tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post5879921365240079055..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Communicating better: what must I do?Phil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger185125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-25662957303497255042009-08-27T09:44:04.641-07:002009-08-27T09:44:04.641-07:00Nicodemus was told that he must be born from above...Nicodemus was told that he must be born from above in order to see the kingdom. John 1:12-13 says a person must be born of the will of God and not the will of man. God does not command what we can do in our own power, but what He alone can do in us. We are commanded to believe in order to go to Him for a heart to believe. The statements listed tell a person what must be done but not that they must have God do those things in them. It is also true that for true belief a soul must have the life of God in it or it is not saved. It can believe the facts but still not have the life of God in it which is indicative of true faith. The 1689 gives the promise of the Gospel as God giving His Spirit to make the elect willing and able to believe. <br /><br />"So long as the creature is puffed up with a sense of his own ability to respond to God's requirements, he will never become a suppliant at the footstool of divine mercy" (Pink)RichardShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18366661721715080133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-53692637771757100232009-08-22T16:01:10.189-07:002009-08-22T16:01:10.189-07:00accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior
I don't ...<i>accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior</i><br /><br />I don't see anything wrong with this statement, but I would precede it with explaining repentance and follow it with unpacking "Savior" and "Lord" in simple terms. I would want them to understand what it is they are supposed to accept. I have been sharing the gospel with kids a lot this year, so I have really had to think this through and boil it down. Hopefully I am on target!SolaMommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07569633683299802644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-14966376331555822062009-08-22T13:05:22.092-07:002009-08-22T13:05:22.092-07:00Faced with the question "What must I do to be...Faced with the question "What must I do to be saved?" I would answer<br />1. Understand who God is<br />2. Understand the nature of man<br />3. Understand that Jesus Christ alone can bridge that gap between man and God<br />4. Understand that God has a plan for His kingdom<br />This understanding will manifest itself in any number of ways:<br />• Repentance – Prayer, Turning away from our fleshly nature<br />• Public profession of faith (baptism)<br />• A commitment to serve the Lord<br />None of us have a perfect understanding of salvation at the time of our conversion. Most of us start as Arminians and ask “What must I do?” In time, we come to realize it wasn’t anything we did, but it was all what God has done. If it is God who acted and God who changed me, the question we ask is “What have I become?” I must understand that the only reason I can do is because God has changed what I am. I come to understand that I didn’t become saved, but instead I realized I was saved, and that my behavior must and will change accordingly.<br />200 words is tough!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80649574983648004792009-08-22T04:38:42.138-07:002009-08-22T04:38:42.138-07:00I think God is pretty accepting of all our infanti...I think God is pretty accepting of all our infantile responses. When we first believe in Christ, we are babes and are not always sure how to frame our requests. He knows our sincerity, and is, I am sure, very forgiving if we say something silly. It is not how we ask, but is it done in faith, and only God knows that for sure.<br /><br />When we believe in Christ we hopefully understand our deep need for a Savior and our totally bankrupt state without Him, this leads us **inevitably** to repentance. I like the inevitability of believing in Christ. :) (May write something about this).<br /><br />God will take it from there and complete His good work in us. We are in capable hands! <br /><br />I enjoy your writing **very much**, Dan, and enjoy all the other authors here, too.Mary Elizabeth Tylerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08915438088186414796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-65435990041943625802009-08-21T11:12:44.967-07:002009-08-21T11:12:44.967-07:00After reading through all of the comments, I'm...After reading through all of the comments, I'm still amazed at all the variations of "Ask God to give you faith" or "Cry out to God to give you new life" or whatever, in spite of Dan's repeated reminder that we see no evidence of that kind of Gospel call anywhere in the New Testament. Not even once do the apostles say anything remotely similar to "You can't save yourself, so ask God to save you."greglonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05514850772020363684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-63595290179345872522009-08-20T11:23:34.974-07:002009-08-20T11:23:34.974-07:00Joshua:
Did I call it an Arminian position? No!
