tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post4675059018163956292..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Jesus' "dumb question" that wasn't (and isn't)Phil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-49333672322451296812008-01-14T02:37:00.000-08:002008-01-14T02:37:00.000-08:00Do I really want to be healed?Some days, I do.Most...Do I really want to be healed?<BR/><BR/>Some days, I do.<BR/>Most days I don't.<BR/>Most days, I just want to be forgiven. <BR/><BR/>No more resisting the devil.<BR/>No more contending for the gospel.<BR/>No more running the race.<BR/>No body buffeting or character building.<BR/><BR/>Instant new creation. Just add water and the Spirit.<BR/><BR/>This is wrong.<BR/>I know.<BR/>Yes, heal me please before I change my mind.danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10498089055803005442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-26233344241425722332008-01-09T10:17:00.000-08:002008-01-09T10:17:00.000-08:00An excellent exposition/application of these verse...An excellent exposition/application of these verses. Thanks.The Interfacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05253399449564365231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-81264721907560727292008-01-09T03:35:00.000-08:002008-01-09T03:35:00.000-08:00What an excellent article... It's something we don...What an excellent article... It's something we don't actually think about or realise, though I'm sure that there is ample evidence! It's so true: People love their misery even if they don't appear to. And as Christians, Jesus question really strikes a sensitive chord with our pet sins that keep us from growing into healthy, fully-formed people of God (Gal. 4:19). <BR/><BR/>Many thanks for these words!Nik Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16477241704969602545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80769816301444410702008-01-09T01:47:00.000-08:002008-01-09T01:47:00.000-08:00Dan,What a great and engaging post. I have never v...Dan,<BR/>What a great and engaging post. I have never ventured to see it that way,and i must tell you: it hit home.<BR/><BR/>Apart from thinking of myself, i see this kind of thing in christian-agnostic-selfmadegod-truthseeker<BR/>-atheist of the postmodern. They really "seek truth" but just kind find it. And they run to christian blogs and have everybody know about it, so we feel pity and that helps stroking their egos.<BR/><BR/>Excellent point on the sexual sins. That is really food for thought. I know a many a man that struggles with this.<BR/><BR/>I guess there we reach this borderline between being defeated and living victorious in Christ. It is a line that still baffles me: you can go too much on either side and be wrong.<BR/><BR/>"<I>There are many religious impostors who prefer tearing open their spiritual wounds to the first passer-by, and hugging their grievance, to being made into robust men upon whom the burden of responsibility will immediately fall.</I>" ... ouch!<BR/><BR/>Thanks again. Keep those coming!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01748063805455542759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-7568005706047695182008-01-08T20:41:00.000-08:002008-01-08T20:41:00.000-08:00Great post, Dan, as always. Speaking from persona...Great post, Dan, as always. Speaking from personal experience, the identity of a "Noble Sufferer" can be really appealing to one's ego, and it took some C.S. Lewis (and some good friends) to convict me of that a while ago.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes those destructive identities can be imposed on you by well-meaning Christians who simply find it <I>unbelievable</I> that you struggle with whatever sin you struggle with, especially if they consider it a "major sin."<BR/><BR/>That kind of attention can be comforting, and it's always great to have support, but lines have to be drawn before destructive identities can be made. The best counter-measure, of course, is to remind them (and yourself) that all sins are equal in God's eyes, and that Christ's healing is the ultimate leveler. The buck always stops with you, or at least that's what I've learned.<BR/><BR/>Keep up the good work! Not that you need my encouragement, of course.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15232291579882899350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-66845097253579246182008-01-08T17:58:00.000-08:002008-01-08T17:58:00.000-08:00If we go to this one:Matthew 19:16-30what do we ha...If we go to this one:<BR/><A HREF="http://" REL="nofollow">Matthew 19:16-30</A>what do we have?<BR/><BR/>Presupposing the same thing, that the benefit is to himself, then dramatic change in conditions challenges the status quo. The rich young ruler is not dissatisfied with what is, that is evident, yet is self-seeking, looking to add avantage. Presuppose that in Jesus' assessment (knowing what is in the heart of man) that behind the dialogue is this question: "Really?" The RYR's response is similar to the cripple, and infact they are both "crippled" by impossibility. To paraphrase the RYR: "I'm really bubbly spiritually, when there's opportunity, but no one has ever told me the secret to eternal life." Jesus' unspoken response, "Really, do you really want to know the secret?" couched in "Go sell all you have and give to the poor." (For he knew, that even if the RYR was able to, he would not and as with the crip it was the conditions of sin that were preventing him.)<BR/><BR/>I think that Jesus' response is in the least potential willingness to bring the RYR into the kingdom, and we do not know just what happened after this, but Jesus goes on with the disciples about riches. And they perceive correctly that they too are rich and respond: "Then who..." His answer is in kind, "What is impossible with man is possible with God."