tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post4964381126308686777..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Does "faith" matter?Phil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger60125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33807204456278772682009-04-23T12:14:00.000-07:002009-04-23T12:14:00.000-07:00Great post. I would add that it's not a call to do...Great post. I would add that it's not a call to do something we <B>have to</B> do, but rather something we <B>can't help but to</B> do.<br /><br />I know people who are very tall. They have to duck when they walk through doors lest they bump their head. I know people of relatively normal size who can't help but to not bump their head when they walk through the door.<br /><br />For the tall people, they would like to not have to duck. For the short people, they just walk through normally without worry.<br /><br />When you phrase righteousness as something we do rather than what we want to do, this speaks to those vestiges of sin that have not been mortified. Rather, the positive is to invoke righteousness as that which the faithful desire by faith.<br /><br />As it is, I don't want to sin and when I do, I want to mortify it because I detest my own sin. This is the attitude of the faithful and even those who walk in the flesh can tell the difference in whether I'm doing what I want to do or not.<br /><br />As an example, there's one kind of man who cusses worse than a drunken sailor: a drunken Marine. And such I was. Now, I neither get drunk nor cuss. It's language I don't even like to hear anymore. However, because of my past I can handle hearing someone who cusses because he has no compulsion to do otherwise. Many of the men in the plant here cuss on a regular basis. I don't. But I carry myself with such a spiritual freedom from this dishonoring behavior that they are compelled <I>without my asking</I> to clean up their language when I enter the room. I don't preach to them and I don't condemn them. They know they can come to me if they have any spiritual need or theological question and I will deal graciously with them. And some do come to me. But I don't sweat the way I act. It's natural for me to bear the Spirit of God visibly by faith and I suggest it's natural for my fellow Christians to do the same. If you desire righteousness, you shall have the desire of your heart.<br /><br />So, this faith goes beyond the type of faith in the example of the bank robber. There, Stewart's faith equated to what he believed to be true in that he was unaware of the uncertainty of the information that it was March 30 rather than April 1 (although one can rob a bank just as easily on April 1). Rather, our faith is certain in that we have the Holy Spirit and the authority of Christ no matter what our situation otherwise and he has made himself known to us.Jim Pembertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01446388434272680014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-61988384876905433112009-04-17T11:39:00.000-07:002009-04-17T11:39:00.000-07:00Greg,
I may have missed it, but I haven't seen an...Greg,<br /><br />I may have missed it, but I haven't seen anyone respond to your question (I admit that watching folks hack away at straw piles wearing "tulip" t-shirts was an amusing distraction). I'll take a quick shot at it while I still have a little bit of a lunch break left.<br /><br />As to the initial question on James, the interpretation he's offering is just nonsensical with 1:21 and 5:20 (save your souls = save from physical harm? huh?), would be extremely odd and forced for 2:14 and 4:12, and is only really conceivable for 5:15.<br /><br />Besides, if that view was true (which it isn't), at best it amounts to a worthless truism. Doing harmful things brings harmful consequences. Well, duh. Is this really in dispute? Was it ever? Are we to believe that James wrote his book to challenge the heresy that faith in Christ makes one physically invulnerable and impervious to harm? Was there a cult teaching that, say, you could now commit adultery without fear of pregnancy, disease, relational harm or reprisal? The plain reading is that he was writing against empty, effectless 'faith' which leaves its professor as sinful as ever. Which possible perversion of the gospel is it, oh, about ninety-nine billion times more likely that he was writing about?<br /><br />Then you have the rest of the NT at your disposal. You could ask, for example, whether Jesus meant what he said in <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mat%207;&version=47;" REL="nofollow">Matthew 7:15-27</A>. Maybe ask if <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mat%2025:31-46;&version=47;" REL="nofollow">Matthew 25:31-46</A> is talking about final salvation, or if Jesus was just making really, really veiled statements about the harmful consequences of sin here and now. For other examples from Jesus, I'd suggest getting MacArthur's <I>The Gospel According to Jesus</I> (which I'd recommend strongly anyway), although you'll not want to let him know that's where you're getting your examples, due to the convulsions the mention of MacArthur sends easy-believism folk into.