...Joshua:<br /><br />Did I call it an Arminian position? No!<br /><br />In fact, I wrote:<br /><br />"But no, I wouldn't deign to consider that representative of the classical Arminian position, either. It is, however, archetypal of what passes for much of 'evangelism' in this day and age though, unfortunately."<br /><br />You seem to be pressing this point, when it was never cited as an example of "Arminianism" in the first place. (See DJP's comment from 4:07 p.m. on August 19th.)Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-72044326873822392362009-08-20T07:06:07.780-07:002009-08-20T07:06:07.780-07:00@Stefan - Yes, I've heard people use that &quo...@Stefan - Yes, I've heard people use that "God voted for you" line, and wanted to puke. However, it is no more "Arminian" than Daniel Dennet it a Calvinist for espousing compatibilist free will.<br /><br />Looking on Google to find examples of this error, and calling it "Arminian", is like throwing stones in a glass house. ESPECIALLY on this issue, considering that this blog one of the only places on the Calvinist blogs that I have found a reasonable discussion of the salvation call that doesn't devolve into retarded compatibilist sophistry. Dan's post is like a tall glass of fresh water specifically because such common sense is so rare among Calvinist bloggers. If we were to define John Calvin's position on salvation call purely by what Calvinist bloggers say, we would be doomed.JSAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00681934865643964687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-70302220571117825212009-08-20T00:11:05.574-07:002009-08-20T00:11:05.574-07:00I want to say that I respect the earnestness of be...I want to say that I respect the earnestness of believers who are genuinely trying to witness this way...even if their theology is muddled.<br /><br />And by the way, a search for:<br /><br />God "voted for you" "voted against you"<br /><br />turns up a lot more hits, with the protagonist being variously named as God [the Father] or Jesus, and the Adversary being identified by various names.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-6512057308281017212009-08-20T00:01:20.153-07:002009-08-20T00:01:20.153-07:00For the record, a Google search for the exact phra...For the record, a Google search for the exact phrase "God has voted for you, the Devil has voted against you" turns up <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22God+has+voted+for+you%2C+the+Devil+has+voted+against+you%22&meta=&aq=f&oq=" rel="nofollow">a few hits</a>, in a few of which (a Wordpress blog, a sermon transcript, an old Baptist church newsletter), the line is used earnestly as part of a Gospel presentation.<br /><br />But no, I wouldn't deign to consider that representative of the classical Arminian position, either. It is, however, archetypal of what passes for much of "evangelism" in this day and age though, unfortunately.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-31632444990284521302009-08-19T23:43:43.999-07:002009-08-19T23:43:43.999-07:00Dan,
Good clarifier. I think it's the point ...Dan,<br /><br />Good clarifier. I think it's the point I was trying to make. <br /><br />"<b>like</b> an Arminian"<br /><br />When being Biblical sounds Arminian your Calvinism has become unbiblical (and hence uncalvinish)Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01504277207295036311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-46447825625207700952009-08-19T21:23:29.940-07:002009-08-19T21:23:29.940-07:00As a few have pointed out, I think it's import...As a few have pointed out, I think it's important to figure out where a person is coming from, and what their current perspective is. Jesus brought forth the rich young ruler's condition with a few poignant remarks.<br /><br />If someone asked me the question, "What must I do to be saved?," I would ask "Umm...saved from what? And why do you need/want to be saved?"<br /><br />Their answer would reveal what they understand about themselves, their condition, and God. Then you take it from there, and be willing to spend hours, if not days, if not weeks, if not longer talking through the Gospel with them.SPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07539514640588443152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-9680771177883238512009-08-19T20:29:00.479-07:002009-08-19T20:29:00.479-07:00@Dan - Sorry; on second reading, you are right. Y...@Dan - Sorry; on second reading, you are right. You said that the answer would be neither Biblical nor Calvinist, which is correct. For what it's worth, that answer wouldn't be Arminian, either.JSAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00681934865643964687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-92065713749847058712009-08-19T19:47:28.235-07:002009-08-19T19:47:28.235-07:00Joshua — it is in no way a straw man. I have heard...<b>Joshua</b> — it is <i>in no way</i> a straw man. I have heard every one of those statements.