<BR/><BR/>We learn more than just man's depravity, we learn of Christ's compassion, for even with the case of the rich young ruler, Christ's instruction to his disciples is that just so, even if the man is unwilling to remove himself from his complacency and full embrace of sin, God is not, according to his grace, willing that all should remain in it.Strong Towerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13834108238546908018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-18213563625056974632008-01-08T17:45:00.000-08:002008-01-08T17:45:00.000-08:00Much as you and I might recoil from another's stat...<I>Much as you and I might recoil from another's state in life, that person might not share our revulsion. One can grow to identify with a condition, to find meaning and individuality and significance in something that of itself offers nothing desirable whatever. Whether it be a natural handicap or a totally different weakness, failing, misery, affliction or sin, we can come to think of ourselves as Noble Sufferers, as Tragic Victims, as Tormented Souls. So (pathetically and unhealthily) rewarding is this identification, that we unknowingly have no real desire to be parted from our badge of uniqueness, our gimmick, our shtick.<BR/><BR/>This is particularly the case in our American culture, where we have come to prize, seek out, cultivate, and luxuriate in the status of victimhood.</I><BR/><BR/>Excellent point Dan.candyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06088593538648596769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-44286562543476294542008-01-08T17:20:00.000-08:002008-01-08T17:20:00.000-08:00..."Each according to his [or her] own particular ......"Each according to <I>his</I> [or her] own particular weaknesses," that is.<BR/><BR/>(Wouldn't want Dan to point out my faulty pronoun agreement before I caught it myself....)Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-21905485534206998362008-01-08T17:15:00.000-08:002008-01-08T17:15:00.000-08:00Dac:Of course you are quite right that we should a...Dac:<BR/><BR/>Of course you are quite right that we should always check ourselves when reading Scripture, to make sure that we are not reading more into it than is there.<BR/><BR/>As I read Dan's post, my first reaction was, "What!?"—and I agree he's extrapolating a lot more from the text than it would appear to support<BR/><BR/>But by the end of his post, I was convicted—because he ended up teaching us not on victimhood (which is really only one particular besetting sin), but on the besetting sins that we all cling to, each according to our own particular weaknesses.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-38407724275070952232008-01-08T16:53:00.000-08:002008-01-08T16:53:00.000-08:00Wow. Just...wow. This is something I've thought ...Wow. Just...wow. This is something I've thought a lot about in my own life but I've never seen it expressed as well as this. I've got a lot of praying and thinking to do. Thanks very much, Dan.Christopher Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16295360604446048139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51672852170200059322008-01-08T16:48:00.000-08:002008-01-08T16:48:00.000-08:00stratagem said...I don't know... I think the Emerg...stratagem said...<BR/><BR/>I don't know... I think the Emerg*** Jesus would have said something like, "Please follow me! I need you! You are a great person..."<BR/><BR/>Strat,<BR/>Maybe he just put him on disability and called it good. Hath...?<BR/>;-)ALL FOR ONCE/ ONCE FOR ALLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04509322860189128685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-67391751943490787062008-01-08T15:31:00.000-08:002008-01-08T15:31:00.000-08:00Well said, brother Dan. This particular bent of hu...Well said, brother Dan. This particular bent of humans to cling to that which is destroying them has always seemed so odd to me. I see it all the time working with addicts, alcoholics, etc in rescue mission ministry. It's an identity issue at root, I think. If my whole self has been tied up in being a drug addict, a porn addict, a lame beggar, whatever - then being healed by the Healer menas that I am no longer who I was, He Himself declares me to be someone new. With a new nature, new expectations and accountabilites to live out my new identity, etc. Radical change, that most people aren't prepared for.<BR/><BR/>Reminds me of the guy in Lewis' The Great Divorce who has such a hard time separating himself from the lizard that enslaves him. Also reminds me of a crusty old executive I used to work with. One of his favorite sayings was "Don't bring me good news, I can't fix that!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-7162292561303415382008-01-08T15:30:00.000-08:002008-01-08T15:30:00.000-08:00Stefen - I agree the assumption is reasonable....b...Stefen - I agree the assumption is reasonable....but with so little to go on, it is an assumption based on our perceptions and experiences, not based on the text of the bible. As such any number of assumptions may be reasonable, and there is no way of saying which one is correct.<BR/><BR/>Tying John 5 into a message about victimhood is thin. We are doing nothing than making unsupported assumptions about Jesus's motivation and intent.<BR/><BR/>Which is not to say Dan is wrong about victimhood and it's impacts. I agree with him. But again, that is based on my personal experience and observations.David A. Carlsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00465387359523299616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-82087487783642582892008-01-08T14:11:00.000-08:002008-01-08T14:11:00.000-08:00Dac:Good points. On the other hand, since as Scri...Dac:<BR/><BR/>Good points. On the other hand, since as Scripture says, he didn't know who Jesus was at the time, all the more reason why he might have responded with doubt and incredulity!<BR/><BR/>Pastorbrian:<BR/><BR/>That could have come out of the mouth of practically any Finneyite Arminian.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-28144658325023631402008-01-08T13:41:00.000-08:002008-01-08T13:41:00.000-08:00good one stratagem, and I might add...Jesus will a...good one stratagem, and I might add...