tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post3667373023451337415..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Book(let) review — Why Our Church Switched to the ESV, by Kevin DeYoung — plus a brief excursus on modern versionsPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger104125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-50231846535909185852015-03-15T23:47:21.241-07:002015-03-15T23:47:21.241-07:00Wow I was researching bible translations and come ...Wow I was researching bible translations and come across this old post.I never hear my southern baptist brethren say anything about other denominations. I thank God for the HCSB. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-68116020956061148342015-03-15T23:42:06.654-07:002015-03-15T23:42:06.654-07:00The HCSB translated John 3:16 better than the ESV....The HCSB translated John 3:16 better than the ESV. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-26316493219536900072011-09-07T23:05:08.010-07:002011-09-07T23:05:08.010-07:00There is hope on the Yahweh/LORD usage, at least i...There is hope on the Yahweh/LORD usage, at least in other languages: The Thai Bible Society just released an excellent--and I hope, universally accepted--revision of the Thai Standard Version. It uses "PRAYAHWEH" consistently, replacing the potentially ambiguous "PRAJAO." <br /><br />I'm using the ESV, and have been for about five years. But, I'm thinking of replacing it with HCSB. ESV seems unnecessarily verbose at times. Indeed, I often find the NKJV to be simpler for my ESL friends to understand. I guess the ESV is trying to be too literate.<br /><br />On the other hand, the CSB seems a bit too quirky. With many friends being borderline KJV-only, the ESV is a lot "safer"... <br /><br />That's my two cents--enjoyed the post and the discussion!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17058171179934064400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-74694632095422294662011-09-01T20:15:14.841-07:002011-09-01T20:15:14.841-07:00Answering my own question: "It was He Whose N...Answering my own question: "It was He Whose Name Shall Not Be Spoken in These Here Parts":<br /><br />http://theresurgence.com/files/pdf/mark_driscoll_2007-01-09_pastoral_reflections_on_bible_translations.pdfBrendthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10887039889675340441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-59999977386941369432011-09-01T17:36:20.687-07:002011-09-01T17:36:20.687-07:00OK- GOT to weigh in here. I have used the NIV sinc...OK- GOT to weigh in here. I have used the NIV since 1987, when God graciously 'throttled' me, and I became Reformed through the reading of the NIV- especially the book of John (along with a little help from mssr's Schaeffer, Sproul, and White). Now I know that the NIV is a dynamic-equivalence translation, and misses the mark in a few places (Rom. 3:25 and Heb. 5:3 come to mind)- and I do use the NASB (and the ESV for personal study and sermon prep. <br /><br />But... it sounds to my American ears that the ESV is just not great English... it sounds stunted and stiff, especially compared with the NIV. <br /><br />I like the ESV ("Like, Dottie- LIKE..."), but when I read or preach publicly, I will probably continue to use the NIV for its clarity and its natural flow of the English language.Tim Bushonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10361674501531239434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-26126006645695688892011-09-01T11:06:13.166-07:002011-09-01T11:06:13.166-07:00+5,000,000 pts to DJP for quoting Alistair Cookie....+5,000,000 pts to DJP for quoting Alistair Cookie.<br /><br />I agree that the ESV is very transparent - my ESV has the thinnest pages of any Bible I own. ;-)<br /><br />My apologies if this was in the comments -- I only Evelyn Wood'd them. Didn't one of the other "big name" Reformed pastors (and his elders) publish a paper a couple years ago about why their church switched? I'm wanting to say Chandler or Piper, with leaning toward Piper given (IIRC) the detailed level of the paper.Brendthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10887039889675340441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-24795773729627763162011-08-31T07:27:04.915-07:002011-08-31T07:27:04.915-07:00Johnny:
My sentiments, too.
