tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post6346473613494518854..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: "Careful"Phil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger137125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-71681083407062118822012-02-08T15:53:45.204-08:002012-02-08T15:53:45.204-08:00Oh, sister, we're good (as the kids say), and ...Oh, sister, we're good (as the kids say), and you're always welcome here. God bless you and hubbie.<br /><br />I think this meta can be put to bed.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-50839761240106542482012-02-08T15:11:48.839-08:002012-02-08T15:11:48.839-08:00Candy,
My father in law pastored in that neck of ...Candy,<br /><br />My father in law pastored in that neck of the woods way back when and has shared how difficult it was in that area. Definitely praying for you as you shine the light in a dark place. He is with you and at work for your good. Bless you sister. <br /><br />SamSamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16385729083688529722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-60988768618911680012012-02-08T14:56:58.274-08:002012-02-08T14:56:58.274-08:00I want to apologize in public for my outburst. I a...I want to apologize in public for my outburst. I am just as frustrated over what is happening in the Body of Christ as anyone else. I want to stress again how much I appreciate the Pyro guys, and I don't think I did a good job of voicing my concerns and I made it personal. I did take your comments in a different way than they were intended Yankee, but then again, many nuances are lost sometimes on blogs. It is so different than a real conversation. We may have something going on in our minds we want to express but it just doesn't pan out on paper, so to speak. So personally, to Dan and Frank, my apologies, Please forgive me.candyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06088593538648596769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-6821398678336635672012-02-08T13:58:59.504-08:002012-02-08T13:58:59.504-08:00Tom,
Thanks for taking the ball I started rolling...Tom,<br /><br />Thanks for taking the ball I started rolling and running with it. It's nice to have you fill out the thoughts behind my brief post so eloquently. Now I know how Frank feels on a regular basis :)<br /><br /><br />rom623rom828,<br /><br />I'm sorry there was no further advice for you directly on this blog, but it is my firm belief that any prospective couselor for you on this matter <b>should not</b> give a fuller response until the questions I asked you are answered, whether here (which makes sense, since plea for help was made here) or in private correspondence.<br /><br /><br />yankeegospelgirl,<br /><br />You could always us the [/sarcasm] ;)Aaron Snellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08551668915973379312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-88604537866326102452012-02-08T13:57:44.793-08:002012-02-08T13:57:44.793-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Aaron Snellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08551668915973379312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-24671686296295075772012-02-08T12:05:38.911-08:002012-02-08T12:05:38.911-08:00Glad to hear it DJ. I just didn't know what to...Glad to hear it DJ. I just didn't know what to make of her comment.<br /><br />Yeah Tom, maybe I should have used a few appropriately placed scare quotes to avoid all confusion. ;)yankeegospelgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15196429275212180022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-8432713457860056602012-02-08T11:59:04.971-08:002012-02-08T11:59:04.971-08:00@Tom
You gave them 3 hours and 21 minutes. That&#...@Tom<br /><br /><i>You gave them 3 hours and 21 minutes. That's being ignored in a living room, but on a blog?</i><br /><br />I stand corrected. I'll keep reading and await a response.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33949041203480854032012-02-08T11:45:43.739-08:002012-02-08T11:45:43.739-08:00No one from Team Pyro publicly responded to rom623...<i>No one from Team Pyro publicly responded to rom623, thus my assertion that his comment was ignored.</i><br /><br />You gave them 3 hours and 21 minutes. That's being ignored in a living room, but on a blog? They have jobs. For Frank, those hours included rush hour. I saw the comment right away, had to ponder it, saw Aaron start the ball rolling, and decided to wait. But they get a few hours and then they've ignored him?<br /><br />Just guessing here, but it wouldn't surprise me if Phil's first read-through of this corner of the blog happens sometime Thursday afternoon!<br /><br />Look, there's nothing to argue here. You've made some excellent and useful points. I still don't think anybody got ignored, but I appreciate the things you've reminded me of.Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-11322203904111036062012-02-08T11:38:40.520-08:002012-02-08T11:38:40.520-08:00@Tom:
"But there are some very significant w...@Tom:<br /><br /><i>"But there are some very significant ways in which a blog is not a living room, and we can't always expect help and fellowship to look exactly like they would in another setting."</i> Absolutely. A blog and/or blog thread is not a living room (I like that metaphor) and is certainly no substitute for in-person/face-to-face fellowship and spiritual help.<br /><br /><i>"You may be ignored, just like rom623rom828. Ignored? When? By whom?"</i><br /><br />No one from Team Pyro publicly responded to rom623, thus my assertion that his comment was ignored.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-11194215671696026182012-02-08T11:32:34.911-08:002012-02-08T11:32:34.911-08:00yankeegospelgoyl:
Candy's a good sister, and ...yankeegospelgoyl:<br /><br />Candy's a good sister, and I love her and her husband in the Lord. We had a delightful dinner together at a local Reformed conference. Sounds like it's rough in NE, and I pray she's blessed in her fellowship.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-57728078673112074932012-02-08T11:28:26.891-08:002012-02-08T11:28:26.891-08:00About leaving:
