tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post573202653547279729..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Book review — 40 Questions about Christians and Biblical Law, by Thomas R. SchreinerPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-12177316222999258992012-01-21T18:27:12.618-08:002012-01-21T18:27:12.618-08:00I blogged some thoughts about Justin Taylor's ...I blogged some thoughts about Justin Taylor's post a while ago. I also subsequently read Dr. Schreiner's section on the Sabbath (and other sections of the book). I posted twice on Schreiner on the Sabbath and then lost desire to continue the discussion. I may pick it up again some time. Here are the links.<br /><br />http://www.mctsowensboro.org/2010/10/response-to-schreiner-on-the-sabbath-1/<br /><br />http://www.mctsowensboro.org/2010/10/response-to-schreiner-on-the-sabbath-2/Rich Barcelloshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06756337076492536604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-41567054925687145792012-01-20T14:37:11.955-08:002012-01-20T14:37:11.955-08:00Allistair Begg is one prominent Evangelical who be...Allistair Begg is one prominent Evangelical who believes the fourth commandment is still in force, along with the rest of the Decalogue. But he also sees himself in the minority on that point. I do seem to remember Ryrie in his Basic Theology saying something about Calvin holding to the idea of the moral law component still being in force as binding law, but being a bit muddled about what to do with the Sabbath. So maybe Schreiner is going a bit against the grain of his fellow reformed writers and thinkers. If thsre is an area where he seems to be iconoclastic it would probably be tithing. In any case I ordered the book and am eager to read it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention as I am right now in the midst of teaching Romans 6-8 so those questions are foremost in my mind right now.The Nomadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04948538406493558187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-8460371653140563822012-01-20T12:13:29.048-08:002012-01-20T12:13:29.048-08:00I have found that believers who don't know/car...I have found that believers who don't know/care about details of justification, atonement, etc., have a knee-jerk reaction when it comes to the Sabbath, even when they don't keep it correctly according to the Mosaic Law, which, I think, few, if any, do. <br /><br />IOW, I agree with you that there is probably a small minority that genuinely tries to keep the Sabbath correctly. But I think the majority BELIEVES that it takes it seriously, and that it does not take kindly to the notion that it is no longer required.<br /><br />However, I can't prove it. Maybe there are some reliable statistics on this issue.jmbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07164857192077648887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-70113338240165524922012-01-20T11:11:57.892-08:002012-01-20T11:11:57.892-08:00@ JMB,
One thing we can see here at this site is ...@ JMB,<br /><br />One thing we can see here at this site is that commenters show up based on the subject at hand and their level of opposition to it. I don't rate these things based on comments in a thread, but on what I see in the actual practice of the church.<br /><br />Perhaps we really do travel in very different circles. I would be honestly shocked to find that 1 in 200 professed evangelicals both believed that the fourth commandment is applicable today and made an effort to keep it. The wave of the last few generations has been in the opposite direction. And given that the wave has been what it has been, I find it hard to call presentations like Schreiner's "courageous."<br /><br />Mind, I'm making a very focused point here - not trying to debate the hermeneutics of law or even really to evaluate Schreiner's arguments. It just seems evident to me that in a day when a tiny minority of evangelical Christians actually practice Sabbath keeping, a great majority would be pleased to discover that Schreiner wrote an argument - any argument - which urged them to carry on. His position was bound to be popular with the widest scope of Christians. Making it isn't exactly courageous, which in and of itself is not an argument for or against what he said.Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-76049604723106247672012-01-20T10:16:48.506-08:002012-01-20T10:16:48.506-08:00@ Tom Chantry
You must run in different circles t...@ Tom Chantry<br /><br />You must run in different circles than I do. It's difficult for me to remember a single believer, many of whom are dispensationalists, who agreed with me that the Sabbath is no longer necessary for believers.<br /><br />For a more representative sample, take a look at the 256 comments at Justin Taylor's blog when he posted Schreiner's chapter.<br /><br />http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2010/10/14/schreiner-qa-is-the-sabbath-still-required-for-christians/?comments#commentsjmbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07164857192077648887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-66912705549137597882012-01-20T10:12:49.552-08:002012-01-20T10:12:49.552-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.jmbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07164857192077648887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-81587067794705948332012-01-20T10:11:20.277-08:002012-01-20T10:11:20.277-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.jmbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07164857192077648887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-91994722527501859662012-01-19T16:56:22.183-08:002012-01-19T16:56:22.183-08:00@ James Kime,
Thanks for the kind vote of confide...@ James Kime,<br /><br />Thanks for the kind vote of confidence.<br /><br />That said, are Covenentalists that small a percentage of Evangelicals who have thought about the issues? No, the distribution is somewhat more even. But non-covenentalists, new covenant folk, general evangelicals who don't ever think through issues of law, and all sorts of other people would find Schreiner's position on the Sabbath agreeable. Are practicing Sabbatarians 0.5% of evangelicals? Probably not so many.Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80580281789952838822012-01-19T16:42:52.844-08:002012-01-19T16:42:52.844-08:00@Tom Chantry
Are covenantists really only .5% of ...@Tom Chantry<br /><br />Are covenantists really only .5% of Evangelicals? That gives me hope.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-65358723375897703222012-01-19T16:23:54.829-08:002012-01-19T16:23:54.829-08:00@ JMB,
Courageous? I'd like to see that fles...@ JMB,<br /><br />Courageous? I'd like to see that fleshed out. Agree or disagree, it seems hard to make the case that there is anything courageous about his stance.<br /><br />Is it courageous to stand up for global warming at a Hollywood party? Or to call the President a Marxist at a tea party rally?<br /><br />Didn't Schreiner just provide a defense of what is obviously the view of 99 and a half percent of Evangelicals?Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-62724907738821923832012-01-19T15:12:57.676-08:002012-01-19T15:12:57.676-08:00Your book reviews are really thoughtful, Dan. As a...Your book reviews are really thoughtful, Dan. As a bear of little brain, I'm unlikely to pick this one up, but I appreciate how you've outlined it.David Regierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09766862583586784668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-31397717608816485932012-01-19T15:04:20.937-08:002012-01-19T15:04:20.937-08:00I agree that this is a superb book. His chapter o...I agree that this is a superb book. His chapter on the Sabbath is somewhat courageous; and correct, imho. Schreiner's Commentary on Galatians is also an excellent book.<br /><br />John Dunn - Though he doesn't use the term "grace obedience," his pov seems to be similar to what that implies.jmbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07164857192077648887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-57364382715648367232012-01-19T14:26:58.056-08:002012-01-19T14:26:58.056-08:00Excellent review, thanks for your helpful comments...Excellent review, thanks for your helpful comments.<br /><br />I think that the "unnamed school of thought" may be named (and it might not be the one you're alluding to cough**dispensationalism**cough) in the upcoming work, Kingdom through Convenant by Schreiner's colleagues Wellum and Gentry.neikenberryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09714324860625412926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-42494787088346513152012-01-19T11:11:38.145-08:002012-01-19T11:11:38.145-08:00It will be interesting to see whether Schreiner vi...It will be interesting to see whether Schreiner views the NT commands and imperatives (Law of Christ) as just a modified "third-use" category of 'law code' obedience, or whether he views them as that spiritual fruit which flows from Gospel grace and our union to Christ by the Spirit. Do we render 'grace obedience' or 'law obedience'? There is a difference.John Dunnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13008638529128561720noreply@blogger.com