tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post3751531578246154844..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Proverbial perspectives at the year's turnPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-28503055376429338012010-01-06T06:08:40.742-08:002010-01-06T06:08:40.742-08:00If one lacked for reasons to be discouraged about ...If one lacked for reasons to be discouraged about the current church scene, this would do it: the hidebound, traditionalistic nonsense that burbles up when one affirms the Bible's insistence on its own sufficiency.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-2927700776014741272010-01-02T11:39:03.752-08:002010-01-02T11:39:03.752-08:00Here's my attempt to deal with Matthew 6:24-34...Here's my attempt to deal with Matthew 6:24-34. Jesus is right. So is Solomon, and all of God's Word.<br /><br />Did you have another question about the post?DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-47689597142888207952010-01-02T09:42:16.158-08:002010-01-02T09:42:16.158-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.trogdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452996348717802065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-28996537926629292010-01-02T09:29:25.712-08:002010-01-02T09:29:25.712-08:00First, I would have liked to see your analysis att...First, I would have liked to see your analysis attempt to deal with Matthew 6:24-34. Also, there is an ethnocentric issue here, as the preoccupation with planning is far greater in modern western cultures than they are in other times and places, where people are much less likely to have the idea that they have very much control over their lives or circumstances, where lives do not move according to schedules (except for very rudimentary agricultural ones), and even their very concept of time is different. And yes, the culture that produced the Bible - one where wars, plagues, droughts, famines, etc. were very capable of altering best laid plans - is a lot closer to those than it is to our modern, technologically driven American culture. (Keep in mind: the very reason why paganism, animism and spiritism were such a snare to those in Biblical times was the FALSE promise of being able to impose a spiritual system of control over uncertain and chaotic lives. But where those cultures relied on the false gods of heathen religions, our culture has its own idols: our economic, political, military and technological systems. And yes, Christians are very much wedded to those. Witness the ferocious anger of so many Christians at Obama's threats to change our economic, military and cultural traditions. And yes, there was similar anger directed at George W. Bush. <br /><br />A classic example is the "conspiracy theory" stuff. Rather than admitting the temporary, precarious nature of things, it is far more easier for one group of Christians with a foot in this world to believe that Obama is weakening our economy and throwing open the door to terrorists on purpose. And on the other hand, Christians of a different political stripe would rather believe that George Bush allowed black people to die in New Orleans because of some alleged racial animus rather than admit that there is only so much a government can do when a historic hurricane like Katrina strikes such a vulnerable area. While people may have legitimate grievances with the ideology and competence of Bush and Obama, the main point is how "the American way of life" is idolatry and how so many American Christians are heavily steeped in it.<br /><br />Well, most of the Christians in the world cannot afford such delusions, because most Christians now live in the third world, with daily lives not much different from those who lived in Israel at the time of Jesus Christ. And while those Christians still have to deal with the very strong temptations of their traditional local primitive religions - especially when they are syncretized with Christianity - they do not have to deal with the temptations associated with Blackberries and daily planners and our own Tower of Babel-esque myths that we have so much power, influence and control within our own borders and exert it throughout the world.<br /><br />Worldliness is a huge enemy, and in order to prevent being esnared by it, Matthew 6:24-34 and Romans 12:1-2 are vital. So many of us Christians view "worldliness" as listening to rock music or watching R-rated movies (or, as it were, patronizing "Christianized" versions of those forms of entertainment), but it really goes much further and deeper than that into a person's entire values and worldview.<br />http://healtheland.wordpress.comhealthelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02597322285407724205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-34612175114370327412010-01-02T06:12:08.316-08:002010-01-02T06:12:08.316-08:00Everyone is expected to read and abide by the rul...Everyone is expected to read and abide by the rules posted in the home page. Anyone who finds himself unable or unwilling (for instance) to read and interact with the actual contents of the actual posts on this actual site should ask himself whether it's a good stewardship of his time to come, ignore content, and attempt to derail. Persist, and (as the rules say), one will find that decision made for him permanently.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-15795512693644892342010-01-01T18:40:16.441-08:002010-01-01T18:40:16.441-08:00Absolutely.