I'm not in your shoes and can&...About leaving:<br /><br />I'm not in your shoes and can't tell you what to do.<br /><br />As a member, you make a promise to be an active part of the local congregation. You must decide, Scripturally, whether your promise can be broken.<br /><br />Second, no church is perfect, no congregation is perfect, no individual member is perfect, and no Pastor is perfect. Just keep that in mind as you weigh your situation.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-83014427668120651072012-02-08T11:25:45.662-08:002012-02-08T11:25:45.662-08:00@ yankeegospelgirl (aka the other Phil),
Hey, iro...@ yankeegospelgirl (aka the <i>other</i> Phil),<br /><br />Hey, irony can be tough - especially with someone you don't know. Before I posted my comment praising your post I actually had to hesitate and reread. I <i>thought</i> you were mocking the "haters" speech, but was I <i>sure</i>?<br /><br />You can see how someone thought you were seriously rebuking Dan, and then...oh, let's not complicate it any further. Candy meant you no harm.Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-89910849220742486072012-02-08T11:22:23.832-08:002012-02-08T11:22:23.832-08:00@ Jules,
Two thoughts:
First, it's easy to ...@ Jules,<br /><br />Two thoughts: <br /><br />First, it's easy to get focused on the leaders and to forget that sometimes their followers are listening also. You're right that we need to remember for whom we are doing this.<br /><br />Second, there are at least two types of help. One type involves sounding a clarion call: "This is wrong! Pay attention to it!" That is truly helpful, and we need to do it. On the other hand, it is much more difficult to help the individual in the church who needs to figure out what to do. The transition from one to the other is not always seamless. Still, you're right - we need to do this also if we really want to be helpful.<br /><br />What I would be cautious about is the assumption that this can happen in "real-time" on a blog. I have no idea when Phil, Dan, and/or Frank even saw the comments or what else they were doing at the time. It's a team blog, and there can always be the hope that someone else will have more time to step in and answer a difficult question. <br /><br />I've interacted with rom623rom828 before, and when I read that first comment I thought to myself, "Well, that's a sticky question, isn't it." Meanwhile I was composing my post for today, which touches tangentially on the question. Then Aaron Snell posted what had to be the first question, and as there was no immediate response, it didn't seem that the discussion was moving quickly. I filed it in my brain for today, when my post would be polished and out in the open.<br /><br />Why the long exercise in self-defense? Because of this:<br /><br /><i>You may be ignored, just like rom623rom828</i><br /><br />Ignored? When? By whom?<br /><br />Look, you've brought up some good points. We need to be concerned not only about the false shepherds, but about their true sheep. Excellent point - and well worth remembering. Helping may wind up meaning more than merely pointing and shouting, "Wolf! Wolf!" Another excellent point. But there are some very significant ways in which a blog is not a living room, and we can't always expect help and fellowship to look exactly like they would in another setting.Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-13718436639538572412012-02-08T10:53:44.936-08:002012-02-08T10:53:44.936-08:00How funny. I just now read Candy's comment. I ...How funny. I just now read Candy's comment. I know most everyone else reading already knows this but... I was making fun of Steve Furtick's "haters" video by pretending to shake my finger at DJP in a similar way. She took me literally!<br /><br />No idea what the point of her comment was supposed to be. I just read and scratched my head.yankeegospelgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15196429275212180022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-76058140534190840322012-02-08T10:38:46.723-08:002012-02-08T10:38:46.723-08:00@Tom
"I remain convinced that in no way shou...@Tom<br /><br /><i>"I remain convinced that in no way should Phil (who is a pastor), Dan or Frank (who are not), or any commenters here - pastoral or otherwise - be chastised for failing to post an answer."</i><br /><br />I respectfully disagree, Tom and I will expand my comments to add that we should <i>all</i> (pastor or lay person), myself included, be chastised for failing to post a response to rom623. Here's why:<br /><br />The gentlemen at Pyromaniacs have repeatedly expressed concern regarding the Elephant Room, James MacDonald's embrace of T.D. Jakes and the silence from TGC, apparently to no avail. The Pyros are not alone in this position. Many brothers and sisters have expressed the same grave concerns.<br /><br />The root of these concerns, as I understand it, is the desire to uphold the integrity of the Gospel and sincere regard for the sheep. It seems clear now that these admonishments and exhortations went unheeded by the "elitists", as Dan calls them. Should we be surprised by this? Probably not, as this is what elitists often do.<br /><br />However, the warnings <i>were</i> heeded by some. Did the elitists listen? No. But, rom623 did and he came here for help. <br /><br />julesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-62650425054065004892012-02-08T09:05:01.348-08:002012-02-08T09:05:01.348-08:00@ Jules,
If that's so, I'm very sorry. S...@ Jules,<br /><br />If that's so, I'm very sorry. Still trying to read your last comment yesterday in another light.Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-12586437231876304522012-02-08T09:04:15.447-08:002012-02-08T09:04:15.447-08:00DJP,
Yeah, I read that post by trogdor and I hone...DJP,<br /><br />Yeah, I read that post by trogdor and I honestly can't add more than I'll be praying for him to exercise wisdom in how he handles all of this. It is hard to speak to specifics because only he knows the dynamics of the situation within the local church he attends. I will say that it amazes me how he pulls so many resources together for his posts. the Local Churches thing still creeps me out.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13987985549747283669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-4713376814362215992012-02-08T08:49:04.917-08:002012-02-08T08:49:04.917-08:00@Tom
You have misjudged my intentions.
