tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post5166705875677887567..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: The Discipline of Spiritual DiscernmentPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-86745486487739065882008-01-13T06:28:00.000-08:002008-01-13T06:28:00.000-08:00I haven't gotten the book, but then I guess it wou...I haven't gotten the book, but then I guess it would be quite hard for me to get it as 'Christian' bookstores my area are ... well, let's say it's certianly very much easier to get a Joel Osteen or any "Apostle's" book than let's say a MacArthur book. Does sound like a good book to get though, after I have finished reading the ones I have bought the last time.<BR/><BR/>And it is certainly regrettable that Tim Challies and his book were attacked not based on their merits/demerits. Academic elitism is manifestly unChristian. As long as the person is mature enough spiritually and able to contribute something of worth for the edification of the saints, that is the only criteria that we should use.Daniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-37094593746939458352008-01-10T09:38:00.000-08:002008-01-10T09:38:00.000-08:00Wow. That discussion on that other board between S...Wow. That discussion on that other board between Steve camp et al on this book really burned me. You want to know who is able to write a Christian book? Look at Romans, etc, when Paul writes. there are three qualifications:<BR/><BR/>1. The person is a mature Christian.<BR/><BR/>2. He seeks the Lord in prayer in writing the book.<BR/><BR/>3. The book edifies the saints.<BR/><BR/>Then, and only then, can the book and its writer be judged on Scriptural merits.<BR/><BR/>In other words, as their witness has shown, Tim is qualified. The Pyros are qualified. Any book will stand or fall on the merits of God's word, on how faithful it is to it's teaching.Gilberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05267525662313103148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-50565993738423465682008-01-10T05:18:00.000-08:002008-01-10T05:18:00.000-08:00I kid you not, however, that Cardinal Dulles is hi...<I>I kid you not, however, that Cardinal Dulles is highly regarded by the RC's.</I><BR/><BR/>So is medieval heretic Julian of Norwich!Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-677371055641815242008-01-10T05:16:00.000-08:002008-01-10T05:16:00.000-08:00TUAD,I'm sure he is. That article wasn't saying an...TUAD,<BR/><BR/>I'm sure he is. That article wasn't saying anything unusual for the Roman "church".<BR/><BR/>It only reemphasizes the non-Christianness of that organization.<BR/><BR/>Thank God for the Reformation!!Darylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01296029404229769941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-3637627324005147452008-01-09T21:53:00.000-08:002008-01-09T21:53:00.000-08:00Here's a brief bio of Cardinal Avery Dulles for an...Here's a brief bio of Cardinal Avery Dulles for anyone who's interested.<BR/><BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avery_Cardinal_DullesTruth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-10705159306674054492008-01-09T21:37:00.000-08:002008-01-09T21:37:00.000-08:00Centurion, Daryl, No Longer Blind, Thank you for a...Centurion, Daryl, No Longer Blind, <BR/><BR/>Thank you for affirming my thoughts as well. I kid you not, however, that Cardinal Dulles is highly regarded by the RC's.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-38698171653611088962008-01-09T18:54:00.000-08:002008-01-09T18:54:00.000-08:00Minor editorial correction:It was his numerous ref...Minor editorial correction:<BR/><BR/>It was his numerous references to belief in Christ, faith, etc.--NOT the additional sacramental baptism---that gave me the "undiscerning positive expectation" for this article!!!NoLongerBlindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00442745304762344386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-18250310836949830892008-01-09T18:47:00.000-08:002008-01-09T18:47:00.000-08:00TUAD:Regarding the "Who Can Be Saved" article:At t...TUAD:<BR/><BR/>Regarding the "Who Can Be Saved" article:<BR/><BR/>At the outset, in his numerous references to Scripture, his article might seem on track to some.<BR/>It seemed to me right from the get-go he was placing too much emphasis on "baptism" in addidtion to faith--typical of Romish soteriology. Made me think that maybe there was some hope for this guy.....<BR/>but, alas, his true colors showed up when he started straying from Scripture, and then, BLAM---he got me---(by applying my hand directly to MY forehead)--with those oh-so-familiar words, "no-one outside 'the church' will be saved". Then, it unraveled steadily from there.....