(Sorry.)Absolutely.<br /><br />(Sorry.)DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-44063778182834330632010-01-01T18:03:51.445-08:002010-01-01T18:03:51.445-08:00Dan, I recently had someone give me a copy of Andr...Dan, I recently had someone give me a copy of Andrew Murray's "Absolute Surrender." Haven't read it yet. Should I be expecting weird things?Mike Riccardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06748453197783538367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-59498453531549983652010-01-01T17:25:12.310-08:002010-01-01T17:25:12.310-08:00He's LDS, he must be.He's <strong>LDS</strong>, he must be.Bobby Growhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06831009618873548948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-46207511065583115842010-01-01T17:20:52.889-08:002010-01-01T17:20:52.889-08:00Hey Zee,
Where are you coming from, if you don...Hey Zee,<br /><br />Where are you coming from, if you don't mind me asking? Are you being sarcastic?donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-20347295627344141082010-01-01T16:05:31.070-08:002010-01-01T16:05:31.070-08:00After much contemplative prayer and emptying of my...After much contemplative prayer and emptying of my mind of all rationality in order to focus on the indwelling presence of God, I was inerrantly able to read DJP and to prophetically see that he was right! ;) <br /><br />I now know that I clicked on the right link, at the right time, so that I now know the Mind of Chist in choosing the only post that I could read right now! <br /><br />How wonderful and awe inspiring it is to be sooo right! Wait...Was that a train whistle I just heard???<br /> ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-70340293683822153022010-01-01T15:25:49.057-08:002010-01-01T15:25:49.057-08:00Reverse psychology doesn't work on me, Ernest....Reverse psychology doesn't work on me, Ernest.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-2243818158583103312010-01-01T14:21:33.083-08:002010-01-01T14:21:33.083-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06574450447917870541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-55324808000474770142010-01-01T10:40:59.406-08:002010-01-01T10:40:59.406-08:00Kind of reminds me of a line that used to sit on m...Kind of reminds me of a line that used to sit on my insurance agent's desk many years ago. "Do something. Lead, follow, or get out of the way."Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-61114239176254464212010-01-01T08:59:33.012-08:002010-01-01T08:59:33.012-08:00Andrew Murray wasn't much different, if you ta...Andrew Murray wasn't much different, if you take him seriously. Didn't he antedate Nee?DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-16224071647754230382010-01-01T08:50:34.358-08:002010-01-01T08:50:34.358-08:00Before Blackaby was Watchman Nee, who taught a sim...Before Blackaby was Watchman Nee, who taught a similar "holy passivity". I once had a friend who studied Nee. For awhile he believed he needed be moved to individually put on each sock and shoe in the morning. Walking with him some days was interesting...Mark B. Hansonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15942591774072214556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-73582333100514402102010-01-01T07:18:33.592-08:002010-01-01T07:18:33.592-08:00Sandman, that's a moving testimony. I received...Sandman, that's a moving testimony. I received several others similarly when I wrote those articles about the Blackabys' false teaching. It's alarming that such harmful, enslaving doctrine has been tolerated, let alone encouraged.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-83174972686260415332010-01-01T07:17:33.851-08:002010-01-01T07:17:33.851-08:00No Gordon, you're undervaluing the verses'...No Gordon, you're undervaluing the verses' teaching.<br /><br />Proverbs 16:1 expressly says that the arrangements made by the heart <i>belong to</i> man. They are his, his proper domain and God-given responsibility. It's common, plain, not ambiguous. To take an opposite, the Hebrew's similar to 31:4, where Lemuel's mom says "It <i>is not for kings</i>, O Lemuel, it is <i>not for kings</i> to drink wine, or for rulers to take strong drink...." She is saying that getting drunk <i>is not</i> proper to kings, as 16:1 says intelligent planning <i>is</i> proper and God-ordained for mankind.<br /><br />As to 16:9, if you want to insist that Solomon isn't saying that it is a good thing that man intelligently plans his way (A), you must also say that he isn't saying that it is a good thing that Yahweh establishes his steps (B).DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-29927093179413940682010-01-01T06:38:13.440-08:002010-01-01T06:38:13.440-08:00SandMan said:
It was downright paralyzing. I felt ...SandMan said:<br /><i>It was downright paralyzing. I felt like any decision I made was going to be the wrong one and that I would "miss God's perfect plan for my life." It sounds a little funny to me now, but at the time it really hurt. I was scared and miserable.</i><br /><br /> That sounds like my experience. Only I didn't learn it from a study Bible. I just had the idea that God accepts believers on "trial" and carefully measures our level of obedience in order to determine whether we get to stay. <br /><br /> I just thought that's the way it's supposed to be. And I was terrified that God was angrily watching, just waiting to stomp on me for misunderstanding something.<br /><br />It may well be connected with the fact that I often neglected to extend an attitude of mercy toward other professing believers who I was pretty sure were wrong about something. Pharasaical judgmentalism has a nasty way of coming back to bite. :oS Being willing to overlook human imperfection (as opposed to blatant sin) in others is quite freeing to the soul.<br /><br />Anyway, I'm glad for you that the Lord placed you in a position to better grasp the truth. <br /><br />HeatherCraig and Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11962442989291080899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-76156354857672583892010-01-01T04:56:51.208-08:002010-01-01T04:56:51.208-08:00Some very liberating truths. Thanks.
When I was ...Some very liberating truths. Thanks.<br /><br />When I was in college, and very inexperienced as a Christian, my favorite dear christian aunt put me onto a Blackaby Bible study workbook thing. I dove in for all I was worth and emerged more confused than ever. I was looking for cosmic signs, leaves blowing on trees, fleeces... you name it. <br /><br />It was downright paralyzing. I felt like any decision I made was going to be the wrong one and that I would "miss God's perfect plan for my life." It sounds a little funny to me now, but at the time it really hurt. I was scared and miserable. <br /><br />God set me free from fear when He providentially brought circumstances that moved me to a new church; one which explained the doctrines of grace, and God's sovereignty in all things. What a relief!<br /><br />How great is our God that He offers us liberty to make choices, but holds all power to Himself to overrule and intervene when He sees fit.<br /><br />Happy New Year, Ya'll!SandManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04003338922805271638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-8748650199649615302010-01-01T02:04:58.322-08:002010-01-01T02:04:58.322-08:00Do either Proverbs 16:1 or 16:9 place an imperativ...Do either Proverbs 16:1 or 16:9 place an imperative on us to make plans I wouldn't have thought so. They both observe that we make plans, but whether this is a good, bad or indifferent thing is not stated—only (in the second half of each verse) that God causes to happen whatever he wants to happen anyway.<br /><br />So I would rather see both verses as discouraging us from trusting in our plans, and looking to God's sovereignty instead.<br /><br />I think that's a more Calvinist understanding, too, Dan, you crypto-Arminian. ;-)Gordon Chenghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07588151868151940982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-20436110384422527902009-12-31T23:47:35.581-08:002009-12-31T23:47:35.581-08:00Is that when people stumble around staring at thei...<i>Is that when people stumble around staring at their Blackberry?</i><br /><br />LOL! Maybe. Can they be programmed as day planners?<br /><br /><br /><br />So Dan, is Blackabbean slavery that disorder that causes sufferers to agonize in the supermarket aisle over which can of beans to buy?<br /><br />I think I might occasionally experience that sort of thing. <br /><br />Happy New Year, guys.