tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post7386033436455117325..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Best of centuri0n: Coleco vs. NFLPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger112125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-15804458678893554002009-10-17T16:58:31.843-07:002009-10-17T16:58:31.843-07:00Last thoughts have been received.
Thread is close...Last thoughts have been received.<br /><br />Thread is closed.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-69619017294598668752009-10-16T15:36:29.548-07:002009-10-16T15:36:29.548-07:00Frank
In regards to my "shut your yap remar...<b> Frank </b><br /><br />In regards to my "shut your yap remark", I lost my temper for a moment there. I'm sorry. I should have responded better. Hope you'll forgive me.Chad V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02478790778245966382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-9530145858426738092009-10-16T13:45:36.500-07:002009-10-16T13:45:36.500-07:00Frank,
Thanks for the work that you and the other ...Frank,<br />Thanks for the work that you and the other Pyros do here. I am blessed by this blog daily.<br /><br />I agree with the overall point you made in this post--if anyone remembers what it was. I was one who did not agree with all of the conclusions drawn from the principles you laid out.<br /><br />It's regretable that this thing got so heated. I think that a blog is a great place to share, discuss, debate...even disagree. However, I haven't before thanked you for the efforts you and the gents make here daily. I praise God for the wisdom he has granted Team Pyro... and I am one beneficiary. Love, in Christ.SandManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04003338922805271638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-61004189752266109332009-10-16T11:22:13.670-07:002009-10-16T11:22:13.670-07:00Trogdor:
...or one of you could actually take up ...<b>Trogdor</b>:<br /><br /><i>...or one of you could actually take up the challenge and show that he's wrong. </i><br /><br />I'm a little more matured than to be suckered whenever somebody calls me "chicken." I'm discussing it here and I'm not inclined to take it outside, so to speak.<br /><br /><b>TUAD</b>:<br /><br /><i>This thread very ably demonstrates why I no longer read Frank's own blog and rarely read his scribblings here at Pyro."</i><br /><br />I'm not at all onboard with this statement. I know you were quoting somebody else, but Frank is a brother, hopefully a friend (although I've never met him) and as such deserves our respect and <i>affection</i>. Whatever fine points of doctrine over which we presently disagree, it is not serious enough to come between us is it? It's this kinda thing that I think Frank's main thrust is meant to address. We shouldn't break fellowship over non-crucial issues.<br /><br /><i>Gosh, I hope he doesn't turn into another Internet Monk. One of those dish-it-out-but-can't-take it bullies wearing a victim mask. Then everyone has to walk on eggshells, and it really squelches discussion because the blog readership knows that constructive disagreement is apt to be misinterpreted.</i><br /><br />It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. You, I, and some others would argue that the rational, logical conclusion that is inferred from Frank's writings on this subject is that it's never right to leave a church unless some mathematically impossible event happens, say for instance, a meteor strikes the church during Sunday morning services. Frank's response is that he never said that. You provide examples, he explains it away. Hyperbole generates seething responses. At that point, it's not a friendly discussion anymore, it's an argument. When it degenerates to that degree it's time to reconcile and move on, even if it has the unfortunate side effect of squelching future discussions.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-36882971759360497142009-10-16T07:23:08.037-07:002009-10-16T07:23:08.037-07:00Jim W: "Frank Kettle-meet Pot Black.
This t...<b>Jim W</b>: "<i>Frank Kettle-meet Pot Black.<br /><br />This thread very ably demonstrates why I no longer read Frank's own blog and rarely read his scribblings here at Pyro."</i><br /><br />On the positive side, this thread ably demonstrates that not all regular Pyromaniac readers are sycophant suck-ups. Some people might criticize (or have criticized) that all regular Pyromaniac readers are unthinking guppy-swallowers to whatever the Pyro-authors write. This thread shows that that's not true.<br /><br /><b>Sir Aaron</b>: "<i>He's also seemingly sensitive to the criticism he's received</i>"<br /><br />Gosh, I hope he doesn't turn into another Internet Monk. One of those dish-it-out-but-can't-take it bullies wearing a victim mask. Then everyone has to walk on eggshells, and it really squelches discussion because the blog readership knows that constructive disagreement is apt to be misinterpreted.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-71509838117414194652009-10-16T07:08:55.720-07:002009-10-16T07:08:55.720-07:00Trogdor,
