tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post5290637381152307577..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: What did Jesus (not) say about... His teaching? (full post)Phil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-79519516799234172472011-02-26T20:14:57.553-08:002011-02-26T20:14:57.553-08:00Amazing post! I know I am late to this party but ...Amazing post! I know I am late to this party but better late than never! Thanks Dan!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-40427654797855494142010-12-04T04:07:53.140-08:002010-12-04T04:07:53.140-08:00Admittedly, if I had to face life alone and make d...Admittedly, if I had to face life alone and make decisions based solely on my feelings and or experience, I most certainly would crash and burn. It's not just because I don't have all the answers, or that there is something inherently wrong with me, although those things in and of themselves contribute significantly to my difficulties. There is also a spiritual force that has my destruction as its primary occupation. Ephesians chapter 6 says it this way:<br /><br />Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. <br />I am going to the Throne of Grace now, to find grace to help in time of need. My house (my life) is being built upon 'The Rock' and I have work to do!Mark Lussierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10472156538332560286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-83315598639507036302010-12-01T16:21:20.623-08:002010-12-01T16:21:20.623-08:00Great post.
As an added bonus, I was just talking...Great post.<br /><br />As an added bonus, I was just talking with someone about the faux-humility rampant in atheist/emerg*** circles. You know the type - how they begin with a big show about how little we know, then everything they say reeks of "I'm actually omniscient, anything that doesn't fit my ideas/desires is obviously wrong, and whoever believes it is an imbecile compared to my greatness." What better example could I have axed for?<br /><br />The 'lordship' tag is certainly appropriate, because it all comes down to this. When God and I disagree, one of us is wrong. The key question we all must account for is, which one? We've seen the tragic path VM has chosen - and once were we all. Praise God if He's saved you from such self-destructive folly.trogdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452996348717802065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-35962991617540394652010-12-01T14:13:42.869-08:002010-12-01T14:13:42.869-08:00I'm sorry, i'm a rude guest. You seem nice...I'm sorry, i'm a rude guest. You seem nice and haven't been unfair. I won't disturb your peace any more.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13969906433519284263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-7161614541127962572010-12-01T14:07:52.996-08:002010-12-01T14:07:52.996-08:00In the end, if you live good lives - in spite of y...In the end, if you live good lives - in spite of your need for faith, or because of it, then it doesn't matter at all.<br /><br />With respect, Robert, you shouldn't use that argument anymore. Refuting my claim that all Jesus brought was hope by stating he brought a secure hope and not a wishful hope, and that hope is a promise… and that you KNOW you will be glorified… the first part is a nearly clinical proof of what I said... and the second part stinks of that particular brand of bloodthirsty glee wrapped in pious concern – very specific to christians…<br /><br />DJP, thank you very much for the recommendation to read more scripture. And since we've reached the dismissive part of this conversation, the god represented in most of that book is a horrible, merciless HUMAN - indistinguishable in tone and content from all the other humans in that book. I admit I can't refute that we're made in his image - or vice versa as a comedian might point out.<br /><br />There is not one thing said in there, that is attributed to god, that sounds in the least godly. All the poetry and beauty is just the amplified yearnings of the readers, and the selling by the "invested interpreters", i.e. priests. <br /><br />You of course all know this, but have found a way to rationalize away that dissonance. <br /><br />What I would recommend, is to stop all this self-love and embrace dissonance! <br /><br />It's a wierd feeling, knowing that we both look at the other, dumbfounded that they just don't get it! Everything else aside, isn't that kind of extraordinary? We might as well be arguing with the wind for all the good it will do.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13969906433519284263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-79569231063125165772010-12-01T13:31:04.001-08:002010-12-01T13:31:04.001-08:00You read every word of that essay, thought it over...You read every word of that essay, thought it over carefully, and came up with <i>that?</i> Interesting.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-87364521051142957592010-12-01T13:27:06.586-08:002010-12-01T13:27:06.586-08:00That's full of sad irony, VM. Your locked into...That's full of sad irony, VM. Your locked into a self-referential faith position, from which you feel secure to judge Jesus as not measuring up to <i>your</i> standards.