<BR/><BR/>Now, if only I'd read that article AFTER I'd read Tim C's book, I might have been discerning enough to not have ANY initial positive expectations about a catholic crow's, err, make that, cardinal's views of things Spiritually discerned.....NoLongerBlindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00442745304762344386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-50169079035410474102008-01-09T18:39:00.000-08:002008-01-09T18:39:00.000-08:00What a load of hooey that article was...What a load of hooey that article was...Darylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01296029404229769941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-77621940379532533992008-01-09T18:27:00.000-08:002008-01-09T18:27:00.000-08:00TUAD:He's pretty broadly wrong.That's how I'd resp...TUAD:<BR/><BR/>He's pretty broadly wrong.<BR/><BR/>That's how I'd respond.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-28602535929771571112008-01-09T15:21:00.000-08:002008-01-09T15:21:00.000-08:00Hmmmmmm, I wonder how Tim Challies and Team Pyro r...Hmmmmmm, I wonder how Tim Challies and Team Pyro readers would practice "Spiritual Discernment" regarding this article by a Catholic Cardinal about "Who Can Be Saved?"<BR/><BR/>http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=6126<BR/><BR/>AFAIK, both the author and the journal are highly regarded.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-18448789653261564472008-01-09T14:56:00.000-08:002008-01-09T14:56:00.000-08:00TUAD: By Jove, you're right! You see, I joined a s...TUAD: By Jove, you're right! <BR/>You see, I joined a smallish rock band named the Dukes of Discernment; then my tone control knob dropped off somewhere along the line, and I've been too busy to replace it.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-9050334887984725052008-01-09T14:13:00.000-08:002008-01-09T14:13:00.000-08:00Stratagem, you're hurting the feelings of both Eme...Stratagem, you're hurting the feelings of both Emergents and Liberals with that mocking tone. To express disagreement with an Emergent/Liberal automatically means that you're tone is wrong. <BR/><BR/>And if your tone is wrong, then that means you're unloving and expressing yourself in an unloving way. And if you're unloving in your tone, then they can't hear your message, or the substance of your message.<BR/><BR/>But if you agree with them, then that's loving. And your tone is loving. And then they'll be able to hear the substance of your loving agreement and affirmation of them.<BR/><BR/>That is how it works. Obey the rules of discourse with Emergent/Liberals and you will be fine. Disobey and you will earn their name-calling wrath and be demonized. The choice is yours.<BR/><BR/>(Tongue planted firmly in cheek.)Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-36067997706119264842008-01-09T14:00:00.000-08:002008-01-09T14:00:00.000-08:00The article says that both Emergents and Liberal M...<I>The article says that both Emergents and Liberal Mainlines regard theology as important.</I><BR/><BR/>Ha ha ha... The trouble is (how can I say this briefly? How about: THEY SPEND THEIR EFFORTS TRYING TO CHANGE GOD, RATHER THAN LETTING GOD CHANGE THEM.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-76535223016020587652008-01-09T13:48:00.000-08:002008-01-09T13:48:00.000-08:00You need the 'apply directly to the forehead' grap...<I>You need the 'apply directly to the forehead' graphic, Phil. Orange and purple together would be lovely.</I><BR/><BR/>Apply <I>discernment</I> directly to the forehead.<BR/><BR/>Great advice.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00499447751220981083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-67890196919429375142008-01-09T13:45:00.000-08:002008-01-09T13:45:00.000-08:00edohio- I don't know anything about TEDS, but I wo...edohio- I don't know anything about TEDS, but I wonder if perhaps they simply are trying to expose their students to a wide variety of Christian authors? The fact that a book is assigned reading certainly doesn't mean they approve of everything inside it. Or even that they approve of most of it.<BR/><BR/>For example, I know Covenant Seminary, which is the official seminary of the PCA (and therefore extremely tied to the Westminster Confession) will assign non-reformed books to their students if they feel the book is helpful. Sometimes they even assign a book they know their students will dislike and assign them a paper that talks exclusively about the strong points of the book. I think it's a good exercise in teaching graciousness and humility, which are two of the things I most love about everything I see coming out of Covenant...Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14287193776037405708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-4237316554316051172008-01-09T12:55:00.000-08:002008-01-09T12:55:00.000-08:00lollolDJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-9181250431293948322008-01-09T12:51:00.000-08:002008-01-09T12:51:00.000-08:00"Challies' book is just so ...orange. It clashes w...<I>"Challies' book is just so ...orange. It clashes with the look and feel of our blog."</I><BR/><BR/>Now this is a book review!dechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17913012587385718280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-39458309404672672412008-01-09T12:49:00.000-08:002008-01-09T12:49:00.000-08:00Challies wrote a book?Challies wrote a book?Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10096446452426544551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-4212617739885054702008-01-09T12:46:00.000-08:002008-01-09T12:46:00.000-08:00Here's an article about the interface between Emer...Here's an article about the interface between Emergent churches and Liberal Mainline Churches:<BR/><BR/>http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/januaryweb-only/102-32.0.html<BR/><BR/>The article says that both Emergents and Liberal Mainlines regard theology as important. Taking them at face value then, one would assume that Challies book on Discernment would be very timely and useful for both Emergents and Liberals.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-74696144535247950472008-01-09T12:20:00.000-08:002008-01-09T12:20:00.000-08:00No debate here. Just sharing.Your post just made ...No debate here. Just sharing.<BR/><BR/>Your post just made me think about another way we humans can mess up the concept of church so easily.<BR/><BR/>If I had an application it would be:<BR/><BR/>Read the Word more and pick up Tim's book! One of the major struggles in the church is lack of discernment, both at the lay and leadership levels!Sled Doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12810818221184023798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-3667046802614261682008-01-09T12:15:00.000-08:002008-01-09T12:15:00.000-08:00Sled: Other than the fact that the need to keep bo...Sled: Other than the fact that the need to keep both truth and grace is also an example of theology or doctrine, I have nothing to really disagree with in what you wrote. Sounds right to me.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-81428130626008137022008-01-09T12:00:00.000-08:002008-01-09T12:00:00.000-08:00Strat,Yes, the doctrinal statement was great. But...Strat,<BR/><BR/>Yes, the doctrinal statement was great. But the problem was the theology was being worshipped, rather than the actual God the theology described. It was simply taking theology and making an idol out of it. Knowing the info was more important than knowing God. It was all processed through the head but made a detour when it came to the heart. So instead of producing the same type of response Isaiah had when he caught a glimpse of God, men acted as if they more they knew about the theology, the more power they had in regards to leadership and influence among the flock.<BR/><BR/>As long as men struggle with the flesh, even churches with solid doctrine must be careful that pride not creep in and take that which is good and make in abominable. <BR/><BR/>The challenge for believers and churches is to grow in both the grace and the knowledge of Christ.<BR/><BR/>Too much grace without knowledge obviously can produce an anemic, unfocused, undisciplined, ignorant church. Too much knowledge without grace produces something akin to the Pharisees that Jesus found to be most frustrating. Both our severe danger zones. <BR/><BR/>I find it interesting as I talk to people who have been in either situation, there is a temptation to run to the far extreme of what was experienced. May we have the discernment to know what is good and true, and not just jump from one insanity to the next!Sled Doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12810818221184023798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-34113157395305669922008-01-09T11:38:00.000-08:002008-01-09T11:38:00.000-08:00Interesting, the hardest time I ever had in a chur...<I> Interesting, the hardest time I ever had in a church was a situation when leadership was, IMHO, overly consumed with theology, at the expense of living out the simple directives of Scripture. Spiritual pride was off the charts. Much pain ensued, and that church, some many years laters bears scars.</I><BR/><BR/><BR/>SLED:<BR/>The example you are using sounds like a church that was possessed of <I>bad</I> theology, not one that was preoccupied with true theology, per se.<BR/><BR/>Being consumed with discovering true doctrine leads to the fruit of the Spirit. The only way one can end up with overbearing pride is via bad doctrine, no matter how sound one's official doctrinal <I>statement</I> may be.Nash Equilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06528684112014026512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-30530986836673768752008-01-09T11:13:00.000-08:002008-01-09T11:13:00.000-08:00I agree on the seminary point of view. There are s...I agree on the seminary point of view. There are some excellent ones, but unfortunately, all churches are looking for is an MDiv from "somewhere" out there! Seems they don't do any more research on the quality of the seminary than they do on the expectation that the pastor exposit the Word of God. Just a quick look at requirements for churches looking for pastors and you will see that they don't have a clue. hey, if you can play an instrument, you will be one of the leading candidates at one church for their pastor!!pastorbrianculverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07325788116682801754noreply@blogger.com