jules
WV...@Tom<br /><br />You have misjudged my intentions.<br /><br />jules<br /><br />WV: tableAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-42611331275177570382012-02-08T08:16:59.916-08:002012-02-08T08:16:59.916-08:00BTW, our regular and excellent commenter Trogdor i...BTW, our regular and excellent commenter <a href="http://mindofmachel.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Trogdor is also a member of HBC, struggling through these issues</a>. Anyone wanting to discuss that situation with him on the ground-level should check out and comment on his blog.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-16793449835354523412012-02-08T02:18:55.483-08:002012-02-08T02:18:55.483-08:00@ Jules,
Your comment wounds, but I believe it on...@ Jules,<br /><br />Your comment wounds, but I believe it only does so because you intend it that way. I don't actually believe that the charge of pastoral indifference works in the way you're trying to make it work. <br /><br />My thoughts were on the way before you posted. I remain convinced that in no way should Phil (who is a pastor), Dan or Frank (who are not), or any commenters here - pastoral or otherwise - be chastised for failing to post an answer.<br /><br />That I think this doesn't change the fact that I respect your very helpful participation in this discussion and continue to value your opinions highly.<br /><br />@ rom623rom828,<br /><br />For what it's worth, my final (I think) thoughts on what this debacle says about the ministry at HBC are at my personal blog today. (the crbc one, not the gadfly group blog) <br /><br />I still think Aaron Snell asked a crucial question - although I can understand your not wanting to share that information here. There is a world of difference between merely attending a church and covenenting with it through membership. If you are not a member, it makes sense to go somewhere where you can fully commit yourself to the life of a church. If, on the other hand, you are a member, that means two things. First, while there are legitimate reasons to leave a church, that decision should never be taken lightly. Second, if it is time, there is a right way to leave - and a great number of wrong ways. Loud, angry denunciations of leadership is a wrong way, but so is a quiet, unexplained disappearance. As Aaron said, talk to your pastor.Tom Chantryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485908616177111150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-21537061333316144632012-02-07T22:22:52.694-08:002012-02-07T22:22:52.694-08:00I gave this post a 5-star rating as soon as I got ...I gave this post a 5-star rating as soon as I got to ""Oh merciful heavens and frisky penguins, not that!"<br /><br />How un-careful of me :-D<br /><br />Seriously DJP, great clarification on this now-muddled word. <br /><br />Just don't be so angry next time. (KIDDING!)Charlenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13361921772340278114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-66201253517489630932012-02-07T21:43:11.389-08:002012-02-07T21:43:11.389-08:00Thanks for all the feedback about whether to "...Thanks for all the feedback about whether to "stay or go" at HBC. <br /><br />I'll mull things over some more.rom623rom828https://www.blogger.com/profile/12218793043467137920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-6949101476464091162012-02-07T21:14:42.541-08:002012-02-07T21:14:42.541-08:00Dan,
In the future, if perchance you think that yo...Dan,<br />In the future, if perchance you think that you may have some knowledge of any form of impending badness, please show caution to appear more humble and winsome by mentioning it once only, and try to do so as anonymously as practical while balancing ....<br /><br />Ah nevermind, <br />Brother you smell smoke, you holler until we move. Your record is good enough to warrant an audience <br /><br />Wv: inocenz. ??? Not too muchmikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14913016967172516774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-79700489236461499412012-02-07T19:12:21.655-08:002012-02-07T19:12:21.655-08:00Disclaimer: I am not a pastor. I didn't even s...Disclaimer: I am not a pastor. I didn't even stay in a holiday in last night.<br /><br />@rom623rom828<br /><br />Park here for a week of solid reading: http://teampyro.blogspot.com/search/label/stay%20or%20go<br /><br />I think your question has already been answered by the Pyro guys, especially Frank Turk.<br /><br />I know that it helped me as when it was written I was considering leaving a church.VcdeChagnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09061295600050633057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80707440273717383492012-02-07T18:48:09.640-08:002012-02-07T18:48:09.640-08:00Actually, I expected more than that, Tom. I expect...Actually, I expected more than that, Tom. I expected any/all of the numerous pastors who comment here regularly, in this very thread even, to respond to rom623rom828.<br /><br />Could anyone give him "specific stay-or-go advice" in a blog thread? Of course not. No on is suggesting that. What they could have said was something like, <br /><br />"That is a question which really can't be answered in a comment thread, but I would be happy to communicate with you personally and I will be praying for you and your family."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com