<br /><br />The irony? First words in the sermon you blithely wave aside:<br /><br />"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."<br /><br />Fail.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-87312761600012675092010-12-01T13:26:12.647-08:002010-12-01T13:26:12.647-08:00I can't help myself: the link you sent me summ...I can't help myself: the link you sent me summarized is as follows:<br /><br />since I can't understand almost everything, it is not possible for it to exist, except if god made it, therefore god exists. <br /><br />UNBELIEVABLE HUBRIS.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13969906433519284263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-29752551723385371122010-12-01T13:22:50.062-08:002010-12-01T13:22:50.062-08:00Well, VM, for myself, I can say only say that I, t...Well, VM, for myself, I can say only say that I, too, at one time thought that what Jesus taught was ho-hum, nothing new, and unsurprising. I also thought I was basically a good person, a nice guy, who believed in God, and respected Jesus as a great moral teacher.<br /><br />I can only recognize how truly radical Jesus' preaching is now, because God has laid bare the dark corners of my heart, and reveals to me enough sin in my own "basically good" heart (on an ongoing basis) to know that what He taught is not the way of the world...just as what He teaches goes against my own inclinations.<br /><br />As for those who are self-righteous, you'll need to discern for yourself whether a given person is <i>really</i> self-righteous, or only appears that way to you. And don't worry: if they're <i>really</i> self-righteous—even if they call themselves a Chritian—they'll get their rebuke, because Jesus Christ didn't give His life for those who think they're good enough to get to heaven by their own steam: only those who realize they can <i>never</i> get to heaven on their own, according to God's own standard.<br /><br />(But realize that you and I risk becoming self-righteous ourselves, in judging others as self-righteous!)Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-68642015232261543872010-12-01T13:22:30.239-08:002010-12-01T13:22:30.239-08:00Yeah, well. thats life i guess. I've said ever...Yeah, well. thats life i guess. I've said everything I aimed to. I realize your investment is far too large to be affected by some stranger on a comment board; and - as always - I've found nothing compelling here.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13969906433519284263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-6944101525261636842010-12-01T13:13:29.542-08:002010-12-01T13:13:29.542-08:00VM, looks like the first part of your long, two pa...VM, looks like the first part of your long, two part comment didn't go through. Sorry, that's Blogger.<br /><br />But I've read it all.<br /><br />I was afraid of this. You drop in, clearly barely glance at the post, barely glance at the Sermon on the Mount (which <i>was not</i> the topic of the post), and drop about 400 words about yourself, and whether Jesus measures up to your ideas of what a good God should be and do.<br /><br />A few responses later, we have hundreds of more words about you and your feelings.<br /><br />This actually was about Jesus, though. Not you, not me. You could hardly have missed the point more drastically.<br /><br />So if you want to convince everyone that your cred is vastly superior and more persuasive than that of Someone whose life was <a href="http://www.bibchr.com/whychr.html" rel="nofollow">miracle from before His birth to after His death</a>, you've made a poor start of it.<br /><br />I wish you'd read the post again, look up the verses, think about it, and maybe have another on-topic go.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-22953077561153784322010-12-01T12:50:32.860-08:002010-12-01T12:50:32.860-08:00I've met two kinds of 'believers' in m...I've met two kinds of 'believers' in my life: the excluders, and the lovers. the excluders hold their heaven ticket so tight and look at everyone with a feeling that falls somewhere in the range between glee and bloodthirst - TOTALLY happy to be surrounded by nonbelievers, as their god strokes their hair and whispers the methods of torture that will be visited upon those naughties. Excluders don't debate, they don't think. They have a TICKET TO HEAVEN and a front row seat to my eternal agony! And they expect entry. period. <br /><br />The ones in love are the ones I sympathise with, and – for some reason – have FAITH in, that they can find their way out of the huggy mist, and experience the true independence, the true walk in the wilderness that comes with ACTUAL humility: we're all alone, and only temporary. If your god existed, and was as awesome as you say – don't you think he'd expect you to grow during the time you have here? Don't you think he'd find it tedious – these "he's real/he's not real" debates with nobody having any convincing evidence either way? <br /><br />And I will lay this accusation at the end, which colors my opinion of a lot of you: most believers are not pure of heart – and I don't mean that they are sinners. Everyone is able to say "I'm a sinner", that’s easy. But very few of you will ever specify your darkest sins as loudly as you proudly proclaim your humility. Faith is just a word to these people, like "sin" – its so CLEAN. You're humans, you're jerks, you're secretive, obsessive, jealous creatures with acceptable and unacceptable urges. Same as everyone else. You're in it for that ticket.