<br /><br />Next, you could turn to the various epistles. See if they think Paul was serious in <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%206;&version=47;" REL="nofollow">Romans 6</A>, or <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ephesians%204;&version=47;" REL="nofollow">Ephesians 4</A>, or perhaps ask why the favorite OOC text-proof source for easy-believers suggests we'll be judged by our works in <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%202:6-11;&version=47;" REL="nofollow">Romans 2</A>.<br /><br />Perhaps take a trip to <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=hebrews%203:16-19;&version=47;" REL="nofollow">Hebrews 3:16-19</A>, and ask how it is possible that, if faith does not necessarily produce obedience, the author can talk about how they "rebelled" and "provoked [God]" and "sinned" and "were disobedient", then summarize these things simply as "unbelief". Or maybe compare 3:19 to 4:6, and ask why they were not allowed to enter the rest - was it unbelief or disobedience? 'Coz it sure seems like he uses the terms interchangeably, almost as if one necessarily produces the other. Hmmmm.<br /><br />I suppose you could also ask about <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=jude%203-4;&version=47;" REL="nofollow">Jude 3-4</A>, wondering how the 'just believe it and it doesn't matter how you live!!1!' position isn't turning the grace of God into a license for immorality. But that's not very irenic, I guess. <br /><br />That's what I got for now. Let me know if you need more when I have time later.trogdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452996348717802065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-25848649548254747432009-04-17T06:04:00.000-07:002009-04-17T06:04:00.000-07:00Faith never changes truth. Many people have been s...Faith never changes truth. Many people have been shot by what they truly believed was an unloaded gun. Many people have faith in a lie, which does not change the truth that the lie is a lie.<br /><br />Most of these lies that are recipients of people's faith will result in eternally damnable consequences.Rick Fruehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05879848568892457571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-32300208404095007802009-04-17T05:03:00.000-07:002009-04-17T05:03:00.000-07:00I enjoyed reading that, along with JD's comment......I enjoyed reading that, along with JD's comment...Stratagem, your (first?) comment reminded me of some stuff in Lloyd-Jones' book 'Spiritual Depression'. I think he was talking about how an introspective mindset leads us to be asking 'what if...how would I respond?' questions that tend to bring into bondage and a sense of condemnation... We start acting as judge, jury and prosecution, with test-cases, when the whole point of the cross and advocacy of the Spirit is not to make the new covenant ministry into a reminder of sins (Heb10) but to bring consciousness of sins taken away and remembered no more, by one offering and eternally relevant application. A ministry of life and righteousness, not death and condemnation. Thus, we quit living as continual prodigals with a slavish mindset and start living as reconciled sons, with the privileges and fruits. That's what reveals our Father's heart to us, and enables our transformation, I think.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14063611909779154899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-41544325987745037012009-04-16T18:48:00.000-07:002009-04-16T18:48:00.000-07:00Good post, makes ya stop and think about why one b...Good post, makes ya stop and think about why one believes what they believe.~Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01819856178499938127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-25806431912024240002009-04-16T15:19:00.000-07:002009-04-16T15:19:00.000-07:00@ Squirrel -
Stay outta my checkbook!
@ philnes...@ Squirrel - <br /><br />Stay outta my checkbook!<br /><br />@ philness <br /><br /><I>I ponder if Stewart knew it was March 31 and seized an opportunity to distract the flow of thought and raise doubt in the would be robber</I>.<br /><br />Interesting thought. In college I worked as a checker at a downtown drugstore. I was told if I saw someone in my line that looked suspicious to make bland comments to "him" and others in line that would draw attention to him... like asking him if he's with someone standing near him.<br /><br />I think the theory was that getting more people to look at him would make him less confident and/or break his concentration.<br /><br />I doubt I'd try that on someone who claimed to have a gun, though!Herding Grasshoppershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15668974245505544238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-3547904234755009262009-04-16T15:13:00.000-07:002009-04-16T15:13:00.000-07:00Certainly, it's a thin tightrope to walk, between ...Certainly, it's a thin tightrope to walk, between legalism on the one hand and antinomianism on the other.<br /><br />And even as justified believers, if we try to do good works out of a fleshly desire to please God and stay in His good books (and enjoy the esteem of our brothers and sisters in Christ), then we've got a big problem. I mean, that's half of what the Gospel was about, and why John the Baptist and Jesus Christ tore into the Pharisees!