Despite your insult-by-innuendo comment ...Trogdor,<br /><br />Despite your insult-by-innuendo comment (or perhaps those were direct insults), your comment makes my point very nicely. A point which others have also made in this thread too. The point is that Scripture doesn't address the situation (and yes, there are sufficient details in the John Doe example. <b>He left</b> a liberal United Methodist Church.) definitively. And that was the point.<br /><br />Second, I'm so glad that you agree that there are times when it's appropriate to leave. Thanks for affirming what Strategm has already written:<br /><br />"But the most important point by far is that the guidelines for when one can leave and when one shouldn't are <b>indefinite</b> in Scripture, to my knowledge, so perhaps we shouldn't draw a hard red line in such cases?"<br /><br />Third, trying to make hard-and-fast theological red lines where Scripture is indefinite is a "terribly tiresome practice".<br /><br />Here's a fruit that occurs from crafting theological pronouncements where Scripture is indefinite:<br /><br />"I did, however, come away from today's reading with not only the sense that you ignored my comments, but that me and people like me were broad-labeled as whiny, disgruntled, heretic searchers."<br /><br />Fourth, you wrote: "Suppose the answer is yes, this mysterious stranger sinned. All that would prove is that mysterious stranger is an imperfect sinner."<br /><br /><b>Then tell that to Centuri0n.</b> So the person left a church and Centuri0n declares it's a sin. As you said, "All that would prove is that mysterious stranger is an imperfect sinner."<br /><br />Thank you.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-74788105219082732242009-10-16T06:24:00.933-07:002009-10-16T06:24:00.933-07:00Well, Like I said before all the texts he's ci...Well, Like I said before all the texts he's cited are about how Pastors are to shepherd their flocks. They have nothing to do with how the flock should react to a pastor who denies important doctrines and puts a stumbling block in the way the Christian. Rom 16:17<br /><br />He's also loaded his comments with erroneous statements like if one leaves a church he's determined that a pastor is irredeemably condemned, or that he necessarily disfellowships from the true Christians there. Those are transparently false statements and debating someone who does that repeatedly is really difficult. I for one don't have the time or energy for that right now.<br /><br />And he hasn't made the rest clear at all in my opinion. When people have tried to ask about different situations which are valid questions to ask he's been dismissive and condescending. <br /><br />There are lots of legitimate reasons why a Christian might leave one church for another. Those have ben completely ignored. The bible does not restrict Christians to remain in one congregation until they're kicked out (that seems to have been Frank's only caveat to his broad sweeping rule). <br /><br />The texts Frank has cited are a better argument for the necessity of being part of a local church and worshiping with the saints but they don't restrict a Christian to a particular group of saints. <br /><br />The issue has been raised repeatedly here on Pyro that unless one is either a pastor or qualified to be a pastor then one isn't qualified to judge the fitness of a pastor or his ministry. That's not even remotely a true statement and it would make it impossible for Christians to use any discrimination in finding a new church if they moved to another state ore even another town a significant distance from their current church for instance. <br /><br />So Frank, I like you and I think you have a lot of valuable things to say but I think you need approach this subject more carefully in the future keeping in mind that people shouldn't have to go look up everything you've ever written on this subject in order to understand your point.Chad V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02478790778245966382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-31152424173524028152009-10-16T05:20:01.999-07:002009-10-16T05:20:01.999-07:00TUAD, I would suggest the following things:
1) Th...TUAD, I would suggest the following things:<br /><br />1) There simply isn't enough detail there to render judgment on this case. You still seem to be arguing against the "never leave, ever" strawman. (Well, arguing is probably the wrong word. Instigating or fight-picking might be more accurate.) Regardless, as Frank has stated repeatedly through this thread and many others, there are times when it's appropriate to leave. Your little snippet from this mysterious stranger isn't enough to judge either way.<br /><br />2) What is the actual point of you question? Suppose the answer is yes, this mysterious stranger sinned. All that would prove is that mysterious stranger is an imperfect sinner - which I can guarantee he'd be the first to admit. Or I could, if we had any way of knowing who this totally random stranger was.<br /><br />And if the answer's no, that he was right to leave? All that would show is that there are times when it's appropriate to leave. Which nobody is denying or has denied.<br /><br />3) Theology-by-anecdote is a terribly tiresome practice.<br /><br />4) I can lay out the scriptural case for "stay as long as it's an actual church" here if you want. I can also break the news that, if you take a round object and put a stick through the centers, you can use this crazy newfangled invention for easier transportation.<br /><br />Seriously, Frank has laid out his case repeatedly here and at his blog in multiple series. While not in perfect agreement, I'm close enough that sure, I'll sign on. Especially since, when given an open forum and free reign to challenge that view from scripture, not a single person has been able to put forth a worthwhile objection.<br /><br />I think we would all agree that our theology should be built from scripture, not from anecdotes and exceptions, yes? This would include ecclesiology, would it not?<br /><br />By this point Frank has devoted somewhere along the lines of 1.21 gigawords to examining scripture and developing his case. He has repeatedly asked, begged, practically <i>dared</i> you, since are so sure he's wrong, to produce even one verse that contradicts him. The fact that you're not even trying, but simply producing hypotheticals or dissension-stirring, that doesn't bode well for your case.trogdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452996348717802065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-43300899701113642522009-10-15T23:39:57.418-07:002009-10-15T23:39:57.418-07:00Trogdor: How about the seven churches Jesus addres...Trogdor: <b><i>How about the seven churches Jesus addresses in Revelation, most of which have big enough problems that Jesus threatens them? There simply must be an admonition to the pure to light up a new lampstand down the road, or just have all the good ones move to Philadelphia and get the podcast from Ephesus.