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13969906433519284263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-58930359986820309462010-12-01T11:39:34.460-08:002010-12-01T11:39:34.460-08:00I'm glad I waited until today to reread this p...I'm glad I waited until today to reread this post and say thanks for it. The older I get, the more I marvel at previous seasons in my life when I was either monumentally wrong about things I was utterly confident I was right about,<br /><br />or just generally wandering around in a blithe state of mild uncertainty and aimlessness.<br /><br />I didn't know that all I needed to know what that everything Jesus says is true, and that everything He said and says is the key to joy, peace and (yes, VM) certain hope for the future. I don't need to look to Obama, Santa Claus, Oprah, my inner compass, or anything/one else.<br /><br />And the only reason I know that now is, as you said, because God graciously opened my blind eyes to see it.<br /><br />Thanks for the reminder Dan. And VM, I'll pray God does the same thing for you that He did for me - you'll keep seeing things the way you see them now unless He does.Rachael Starkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10781158372237369417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-36246621117721790802010-12-01T04:38:41.381-08:002010-12-01T04:38:41.381-08:00VM,
I hope that you will go read Scripture and th...VM,<br /><br />I hope that you will go read Scripture and then examine your own heart and the world around you. Jesus didn't bring some idle "hope" that we just blindly follow. He is our hope...an active hope that is a secure hope...not a wishful hope that we are accustomed to in this world. <br /><br />"Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is <b><i>Christ in you, the hope of glory</i></b>." (Colossians 1:25-27, emphasis mine)<br /><br />This hope is a promise. We (Christians) <b><i>know</i></b> that we will be glorified when God gives us our glorified resurrection bodies at the end of the world. I am sad that you do not have this hope, but will be praying for God to open your eyes and your mind to the truth of Scripture so that you can experience the true hope of christ in you.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13987985549747283669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-32444203902578279262010-11-30T20:56:12.198-08:002010-11-30T20:56:12.198-08:00VM.
Jesus brought much more than hope.
None of us ...VM.<br />Jesus brought much more than hope.<br />None of us with hundreds words carefully picked and arranged will convince you of what Christ did or who He is.<br />My plea to you is to investigate further the claims that he made. Maybe go visit Lee Strobel site, read A Case for Christ. His books only skim the surface. Check out the resources he uses and read them for more in-depth study.<br />Who knows maybe you will stop thinking and start knowing.<br />I think. <br /><br />Nice post danThomas Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08406486510590654502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80497135582301739182010-11-30T19:27:12.080-08:002010-11-30T19:27:12.080-08:00"But if Jesus was god, he brought NOTHING wit..."But if Jesus was god, he brought NOTHING with him to get anything done. He brought one thing: that magical gift of 'hope'."<br /><br />Kinda like the current president of the USA, huh?<br /><br />But to disagree, He brought much more than just hope. He brought, in himself, the only perfect sacrifice to atone for the sins of us, who are completely unable to offer any thing in our own defense.Mike Westfallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06944727980772754938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-25191447533965345712010-11-30T19:10:38.836-08:002010-11-30T19:10:38.836-08:00VM:
If you think there's nothing surprising o...VM:<br /><br />If you think there's nothing surprising or revolutionary about what Jesus preached in the Sermon on the Mount, then you haven't lived a long time, and/or gotten out much, and/or taken a very careful look at the society in which we live, or just basic human nature.<br /><br />The idea that the meek (and not the strong) shall inherit the earth; or that even so much as looking lustfully at a woman is the same as committing adultery; or that people should love their enemies and pray for those who persecute them; or that we should not boast in our charitable givings; or that we should not worry about what we're going to eat or wear; or that we should not judge others, lest we be judged; or that the Christian way is hard, not easy...