<BR/>Jesus will also follow you and buy your groceries for you. All you have to do is ASK!pastorbrianculverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07325788116682801754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-17166947378785244112008-01-08T13:40:00.000-08:002008-01-08T13:40:00.000-08:00Believe me, Dan..(otherwise known as "Jael" Philli...Believe me, Dan..(otherwise known as "Jael" Phillips)<BR/><BR/>This hits close to home and there are a few in my own family to whom I'd love to show this. I also think of some characters C.S. Lewis mentioned in "The Screwtape Letters."Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-46676467386003823742008-01-08T13:38:00.000-08:002008-01-08T13:38:00.000-08:00I don't know... I think the Emerg*** Jesus would h...I don't know... I think the Emerg*** Jesus would have said something like, "Please follow me! I need you! You are a great person and you won't need to change one bit. If you don't want to follow me, I'll follow you around and do things your way, to boot!"Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-54455738172884612202008-01-08T13:28:00.000-08:002008-01-08T13:28:00.000-08:00had Jesus said, "Follow Me?" it seems that it woul...had Jesus said, "Follow Me?" it seems that it would have been the question that is posed by the EM's. Luckily, it is not a question but an offer with a promise! thanks for the post!pastorbrianculverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07325788116682801754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-76458766209070815692008-01-08T13:13:00.000-08:002008-01-08T13:13:00.000-08:00stefanI agree it is interesting that he did say ye...stefan<BR/><BR/>I agree it is interesting that he did say yes, but yet again it is supposition as to intent/motivation. We get "just the facts" - what happened.<BR/><BR/>Clearly he did not who Jesus was when he healed him - it was not until Jesus came back that he knew who had healed him. When he said Yes, he did not know who was asking the question. You can make the assumption that he was at the pool as a repentant person. That would be the "charitable" way of interpreting this passage<BR/><BR/>5:12 They asked him, “Who is the man who said to you, ‘Pick up your mat and walk’?” 5:13 But the man who had been healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had slipped out, since there was a crowd in that place. (Dan's Favorite Translation ;)<BR/><BR/>It's hard to assign a lot of motivation to the man at the pool when he did not know who he was talking to when he was asked the question. <BR/><BR/>Question asked, Question answered. No background on Jesus's motivation, no background on the man's motivationDavid A. Carlsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00465387359523299616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-30658639562046944812008-01-08T12:55:00.000-08:002008-01-08T12:55:00.000-08:00Wow, wonderful article Dan. Thank you. That is a...Wow, wonderful article Dan. Thank you. That is all there is to say.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14626478264153002508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-90172934500034544172008-01-08T12:29:00.000-08:002008-01-08T12:29:00.000-08:00Thank you for these thoughtful words, Dan. We all...Thank you for these thoughtful words, Dan. We all probably have at least one corner of our lives that ought to subject itself to the healing power of Christ...but our sin has veiled us from him, crippling us in some way, great or small. I appreciate the question Jesus asks, and I will direct it at those corners of my life I've yet to submit to his Lordship.the postmortemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06374570360503910669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-71254321639835151282008-01-08T11:31:00.000-08:002008-01-08T11:31:00.000-08:00@DJPStrong finish after the Robin Trower comment. ...@DJP<BR/><BR/>Strong finish after the Robin Trower comment. Are Pyro's required to submit to routine physicals?<BR/><BR/>Many choose their infirmities over Jesus. Once He loses pole position that's a no-no.ALL FOR ONCE/ ONCE FOR ALLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04509322860189128685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-61757972555028752672008-01-08T11:25:00.000-08:002008-01-08T11:25:00.000-08:00Profound insight. Thanks.Profound insight. Thanks.Jordanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17242558593055345205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-17621153912838442812008-01-08T11:23:00.000-08:002008-01-08T11:23:00.000-08:00Dac:What strikes me is that the man does not reply...Dac:<BR/><BR/>What strikes me is that the man does not reply doubtfully to Jesus, when Jesus asks if he wants to be healed.<BR/><BR/>We see so many stories of men and women chosen by God, who initially respond to him with doubt or incredulity—Sarah (correct me if my memory's faulty), Moses, Gideon, Zechariah (John the Baptist's father). Not to mention all the other stories of doubting God's promises or sufficiency, such as David with his census, or all the sojourners in the Wilderness except for Joshua and Caleb.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, there are those who respond to His call unquestioningly—Abraham and Peter, for example (though both were not above the human sin condition in other episodes in their lives). Or Rahab and Ruth, both ancestors of Jesus.<BR/><BR/>This man <I>didn't</I> respond by saying, for example, "Hah! <I>You</I> can heal <I>me?</I> What can <I>you</I> do? I'll get into this pool eventually, and <I>then</I> I'll be healed." Implicitly, that he responded without skepticism seems to me to be evidence of a repentant heart—or perhaps I should say, a heart made ready for repentance by God.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-85545473948069377222008-01-08T11:18:00.000-08:002008-01-08T11:18:00.000-08:00Awesome stuff!Thanks Phil.......er.......Dan =]Awesome stuff!<BR/><BR/>Thanks Phil.......er.......Dan =]Drummer Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07223968061470574508noreply@blogger.com