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-5330408499986658872009-08-19T19:38:43.786-07:002009-08-19T19:38:43.786-07:00Jacob - Don't confuse the fact that faith is a...Jacob - Don't confuse the fact that faith is a gift, with the responsibility every man has to believe the Gospel and trust Christ. We appeal to men according to their responsibility irrespective of their self-impaired moral ability. "You would not" is Jesus' rebuke in Matt. 23:37 - not you "could not." The problem reside in the will. No, no man can will to change his own will. A sovereign work is needed. But his problem is unwillingness and thus the will is appealed to AND, he is fully responsible.Reidsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06226809027166182231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-6571581540773818212009-08-19T19:34:02.467-07:002009-08-19T19:34:02.467-07:00@stefan: It's a straw man, used by Calvinists ...@stefan: It's a straw man, used by Calvinists to smear Arminians. Of course, there are some self-professed Arminians who might agree with the sentiment, regardless of the fact that the quote is decidedly *not* a true representation of Arminius or other classical Arminians.<br /><br />It's just like how Arminians smear we Calvinists by saying that our answer to "What must I do to be saved?" is "You can do nothing, unless you are elect!". Sadly, I have seen Calvinists say exactly this, but their confusion doesn't make the Arminian smear any more honest. I'm glad DJP posted this, to rebut the typical Arminian smear.JSAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00681934865643964687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-89097081471022563222009-08-19T19:14:00.496-07:002009-08-19T19:14:00.496-07:00@stephan: I believe Phil Johnson said it in one of...@stephan: I believe Phil Johnson said it in one of his Shepherds Conference sessions. (He was using it as an example of Arminian-style evangelism). I don't believe I'd ever heard it said quite that way before but it is true enough that some form of that sentiment is what is conveyed in a gospel call where the it's portrayed as "up to them" whether they get saved or not.Jacobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17084189036334133951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-42925531557779303632009-08-19T18:15:48.200-07:002009-08-19T18:15:48.200-07:00Joel: if what you are saying is that you can't...Joel: if what you are saying is that you can't simply say you believe in Christ as insurance against going to hell, then we agree. On the other hand, if you are saying that you can't come to true belief in Christ due to fear of the wrath of God (and hell), then I respectfully disagree. And the verses you quoted do not support the later thesis.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-76641088593541077002009-08-19T17:46:48.912-07:002009-08-19T17:46:48.912-07:00Tim:
That's a unique perspective. But I disa...Tim:<br /><br />That's a unique perspective. But I disagree. As Matthew Henry said:<br /><br /><i>"The jailer needs not fear being called to an account for the escape of his prisoners, for they are all here....He is afraid he shall lose his soul</i>"Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-4001397708870803382009-08-19T17:32:47.234-07:002009-08-19T17:32:47.234-07:00I don't believe the Jailer had the eternal sal...I don't believe the Jailer had the eternal salvation of his soul in mind when he asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved."<br />I believed he wanted to be "saved" from the wrath of lord Caesar and Paul introduced him to the idea of another "Lord".<br />Salvation is of the Lord.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04115998327301053099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-64351684966493745822009-08-19T17:17:47.464-07:002009-08-19T17:17:47.464-07:00Hi Stefan ~ a very good reason why this wife &...Hi Stefan ~ a very good reason why this wife & mum should keep to keeping to her own knitting. :-)J♥Yce Burrowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14974221921014132431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-13485603466013299532009-08-19T17:10:21.070-07:002009-08-19T17:10:21.070-07:00No specific source.No specific source.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-12536143747349087762009-08-19T17:02:48.166-07:002009-08-19T17:02:48.166-07:00(I mean that earnestly, not in the "I know bu...(I mean that earnestly, not in the "I know but I'm being cheeky" kind of way.)Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-86849158118884812982009-08-19T17:02:13.956-07:002009-08-19T17:02:13.956-07:00Who said that? That sounds really familiar....Who said that? That sounds really familiar....Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-11989824658148968752009-08-19T16:07:50.219-07:002009-08-19T16:07:50.219-07:00Except I wouldn't agree that demanding a respo...Except <i>I</i> wouldn't agree that demanding a response is Arminian. It's Biblical, therefore Calvinistic.<br /><br />What would be neither would be to say, "It's all up to you. God has done everything He can. His hands are tied. God has voted for you, the Devil has voted against you — now you must cast the deciding vote!"DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-20802862712422172402009-08-19T16:05:01.313-07:002009-08-19T16:05:01.313-07:00Do not the apostles and the Scriptures teach the d...Do not the apostles and the Scriptures teach the doctrines we call Calvinism but preach like an Arminian, demanding a response of the human will?<br /><br />Why do so many Calvinists struggle to do the same?<br /><br />The Spirit gives the response, but the Lord still calls it forth through the apsotle/preacher/evangelist.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01504277207295036311noreply@blogger.com