<br /><br />These are <i>not</i> the beliefs of society at large: no more so now than 2000 years ago! (And, I will concede, that these are all challenges to Christians as well.)Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-62344150299119767602010-11-30T17:03:48.929-08:002010-11-30T17:03:48.929-08:00It's interesting, VM, that your first sentence...It's interesting, VM, that your first sentence wistfully notes human ignorance... then you're content with a brief glance at one sermon by Jesus, followed by an airy dismissal. Whereas His hearers, more in tune than you with what He was saying, were thunderstruck.<br /><br />Odds that you're missing something crucial? To say the least?DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-86704706439461711572010-11-30T16:56:22.196-08:002010-11-30T16:56:22.196-08:00Excellent, thank you !!Excellent, thank you !!TARhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17978325588611965241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-25444136230993372412010-11-30T16:41:23.151-08:002010-11-30T16:41:23.151-08:00The universe is so infinitely grand, we humans are...The universe is so infinitely grand, we humans are so tragically incapable of grasping even the magnitude of our ignorance. I like how you begin this post - its sad and aspirational, and almost songlike. But then, here's a guy, who says he's god, and doesn't trip up (he says "I say unto you" a bunch of times, and all that.)<br /><br />So here he is! Jesus - A GOD - in his first presentation with us: his ignorant, limited children. On this occasion - maybe top 5 most meaningful moment in human history - what was the content of his grand first sermon? With what epoch-changing information did he enlighten that crowd?<br /><br />I looked it up, because I've long forgotten. Thats not a slam - his teachings have been "the teachings" all children with christian parents hear from birth, so its possible I'd already heard it before.<br /><br />He told the crowd to be meek; to treat each other like they'd like to be treated. He also said some preposterously obvious things that apparently aren't: ostentatious prayer is bad, acts without soul are bad, etc. All very nice, but...<br /><br />I'm sorry - I'll leave it there I think. Your post is very thoughtful, I enjoyed reading it. But if Jesus was god, he brought NOTHING with him to get anything done. He brought one thing: that magical gift of 'hope'. There's nothing quite like it in the world - and all it takes is good presentation skills to master the selling of it.<br /><br />The incongruity between the wisdom a god could bring us, his children, and what that nice man Jesus actually said, on the hill there, in his little sermon... I personally find it terribly sad - like a lost opportunity... But its as good an indictment as could be found, that this guy was not a god.<br /><br />Theology, semantics, hermeneutics, christian science (a name right out of a monty python sketch btw), they're all just exotic incestuous enterprises, with self-sustenance as their only output - kinda like cancer.<br /><br />Whenever I engage religious people, it comes across as offensive, for which i sincerely apologize - its difficult seperating an attack on faith/religion/related enterprises/pushers thereof/etc, from the person believing. But I do draw the distinction. I loathe your religions, like i would loathe a deadly disease; but despite their shallow, mystical arguments that always require faith in order to understand faith, I respect believers, who are frail, biased, fearful, and just as prone to falling in love with ideas as me. peace.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13969906433519284263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-85051913148877047672010-11-30T16:24:12.766-08:002010-11-30T16:24:12.766-08:00Check the rules in the sidebar, bring the vocabula...Check the rules in the sidebar, bring the vocabulary to an American "G" rating, and have another go.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-60403024313873536762010-11-30T16:21:57.361-08:002010-11-30T16:21:57.361-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13969906433519284263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-12276994678081302092010-11-30T16:19:23.575-08:002010-11-30T16:19:23.575-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13969906433519284263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1568184284449367632010-11-30T10:39:53.275-08:002010-11-30T10:39:53.275-08:00Dan, this is a terrific post and I, and probably m...Dan, this is a terrific post and I, and probably many others, would love to tell you what we think, but …JackWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16384160992033491748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-18717936173268376312010-11-30T10:38:31.798-08:002010-11-30T10:38:31.798-08:00I have nothing to add except let us close in praye...I have nothing to add except let us close in prayer before the benediction....<br /><br />I love the ending of the Sermon on the Mount. "As one having authority..." should smack all of us in the face.Scothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16573138499478048502noreply@blogger.com