While I was still us...Johnny:<br /><br />My sentiments, too.<br /><br />While I was still using a study Bible, I found it frustrating that oftentimes, a verse that I wanted more help on or thought should be explained would have no annotation, while some other obvious verse would get a comment.<br /><br />Then one also gets distracted by reading the comments, which even though they are meant to enhance Scripture, end up taking one's eyes off the inspired text, and onto someone's commentary.<br /><br />Though I haven't seen it myself, I've heard people lament using study Bibles in small groups, etc., because people will sometimes just end up quoting MacArthur or Sproul, rather than thinking through a verse for themselves.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-25795746271821449002011-08-31T07:19:27.599-07:002011-08-31T07:19:27.599-07:00Thomas:
Yes, you got it exactly right: Covenantal...Thomas:<br /><br />Yes, you got it exactly right: Covenantalism is the view of the nature of the Church that is embraced by the old capital-R Reformed churches, which believe that the relationship between God and His people is mediated by a single "Covenant of Grace" from Genesis 3:15 to Revelation.<br /><br />Infants are baptized as a sign of their membership in the covenant community, but there are other implications as well, especially in terms of who one understands to be the people of God, and how one reads biblical history.<br /><br />There are even some Baptists who are Covenant Theologians (though they practice adult baptism!).<br /><br />But what do you mean by BBQ? You mean, you guys have barbeques? That's very un-Reformed!Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-82744370392934303822011-08-31T06:00:48.388-07:002011-08-31T06:00:48.388-07:00Stefan, good summary re: the study Bible. Like you...Stefan, good summary re: the study Bible. Like you, I find study Bibles largely unhelpful. Because of space the comments are just glorified footnotes and cannot really get into the meat of important issues. And they reflect the bias of the author, as you note. One always has to dig in to get behind the biases. <br /><br />My personal Bible is a wide margin NIV. I'm on #2 now. I find making my own notes after study in other sources is best.James Scott Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07641370124346172648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-6786811814300051822011-08-31T05:51:01.901-07:002011-08-31T05:51:01.901-07:00Thanks Stephan.
It seems that I would love it. I’m...Thanks Stephan.<br />It seems that I would love it. I’m a Calvinist and an Ammill-<br />I’m a bit in the dark about what you mean by Covenantalist thou.<br />I most probably know it by some other name. <br />May it be rooted in the rest of the Dutch Reformed kind of stuff, infant Baptism replacing circumcision; you’re born into the covenant type. If it is…<br />How’s it we have a BBQThomas Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08406486510590654502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-61259076815867560782011-08-31T05:41:07.630-07:002011-08-31T05:41:07.630-07:00I can't help but notice that no one here's...I can't help but notice that no one here's made any mention so far of <i>The Amplified Bible</i>, aka the Dane Cook of Scripture translations...LanternBrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14727003028902907286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-20847884180973550812011-08-31T05:30:44.896-07:002011-08-31T05:30:44.896-07:00Wait! There's no discussion of N.T. Wright...Wait! There's no discussion of N.T. Wright's The Kingdom New Testament! Just go and see:<br /><br />http://www.harpercollins.com/books/Kingdom-New-Testament-N-T-Wright/?isbn=9780062064912<br /><br /><i>"This is The Message for a new generation."</i>Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13987985549747283669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-19643187187470465462011-08-31T00:05:10.155-07:002011-08-31T00:05:10.155-07:00Thomas:
Like any study Bible, it represents a par...Thomas:<br /><br />Like any study Bible, it represents a particular theological orientation; in this case, the default, mainstream neo-Reformed theology that has recently become prevalent here in North America, which is:<br /><br />(a) Calvinistic regarding salvation (versus Arminian);<br />(b) Covenantalist regarding redemptive history (versus Dispensational);<br />(c) Ammillennial regarding eschatology (versus Premillennial).<br /><br />The commenters on this blog represent a range of beliefs that are (a) broadly Calvinistic, but Arminian Johnny keeps everyone else on their toes.<br /><br />As for (b) and (c), this is not the place to discuss their merits or demerits (so as not to open up a theological vortex), but it's not a package deal, and while there are some who are (a), (b), and/or (c), there are others who are (a) but not (b) and/or (c). Affirming the one does not necessarily require embracing the other two.<br /><br />Anyhow, the ESV Study Bible is probably one of the best English-language study Bibles and has lots of great resources, but one should read it in the same way as any other study Bible. It's best just to be mindful of the orientation of the contributors—whether one agrees with their interpretive assumptions or not—and read the material in light of that.<br /><br />For myself, I'm just a layman schlub, but I stopped reading a study Bible several years ago and stick to plain ESV (with cross-references, which are invaluable!), while turning to books, online resources, free software, and classes at my church for interpretive support.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-8270375293149978012011-08-31T00:01:18.037-07:002011-08-31T00:01:18.037-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-74322364695537321132011-08-30T23:39:36.995-07:002011-08-30T23:39:36.995-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-38489965414141382872011-08-30T22:06:46.434-07:002011-08-30T22:06:46.434-07:00I was considering purchasing the ESV Study Bible.