<br /><br />Recognition of which problem caused me (speaking for myself) to take the opposite approach, and take a quite passive approach to sanctification, out of fear (and realization) that trying too hard could just degenerate into dead legalism.<br /><br />But then you risk falling into a life no different from a non-believer or a backslider, and waiting for God to do all the work. (I was bearing <I>some</I> fruit, but walking in obedience—I mean real, true, take-up-your-cross-and-follow-me obedience—to Christ, every hour of every day? Hardly.)<br /><br />For me, on the one hand, I think I've been zealous for having right doctrine (legalistic), yet at the same time lax in the practice of true obedience (antinomian). Not that I've been graceless towards others or wallowing in rank backsliddenness at all...but that's the deceptiveness of it, isn't it? When we're not as much of a goody two-shoes as <I>this guy over here,</I> nor as blatantly disobedient as <I>that lady over there....</I> Well, no matter where we stand on that continuum, we're deep into <A HREF="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Luke+18%3A9-14" REL="nofollow">Luke 18:11-12</A> territory, aren't we?<br /><br />The only answer seems to be to go back to the Cross in prayer and repentance for both our "good" works <I>and</I> our bad works—every day—and earnestly beseech the Holy Spirit to cultivate in us a heart of true obedience, out of love for our King, out of love for the finished work He has already done on the Cross by laying down His life for us, in order that we may glorify Him.<br /><br />Is there really any other way?Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-49934789888316814902009-04-16T15:03:00.000-07:002009-04-16T15:03:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-56341043641538527192009-04-16T14:39:00.000-07:002009-04-16T14:39:00.000-07:00Oh fer crying out loud, can we just once dispense ...Oh fer crying out loud, can we just once dispense with the "I am of Paul, I am of Cephas" argumentation and just appreciate a good post that exhorts the children of God and brothers and sisters of Christ to grow in holiness?<br /><br />Sorry if I'm out of line - this insistence on creating label debates and tossing out straw men particularly when it has nothing ot do with the subject matter just <I>chaps</I> me....Barbarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604068110452745043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-86652632528740120542009-04-16T14:29:00.000-07:002009-04-16T14:29:00.000-07:00Yep, what we believe effects what we do. I know th...<I>Yep, what we believe effects what we do. I know that I could do better in the "visible faith" department.</I>Me too, brother, me too.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-30415336648531393252009-04-16T14:16:00.000-07:002009-04-16T14:16:00.000-07:00odd, because Calvinists have a phobia for all thos...<I>odd, because Calvinists have a phobia for all those red letters</I>.<br /><br /><I>My</I> phobia of red ink comes from my capitalism, not my Calvinism...<br /><br /><I>~Squirrel</I>The Squirrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14082708506676251152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-78090691598347783342009-04-16T13:21:00.000-07:002009-04-16T13:21:00.000-07:00Eric,
I wasn't trying to derail the call for Chri...Eric,<br /><br />I wasn't trying to derail the call for Christians to live out their faith. I was just surprised at how much like an Arminian Dan sounded today and it piqued my interest. As I said, I found the post very edifying. Just because I disagree on some points doesn't mean I don't appreciate fellow Christians. :)<br /><br />God bless :)bossmanhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14787721955360743058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-64454192739419164402009-04-16T12:48:00.000-07:002009-04-16T12:48:00.000-07:00DJP: "This meta has me dizzy. Font-color, TULIP, ...<B>DJP</B>: <I>"This meta has me dizzy. Font-color, TULIP, sovereign grace... I'll bet there's something about the Rapture in there too.<br /><br />Equally, that is."</I>And don't forget about the dreaded topic of "Watch-blogging"! That's gotta be related to the idea of "Does 'faith' matter?", don't ya think?<br /><br />P.S. Just visited "Apprising Ministries" and "Slice of Laodicea". Are those blogs considered awful "watchblogs" because they do what they do because they believe what they believe?Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-14260636603442871162009-04-16T12:45:00.000-07:002009-04-16T12:45:00.000-07:00Also, Stewart recognized the lack of faith in the...Also, Stewart recognized the<I> lack </I> of faith in the robber. If the robber had a gun, he wouldn't be afraid to whip it out. The robber was living his life knowing he had no backup, and that shows.Tom Austinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01439152487935038636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-66811978888892980782009-04-16T12:25:00.000-07:002009-04-16T12:25:00.000-07:00Good post. I enjoyed reading it. It was also hel...Good post. I enjoyed reading it. It was also helpful.<br /><br />ThanksAlexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18141955547001365966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-86698947489224963912009-04-16T12:13:00.000-07:002009-04-16T12:13:00.000-07:00Matt,
