <BR/>wear dollar of infant Jesus and Mother Mary and attend mass in the church.Hence when i look back I feel i was completely influenced by the Cristian school teachers.But i feel one should not indoctrinate an <BR/>innocent and ignorant child with teaching and practices of any other religion than that which he is born with.<BR/><BR/>now when it comes to conversion i feel this is a controversial subject but i feel it is OK if there is no pressure put on the individual who converts to other <BR/>religion or not lured by some benefits(corruption) for converting. if the person feels some spiritual inclination <BR/>based on the teachings then i feel he could get converted to another religion.<BR/><BR/>When it comes to RSS, Bajrangdal, VHP, Ram Sena collectively called as Sang Parivar they are conservative hindu groups.As in <BR/>all religions there are conservative sections and liberal <BR/>sections.I feel the conservative sections of both communities(Hindus and Christians) have to introspect <BR/>themselves for what has happened in Orissa.<BR/><BR/>India is a big country and there are many Cristian institutions who <BR/>feel secure and happy.And there is a state in India <BR/><BR/>which is Goa which have 30% percent of the population to be Christians living happily.<BR/><BR/>Finally I want to say that there should be a debate on conversion whether it should take place or not if it so takes place how should <BR/>it take place(what are the justifiable reasons for <BR/>conversion) so that there is some clarity on the subject of conversion.which is I presume is the major cause of <BR/>all these kinds of conflicts.<BR/><BR/>I Pray for a law to be formed as soon as possible in the Indian judicial system which clearly defines justified conversion.<BR/><BR/>I pray God so that people leave their tough stands taken by them and move to some consensus over the <BR/>issue of conversion.<BR/><BR/>I pray god so that there be peace, love, harmony, health, knowledge <BR/>and prosperity all over the world.<BR/><BR/>let barriers be converted to bridges.<BR/>Let hate be converted to love.<BR/>Let sorrow be converted to joy.<BR/>let fear be converted to peace.<BR/>let ignorance be converted to knowledge.<BR/>let slavery be converted to freedom<BR/>let hell be converted to heaven.<BR/>Let untouchability be converted embrace.<BR/>let violence be converted to nonviolence.<BR/><BR/>India<BR/>Pradeep.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08535210975119777079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-57817416077992421532008-09-03T05:32:00.000-07:002008-09-03T05:32:00.000-07:00Tertullian was right: “The blood of the martyrs is...Tertullian was right: “The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church”<BR/>He was also right when he stated that “the first reaction to truth is hatred”<BR/><BR/>May God bless India. With God there is no waste!Ben Nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17720758092068979228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80631570973962513912008-09-02T23:26:00.000-07:002008-09-02T23:26:00.000-07:00Hearing stories like these are difficult. I am out...Hearing stories like these are difficult. I am outraged and am quicker to cry to God for justice more than anything. I've been on a few missionary trips in latin America and never experienced any kind of opposition. I can't imagine what it's like for these brothers and sisters who risk their lives daily for the sake of the Gospel. May the Lord keep them.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09045435425352838499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80430412638728076792008-09-02T21:29:00.000-07:002008-09-02T21:29:00.000-07:00Right on, Stefan. My own struggles are nothing co...Right on, Stefan. My own struggles are nothing compared to these faithful ones'. May the Lord keep good his word and provide them (and us) ways of escape when temptations become too strong to bear.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08289347868497438542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-18535757883017638032008-09-02T19:56:00.000-07:002008-09-02T19:56:00.000-07:00It makes my daily struggles as a Christian seem pa...It makes my daily struggles as a Christian seem pathetic by comparison.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-85081978195419002892008-09-02T17:50:00.000-07:002008-09-02T17:50:00.000-07:00Thanks so much for posting this guys. My family an...Thanks so much for posting this guys. My family and I are missionaries headed to West Africa to work among the Muslims. I gain great encouragement from these stories and it makes me realize that the gospel is surely not about me. Thanks again. <BR/><BR/>Together in His Labors,<BR/>The Long familySteven Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16490376778802595677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-58760630242491783252008-09-02T17:33:00.000-07:002008-09-02T17:33:00.000-07:00Thanks Phil for providing this background. I appre...Thanks Phil for providing this background. I appreciate these posts and the call to prayer for our brethren.Andrew E. Courtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14785177961642089360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-59457117859320988962008-09-02T14:01:00.000-07:002008-09-02T14:01:00.000-07:00Last year I received an email that described in de...Last year I received an email that described in detail the violence that some missionaries in Turkey had to endure before they were martyred. The account was so harrowing that it almost seemed unreal, but we know better. (Did not the Lord say that these things would happen?) May the Lord keep our faith in him in these troubled times, and may he protect his own who are in danger.<BR/><BR/>(The story of those missionaries in Turkey can be found <A HREF="http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2007/s07040123.htm" REL="nofollow">here</A>.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08289347868497438542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-77505736498410598092008-09-02T09:26:00.000-07:002008-09-02T09:26:00.000-07:00It amazes me that the news media and politicians c...It amazes me that the news media and politicians can focus on places like Kosovo, Georgia etc..and yet ignore a slaughter like this in "the world's largest democracy." Where's the call for sanctions or some other high-profile action to stop the bloodshed? <BR/><BR/>Then again, maybe I shouldn't be surprised.Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-35435126876927867942008-09-02T09:11:00.000-07:002008-09-02T09:11:00.000-07:00Hi Phil,I confess that it's hard for me to love th...Hi Phil,<BR/><BR/>I confess that it's hard for me to love the enemies of Christ in India. To read about an innocent missionary and two young sons being burned alive causes great anger and grief to well up.<BR/><BR/>Jesus is the Truth. He unites... and divides ... to the point of death sometimes.<BR/><BR/>God bless all persecuted saints, martyrs, missionaries, and faithful disciples.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-88421871944306197602008-09-02T08:27:00.000-07:002008-09-02T08:27:00.000-07:00Thanks very much for your detailed report of the s...Thanks very much for your detailed report of the situation in Orissa.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-21523947568573763202008-09-02T07:50:00.000-07:002008-09-02T07:50:00.000-07:00Andrew:Thanks.<B>Andrew:</B><BR/><BR/>Thanks.Phil Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-78035842628102501662008-09-02T07:49:00.000-07:002008-09-02T07:49:00.000-07:00phil - really appreciate your work on these two po...phil - really appreciate your work on these two posts. i blogged it.Andrew Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14605531312115198662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-68555751974501128522008-09-02T06:44:00.000-07:002008-09-02T06:44:00.000-07:00Thanks for posting this. To be burned alive like t...Thanks for posting this. To be burned alive like that is too difficult to even imagine, especially two young lads.donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-35599776501260566382008-09-02T04:37:00.000-07:002008-09-02T04:37:00.000-07:00I pray things like this will both help us realize ...I pray things like this will both help us realize that the front lines are not in North America, and that we American living Christians will part with more money, help, prayer, and ears to hear God's calling as it pertains to joining our hearts and lives to our brothers and sisters abroad.Rick Fruehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05879848568892457571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-35964345541760174862008-09-02T04:07:00.000-07:002008-09-02T04:07:00.000-07:00At times like this, the consumeristic 'gospel' tha...At times like this, the consumeristic 'gospel' that North America too often offers looks like the weak, naked, blind, thing that really it is.<BR/><BR/>God grant that we may live boldly in our generation, in times of peace, rather than have that peace (continue to) lull us to a stupor.<BR/><BR/>Lord, help us to truly wake up.<BR/><BR/>Starting with me.Wes Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06629678809396531837noreply@blogger.com