...I was considering purchasing the ESV Study Bible.<br />Johnny Dial/DJP what is its problem?Thomas Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08406486510590654502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-57783238536553099952011-08-30T21:44:51.507-07:002011-08-30T21:44:51.507-07:00...In all seriousness though, I use the NRSV for s......In all seriousness though, I use the NRSV for sermon prep and the NIV 2011 for preaching and personal devotions. From time to time I like the NLT, particularly for narratives.<br /><br />I actually love the HCSB though, but unfortunately it's never caught on in New Zealand, probably because we don't have any Southern Baptists (though we are about as far south as it gets). <br /><br />I know this is red meat to a crowd like this, but I just don't trust a translation with as narrow a theological bias as the ESV. It was definitely a marketing success though, I'll give it that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-75144138575826557292011-08-30T21:01:23.955-07:002011-08-30T21:01:23.955-07:00As an aside, it truly amazes me how much emotion t...As an aside, it truly amazes me how much emotion this topic gins up in some people. The Christian organization for which I work occasionally gets some hostile letters or phone calls from people who arre incensed that we use NASB 95 and not the KJV. Not quite sure whether Ruckman or Riplinger are siccing them on us, but they really can get quite hostile. They're almost as bad as some Church of Christ types from Tennessee who want to know if we're using the "correct" salvation formula. If so, they'll support us gladly. I have to resist the temptation to respond with a tome.Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-10465250194755626192011-08-30T20:51:08.318-07:002011-08-30T20:51:08.318-07:00Frank,
My comment earlier was supposed to be addr...Frank,<br /><br />My comment earlier was supposed to be addressed to you (not Phil), but somewhere between reading your response and typing my own, my brain took a major detour. I apologize for the error. (I just noticed it now!)Matt Aznoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01886592758527878686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-61953962647768698032011-08-30T20:40:49.692-07:002011-08-30T20:40:49.692-07:00The New International Targum. Now that's funny...The New International Targum. Now that's funny.mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00944721261850361610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-78982686526115779812011-08-30T20:35:04.759-07:002011-08-30T20:35:04.759-07:00Doug,
You can read the notes from the NET Bible o...Doug,<br /><br />You can read the notes from the NET Bible online that has a pretty good writeup on the two ways this passage is commonly interpreted (see footnotes 26 and 29).<br /><br />http://net.bible.org/#!bible/1+Corinthians+7:36<br /><br />The ESV took option #2. The NET Bible apparently decided to stay neutral on this one.Matt Aznoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01886592758527878686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-10947131555764093352011-08-30T20:16:25.502-07:002011-08-30T20:16:25.502-07:00First the Text Message Bible and now Biblical Triv...First the Text Message Bible and now Biblical Trivial Pursuit, The Message edition. All these new product ideas in one thread!Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-19519911111489809112011-08-30T20:09:13.288-07:002011-08-30T20:09:13.288-07:00The Message is occasionally useful. I have a few f...The Message is occasionally useful. I have a few friends who are missionaries in countries where they tend to monitor the communications of foreigners. So when you want to use scripture in correspondence with them, you quote The Message, because it doesn't tend to get flagged as scripture. Also, if you're bored after a Bible study, you can read well-known passages from The Message, and see how long it takes people to figure out which passage it's supposed to be.trogdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452996348717802065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-85161422841411194042011-08-30T18:05:49.130-07:002011-08-30T18:05:49.130-07:00One translation choice in the ESV that makes me cr...One translation choice in the ESV that makes me cringe every time is "reclining at table" as in "as Jesus reclined at table..." (Mt. 9:10 and elsewhere). Sounds like a yoga pose.greglonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05514850772020363684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-63272359369838775512011-08-30T17:35:12.849-07:002011-08-30T17:35:12.849-07:00Does anyone have an answer why the ESV translated ...Does anyone have an answer why the ESV translated parthenos in 1Cor7 as betrothed?Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11524915737625412717noreply@blogger.com