You do realize that there is many streams r...Matt,<br /><br />You do realize that there is many streams represented by 'Reformed', and even 'Calvinism', right?<br /><br />Calvinism/Arminianism (or <EM>Classical Theism</EM>) represent one stream.<br /><br />But there are others: <A HREF="http://theologyofbobby.wordpress.com/2008/07/06/the-other-reformed-tradition-versus-the-westminster-tradition/" REL="nofollow"><EM><STRONG>Other Reformed Tradition</STRONG></EM></A>It is presumptuous to think that just because someone rejects the TULIP means that they also reject the <EM>Doctrine's of Grace</EM>. I follow a 'Reformed' <EM>ordo salutis</EM>, but not, obviously the <EM>logico/causal</EM> system provided by <EM>scholastic</EM> Calvinism.<br /><br />Just to clarify.<br /><br />Sorry, DJP, I won't comment anymore on this thread.<br /><br />Peace out!<br /><br /><EM>The Bobby Grow</EM>Bobby Growhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06831009618873548948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80925258891217704732009-04-16T12:02:00.000-07:002009-04-16T12:02:00.000-07:00Clearly, we Calvinists don't know about font-color...<I>Clearly, we Calvinists don't know about font-color. I think that's just a fact.</I>Which is odd, because Calvinists have a phobia for all those red letters. At least, that's what Tony Campolo said...Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10350390523818046990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-85526030934211174732009-04-16T12:00:00.000-07:002009-04-16T12:00:00.000-07:00HG -
Word to the mothers. :)
Especially, if I ...HG - <br /><br />Word to the mothers. :) <br /><br />Especially, if I may be so bold, mothers like me who come from long lines of fulltime ministry families and have Bible degrees and husbands with Bible degrees ...<br /><br />"preaching with bloody hands"<br /><br />Ouch. That's good.Rachael Starkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10781158372237369417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80000942260838671582009-04-16T11:59:00.001-07:002009-04-16T11:59:00.001-07:00Clearly, we Calvinists don't know about font-color...Clearly, we Calvinists don't know about font-color. I think that's just a fact.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-7674520423799719762009-04-16T11:59:00.000-07:002009-04-16T11:59:00.000-07:00And great call to holy living, brother Dan!And great call to holy living, brother Dan!Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10350390523818046990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-5049869600414874922009-04-16T11:58:00.000-07:002009-04-16T11:58:00.000-07:00Well done, brother Dan.
I love how those who ref...Well done, brother Dan. <br /><br />I love how those who refuse to understand Calvinism never change their tune. <br /><br /><B>TOPIC</B> - Justification - "those horrible Calvinists don't care anything for sanctified living"<br /><br /><B>TOPIC</B> - Sanctification - "all you horrible Calvinists do is focus on justification. You don't care anything about sanctified living. You should be more irenic and humble. You know, like me!"<br /><br />As a former (very strong) Arminian, I can testify to just how blinding Arminian thought can be.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10350390523818046990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-4518274709963873372009-04-16T11:49:00.000-07:002009-04-16T11:49:00.000-07:00LOL. Now that's funny.
And tag! you've been bitte...LOL. Now <I>that's</I> funny.<br /><br />And tag! you've been bitten by the new Blogger tag-bug.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-6577977415882373542009-04-16T11:48:00.001-07:002009-04-16T11:48:00.001-07:00Bobby GrowBut I didn't order any red herring, it's...<STRONG>Bobby Grow</STRONG>But I didn't order any <EM>red herring</EM>, it's kind of stinky (there is that anecdotal enough).<br /><br /><STRONG>Bobby Grow</STRONG><EM>P.S.</EM> I don't like triads, instead I prefer <EM>inclusios</EM>.Bobby Growhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06831009618873548948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33869750197626135642009-04-16T11:48:00.000-07:002009-04-16T11:48:00.000-07:00Save room for me. Seriously. The thought challenge...Save room for me. Seriously. The thought challenged me before I shared it. In preaching, I've often said that I preach with bloody hands <I>in the sense that</I> the Word is two-edged (Hebrews 4:12), and cuts the preacher before it cuts his hearers.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-22653700250128967412009-04-16T11:45:00.000-07:002009-04-16T11:45:00.000-07:00DJP,
No arguments or questions this time: great s...DJP,<br /><br />No arguments or questions this time: great stuff. Perfect illustration of an important point.<br /><br />Thanks brother. I need to go spend some time repenting now...<br /><br />AndrewAndrew Farishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16500885575497425538noreply@blogger.com