<br /><br />HeatherCraig and Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11962442989291080899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-70969950765984668362009-12-31T17:32:49.284-08:002009-12-31T17:32:49.284-08:00Scott - Why did you cite Proverbs 16:31 when you t...Scott - <i>Why did you cite Proverbs 16:31 when you talked about God's responsibility to plot the course and outcome of our (man's) plans? </i><br /><br />Because sometimes I'm an idiot. I meant v. 33, and will fix it. Sorry, and thanks!DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-38250682202212548432009-12-31T16:35:21.706-08:002009-12-31T16:35:21.706-08:00You know Dan, if you don't stop writing these ...You know Dan, if you don't stop writing these posts, I'll have no more excuses to think that I have <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow%E2%80%93Washington_hotline" rel="nofollow">red phone</a> to the Almighty. Why do you cause me such pain? <br /><br />But seriously another solid post on planning and discernment. Your posts were one of many things that convinced me of the futility and foolishness of the Blackabbean slavery. <br /><br />Quick question though: Why did you cite Proverbs 16:31 when you talked about God's responsibility to plot the course and outcome of our (man's) plans? I'm not seeing how it fits. <br /><br />wv: disessev - what the will of God sounds like through his still, small voiceScothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16573138499478048502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-43067059082898757782009-12-31T14:22:07.677-08:002009-12-31T14:22:07.677-08:00Dan,
If you don't mind, let me share a great ...<strong>Dan</strong>,<br /><br />If you don't mind, let me share a great quote from TF Torrance (actually Robert Walker summarizing TF's thought) on Christ and the Spirit (and the Father) which has directly to do with illumination and more:<br /><br /><em>The role of the Spirit is to witness to Christ, to remind the disciples and through them the church of all that Jesus had told them, to declare him to them and to guide them into all his truth. The Spirit does not speak of himself but of Christ and opens the minds and hearts of humanity to receive him. The Spirit of God is God in his ability to be present to the creature and to open up the creaturely mind and heart to know God Himself in his revelation in Christ. The Spirit reveals Christ and opens up the creature to know and receive him.<br /><br />This does not mean however that Christ is not equally present in all that the Spirit does. Just as 'God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself' so Jesus Christ is himself present in the work of the Spirit. In revelation, as in creation, atonement and redemption, Father, Son and Spirit are all inseparably involved. (Thomas F. Torrance, ed. Robert T. Walker, "Atonement," lvi)</em><br /><br />This is what I was getting at with my illumination point --- that is to point out the inseparability of Christ from the Spirit (and vice versa) in that work. I think that, analogically, this also implies upon "doing the will of God." It is the Spirit who creates the space for us to "live out" of the will of God in Christ; for it is the same Spirit who "filled the Son" to submit to the will of the Father first. There is an intimacy amongst the Father, Son, and Spirit that we are now apart of; which then means that how "our" plans work out are always being reorientated by this relationship we truly share with the Father, through the Son, by the Spirit. We have the parameters of God's will laid out in the scriptures and lived out through the Son; how that looks in our lives depends on sensitivity to the Spirit and then living out of Christ's spirit-filled response for us. I suppose marriage is the best analogy here. Doing the will of our spouse is often a moment by moment experience. "Our plans" morphe to theirs, and vice versa (when we are being sensitive and loving). So as the dynamics of life unfold, often our plans unfold in a way that end up looking different than "we had planned" (because there is another person involved, and love puts the "other" first). I think this analogy breaks down, but maybe it helps clarify what I'm "trying" to say about grounding "will of God" thinking in Christ (it must be in terms of relationship and love [biblically understood]).<br /><br />Hope this makes sense . . .Bobby Growhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06831009618873548948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-18840884720276645082009-12-31T13:13:25.557-08:002009-12-31T13:13:25.557-08:00"However, at the same time, all our plans mus..."However, at the same time, all our plans must be made in pencil, for we are warned:<br /><br /> Do not boast about tomorrow,<br /> for you do not know what a day may bring."<br /><br />That's an important truth. Have been embarrassed more than a few times writing things in ink.<br /><br />But, in the next life we will be free of all this awkwardly frustrating living by faith, but I shall "Endeavor to persevere". A quote from one of my favorite Westerns.<br /><br />Thanks for the good word. Have a Happy New Year!donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.com