tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post3180982425748922245..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Christianity AstrayPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-12194614929502601912007-12-05T05:53:00.000-08:002007-12-05T05:53:00.000-08:00Take it easy on CT. They bring us valuable offers ...Take it easy on CT. They bring us valuable offers for improving our holiness such as came in their E-Newsletter to me today from http://www.sacredmint.com/. The Sacred Cross, made with stone fragments from the hills around Jerusalem. Can't wait to order them for all of my friends!PLJ IIIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01559045527985492372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-91663920217398446112007-12-04T13:24:00.000-08:002007-12-04T13:24:00.000-08:00Stratem,You said it, "stick to the facts". I say i...Stratem,<BR/><BR/>You said it, "stick to the facts". I say if you believe it as fact then speak it as fact.philnesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04393311811604119321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-38177737184719437872007-12-04T09:27:00.000-08:002007-12-04T09:27:00.000-08:00Here's the definition of a cult we use in the apol...Here's the definition of a cult we use in the apologetics ministry with which I am affiliated:<BR/><BR/>"Two or more people who have a real or imaginary need they are trying to meet or fulfill by believing that which is false about the person and work of the biblical Jesus Christ." <BR/><BR/>I'd love to see a judge try to rule on that if someone ever tries to litigate it.Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-66797103478264456442007-12-04T07:51:00.000-08:002007-12-04T07:51:00.000-08:00Hmmm... looking over some of the late additions fr...Hmmm... looking over some of the late additions from yesterday, I see that some people misinterpreted what I said, as meaning that I don't view Mormonism as a cult. In fact, I do view it as a cult. I was making the point that M. has become so mainstream, that the non-Biblical world now probably either doesn't consider them to be a cult, or soon won't. From a Biblical standpoint, they are a cult. My other point was that that's not a term you should use in a conversation where you are trying to teach or correct someone who may be sympathetic to Mormonism, because their hearing will immediately turn off if you do, and you won't convince them of much thereafter. Better to just state the facts about what M. believes, and how it conflicts with the Bible. They'll quickly see that there's a rat in there, whether they call it a 'cult' or not.<BR/><BR/>If you want to convince someone of something, it's always better to stick to the facts, rather than to name-calling.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-41342944989702056982007-12-04T07:31:00.000-08:002007-12-04T07:31:00.000-08:00Strategem,Stop subscribing you say? Would you sto...Strategem,<BR/><BR/>Stop subscribing you say? Would you stop subscribing to your friend because he's Catholic or Emergent? <BR/><BR/>Those definitions of cult were too pretty. Was that the new and improved, charitable, not to offend edition? I bet an older Webster copy would tell it like it is. <BR/><BR/>You see, this is how one becomes desensitized to truth, we just stop telling the truth. And then when you get enough people joined up, its unquestionably the truth by the numbers.philnesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04393311811604119321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-2174612504331922662007-12-04T07:12:00.000-08:002007-12-04T07:12:00.000-08:00I agree on CT, and I feel the same way about Inter...I agree on CT, and I feel the same way about InterVarsity press. They are an amazing mixture of solid teaching and pseudo-evangelical fluff.<BR/><BR/>I remember when I signed up for the IVP "Send me everything you publish" club (early 80's) and was almost never disappointed. Now there's almost nothing in their popular line I find useful, and many things positively harmful.<BR/><BR/>And don't get me started on Eerdmans...Mark B. Hansonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15942591774072214556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-25073717020259369362007-12-04T06:09:00.000-08:002007-12-04T06:09:00.000-08:00Maybe "conviction" is something more in the crimin...Maybe "conviction" is something more in the criminal line than the traditional meaning among evangelicals. <BR/><BR/>Ouch.Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-2654161517832462142007-12-04T05:27:00.000-08:002007-12-04T05:27:00.000-08:00Maybe we could form a club?Maybe we could form a club?DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-28755883118632389922007-12-03T21:01:00.000-08:002007-12-03T21:01:00.000-08:00Then there's the fact CT's tagline is The Magazine...Then there's the fact CT's tagline is The Magazine of Evangelical Conviction. <BR/><BR/>I'd say the magazine does more to undermine biblical convictions than bolster them. <BR/><BR/>For different reasons, I let my subscription to WORLD magazine lapse not once, but twice.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00499447751220981083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1411879081498205982007-12-03T19:46:00.000-08:002007-12-03T19:46:00.000-08:00I used to read CT faithfully, in the 70's and earl...I used to read CT faithfully, in the 70's and earlier '80's. Bad sign when they rejected plain-reading creationism; worse when they sold out on what the Bible said about women and the pastorate. It just continued downhill from there. I have an anthology of CT articles from when it was a truly great magazine, leading instead of following.<BR/><BR/>Since then, I've twice accepted "try us for free" offers, and each time let the subscription lapse with disgust.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-37469449427379422422007-12-03T13:39:00.000-08:002007-12-03T13:39:00.000-08:00"But in the process, I am still publishing a lot o..."But in the process, I am still publishing a lot of heresy, due to the liberal theologian (and hey, maybe even the conservative editor is wrong on occasion).<BR/><BR/>Is that wrong? Perhaps, because disseminating lies is still disseminating lies, even if you just want to give a fair presentation of both sides."<BR/><BR/>~I deal with something akin to this on a regular basis (everyday!)and going by what I've seen there and in other like situations, somebody is going to hear/read/see something very misleading and might not turn the page to see or hear the refutation and as such, will have been mislead. <BR/><BR/>The closest thing to this which I've seen work is a setting in which an issue is represented and a <I>qualified</I> debater picks it apart using facts, and leaves no doubt as to its value before God.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately that doesn't happen often.~Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01819856178499938127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-72404819235400159422007-12-03T12:46:00.000-08:002007-12-03T12:46:00.000-08:00Sola,"I have always thought that the church reserv...Sola,<BR/><BR/>"I have always thought that the church reserves the right to define itself. Who cares if 'cult' is a loaded term."<BR/><BR/>I'm with you my brother! Dr. Walter Martin, author of <B>Kingdom of the Cults</B> labeled Mormonism, "For what it is; a cult."<BR/><BR/>Cuz the way things are going, I'm afraid we may have to leave "pseudo-Christian" open for evangelicalism. ;-)Ken Silvahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01390319268507275969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-10624730083429099872007-12-03T12:04:00.000-08:002007-12-03T12:04:00.000-08:00Solameanie,I agree with you. One people holding to...Solameanie,<BR/><BR/>I agree with you. One people holding to one opinion flogged themselves, danced, and called on their god to come down and consume their sacrifice all day. It never happened.<BR/><BR/>One other held to an opinion and fire came down and consumed the offering, the rocks of the alter and the water in the ditch around it....I like that opinion...<BR/><BR/>1 Kings 18:21<BR/><BR/>An entire nation was being led astray before the differences were made clear that day. We should work to make them as clear today.ezekielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11991868400830971195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-44127923804191191922007-12-03T11:46:00.000-08:002007-12-03T11:46:00.000-08:00Stratagem,Read any literatue by ex-Mormons, they w...Stratagem,<BR/><BR/>Read any literatue by ex-Mormons, they will be the first to tell you, Mormonism is a cult.CHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15390988470152416157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-87309916614104387002007-12-03T11:42:00.000-08:002007-12-03T11:42:00.000-08:00Ironically, when I was first saved, I thought, "He...Ironically, when I was first saved, I thought, "Hey, I can be comfortable being an evangelical Christian, because look at the plethora of views and opinions 'evangelicals' hold! It's a big tent!" But the Holy Spirit had already gotten ahold of me and was wrestling with me.<BR/><BR/>(I can even identify the precise turning point: May 31st of this year—soon after my baptism—as I read Edith Schaeffer's <I>Christianity is Jewish,</I> and her explanation of why Abraham's faith was counted to him as righteousness.)<BR/><BR/>And so I began to learn of this concept called biblical orthodoxy, and the essential doctrine of salvation by grace through faith that undergird and unite both the Old and New Testaments.<BR/><BR/>Now, I look at those same groups who count themselves as "evangelicals"—whose claim to the name made it easier for me to identify myself as one initially—and am reminded of Jesus' words in His Sermon on the Mount:<BR/><BR/><I>Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.</I> (<A HREF="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Matthew+7%3A13-14" REL="nofollow">Matthew 7:13-14</A>)<BR/><BR/>Not that we find it by our own efforts. Our flesh desires the wide gate and the easy way. May God give us the ears to hear loud and clear His Shepherd's call to obedience, and to the verdant pastures beyond the narrow gate.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-22233533399430094642007-12-03T11:01:00.000-08:002007-12-03T11:01:00.000-08:00Yall are slow to the party. Fifteen years ago whe...Yall are slow to the party. Fifteen years ago when they did a puff piece on Al Gore as a good southern Baptist when "Earth in the Balance" had so many pagan themes was when I knew CT had lost it. Then I think that is the same year they identified Mollencott as a "Evangelical lesbian" is when I lost it and them!Bill Honsbergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04836300411894206079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-72079435445167414242007-12-03T10:52:00.000-08:002007-12-03T10:52:00.000-08:00I can't agree on that one, strategem, simply becau...I can't agree on that one, strategem, simply because there are too many evangelicals willing to fudge and call Mormonism just another Christian denomination. They have to be identified as what they are. Of course, when witnessing to an individual Mormon you might want to take a more diplomatic course, but otherwise this has to be slugged out. <BR/><BR/>The Mormons are very aggressive in their promotions. "Just another testament of Jesus Christ." I'm sure you've seen their slick TV ads. I am sure Mitt will try to blur the lines even further, and enough politically active Christians who have lost their minds will help him do it. <BR/><BR/>When Mormons claim to be something they are not with such wide public campaigns, the truth must be told plainly and clearly. If you don't like the term cult, then say false religion. But don't allow the lines to be blurred.Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-84037866029204134152007-12-03T10:36:00.000-08:002007-12-03T10:36:00.000-08:00CULT (source:Merriam Webster online www.M-W.com)1:...<I>CULT (source:Merriam Webster online www.M-W.com)<BR/>1: formal religious veneration : worship<BR/>2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents<BR/>3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents<BR/>4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator (health cults)<BR/>5 a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b: the object of such devotion c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion</I><BR/><BR/>Well, it <I>is</I> a loaded term; however, definition #3 fits Mormonism currently. However, that is becoming less and less the case all the time (unfortunately). Certainly, from a Biblical Christian standpoint, they will always be a cult.<BR/><BR/>I would avoid using the term "cult" simply because it isn't very descriptive, and can raise defensiveness (and hence, close minds). Better and more helpful (in my opinion) to explain to people why Mormonism is at odds with orthodox Christian belief, and leave out any abrasive labels.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-42596299227246812012007-12-03T10:24:00.000-08:002007-12-03T10:24:00.000-08:00Sharon,I've dropped them on my toes. Ow. Ken,Isn't...Sharon,<BR/><BR/>I've dropped them on my toes. Ow. <BR/><BR/>Ken,<BR/><BR/>Isn't that something? I have always thought that the church reserves the right to define itself. Who cares if "cult" is a loaded term. It is what it is. Perhaps they would like pseudo-Christian better? <BR/><BR/>This reminds me of a story passed around in apologetics circles, and I think it is credible. Supposedly a few years back, a well-known evangelical leader involved in politics rode to some political event with the president of the Mormon church. Said evangelical leader was asked if he shared the Gospel with the Mormon leader. His reply? "Oh, no. That would have destroyed the values coalition we are trying to build." <BR/><BR/>So the Gospel is sacrificed on the altar of political expediency? Sad.Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-23397270663223875722007-12-03T10:14:00.000-08:002007-12-03T10:14:00.000-08:00"I also asked whether it was technically correct t..."I also asked whether it was technically correct to use the term 'cult" to describe Mormonism. One poster said to refrain from using it because it's a loaded term."<BR/><BR/>Methinks it may have been the poster who was "loaded". ;-)Ken Silvahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01390319268507275969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-14023146863571015712007-12-03T10:11:00.000-08:002007-12-03T10:11:00.000-08:00I stopped buying CT years ago. I don't remember ho...I stopped buying CT years ago. I don't remember how long its been since I've held an issue in my hands, but I do know its been quite awhile.<BR/><BR/>I think it is helpful to be aware of what they are publishing so that we know what exactly we're dealing with, so I'm not going to say stop reading entirely. I have occasionally read some politically oriented gay editorials just so I know what they're aiming for and how they're planning to get there. Unfortunately, CT seems to be another publication/group that needs to be watched because they're not to be trusted.nopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06507834449285501803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-27453008599179615442007-12-03T10:02:00.000-08:002007-12-03T10:02:00.000-08:00SolaMeanie said... . . . If you've ever been hit b...SolaMeanie said... <BR/><BR/>. . . <I>If you've ever been hit by a frozen Rock Cornish game hen, you'll never be the same again.</I><BR/><BR/>It sounds like you speak from personal experience!Sharonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14534421623031122881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-88130155044054529022007-12-03T09:59:00.000-08:002007-12-03T09:59:00.000-08:00Dear PJ,I loved the interpretive graphic photo of ...Dear PJ,<BR/><BR/>I loved the interpretive graphic photo of "Via Media"! That is hilarious! However, I assure you that there are definitely some Episcopalians and Anglicans who will not take kindly to that photo and the hearty guffaws that it inspires.<BR/><BR/>P.S. By any chance, did you happen to read my comments on Rob Bowman's article on the Parchment and Pen blog? Because I too made an observation about CT and Fuller. <BR/><BR/>On that comment thread I also asked whether it was technically correct to use the term "cult" to describe Mormonism. One poster said to refrain from using it because it's a loaded term.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-55268317717327940012007-12-03T09:57:00.000-08:002007-12-03T09:57:00.000-08:00Sharon,I have been thinking that the frozen meat c...Sharon,<BR/><BR/>I have been thinking that the frozen meat chub might have outlived its usefulness. <BR/><BR/>I now hereby recommend frozen Rock Cornish game hens fired by slingshot or catapult. If you've ever been hit by a frozen Rock Cornish game hen, you'll never be the same again.Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-65628791314653161222007-12-03T09:56:00.000-08:002007-12-03T09:56:00.000-08:00Unfortunately I know.Unfortunately I know.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03552691836518478095noreply@blogger.com