</i></b><br /><br />That's interesting you mention the 7 churches in Revelation. Everyone should actually read very closely the description of each of the 7 churches. It's no accident the the Lord chose these 7 churches. I'm one of those guys that has no problem saying that Revelation is a book of physical prophecy but there is indeed, great, great, great great spiritual prophecy and truth in Revelation.<br /><br />If we read the description of each of those 7 churches in Revelation we will find that the each of those churches are represented in America. I have no doubt that we can pick any country in the world where Christianity has been present for some time and those countries too have churches which are represented by the 7 churches. <br /><br />I also have no doubt that each and every generation where the church has existed had churches in their provinces which was represented by the 7 churches. <br /><br />I don't have a dog in this fight between Frank and Chad and I suppose there is an element of truth in what both are saying. But the apostle John wasn't kidding when he said blessed is the person who reads aloud the words of this prophecy and blessed are those who hear and keep what is written in it. (Dang it, there goes the idea that Revelation or eschatology is not that important...but I digress). <br /><br /><b>Chad</b> - Frank may be hitting on to something, Chad. He’s already made clear he’s not talking about Mormon “church” or Kingdom Hall (they’re not churches). Frank has also made clear that he never said never leave. But I think he’s on to something because we have to remember, Jesus called these gatherings churches. And as I mentioned in an earlier comment, the general picture in the NT of what is meant by the “church” is a local gathering of saints where the presence and the Lordship of Christ is recognized. In other words, there were those in these local manifestations who were truly born again and spiritual people who are also members of the unseen spiritual church. Jesus called these local gatherings churches. 5 out of 7 of these churches were in baaaad shape. And if my memory serves me correct, Jesus didn’t call them houses of Baal worship (maybe one or two were pretty close), but he called them churches. I think it’s food for thought, Chad.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-8447520925499948252009-10-15T21:30:34.562-07:002009-10-15T21:30:34.562-07:00Trogdor,
What does Scripture say about a John Do...Trogdor, <br /><br />What does Scripture say about a John Doe who had the following experience:<br /><br />"I had grown up in an extremely liberal United Methodist Church, where I had no exposure whatsoever to evangelicalism. Frankly, I don't remember ever hearing anything about the gospel in all those years in the Methodist church."<br /><br />And then this John Doe subsequently left this liberal United Methodist Church. Trogdor, what does Scripture say about John Doe having left the liberal United Methodist Church he was in?Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-23946858414331371772009-10-15T21:16:48.726-07:002009-10-15T21:16:48.726-07:00sir aaron
Ah, I see. That's what he means. (s...<b> sir aaron</b><br />Ah, I see. That's what he means. (smacks forehead). Who knew that pseudonym was an adverb? <br /><br />Well, I'm not using a pseudonym and there's nothing veiled about my comments.<br /><br />The reason Old Truth is on my profile is because I used to write and co-moderate with Jim on that blog until Jim's illness forced him to close it down. Besides I've got as much info as anyone else on my blogger profile. Guess I should update it though.<br /><br />Time for nighty-night.Chad V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02478790778245966382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-4574349554137865082009-10-15T20:44:10.858-07:002009-10-15T20:44:10.858-07:00...or one of you could actually take up the challe......or one of you could actually take up the challenge and show that he's wrong. If he's as clearly wrong as everyone's insisting, it should be child's play to prove it scripturally. So far there've been two or three really weak and easily defeated attempts using scripture, and a whole lot of whaddabouts, many of which are aimed at points Frank didn't even come close to making.<br /><br />Honestly, it's not like the NT isn't full of messages to rotten churches. How hard can it possibly be to make your case from two letters to Corinth? You've got legalism gone wild in Galatia - surely there must be clear direction in that letter for the pure believers to split out and form a new church, right? How about the seven churches Jesus addresses in Revelation, most of which have big enough problems that Jesus threatens them? There simply must be an admonition to the pure to light up a new lampstand down the road, or just have all the good ones move to Philadelphia and get the podcast from Ephesus.<br /><br />No? That's odd.trogdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452996348717802065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-86514252110884190452009-10-15T20:12:03.910-07:002009-10-15T20:12:03.910-07:00Chad V.:
I think Frank means that your admonition...Chad V.:<br /><br />I think Frank means that your admonitions are given from behind a Psuedonym (being that your website refers to Jim B and your handle is Chad V.). Some on Pyromaniacs are incredibly sensitive about those who post without any identifying information (I only added info to my bio after being told in no uncertain terms that I had broken this taboo).<br /><br />I agree that Frank tends to take, to use your words, "broad sweeping universal dogmatic stances." It's fairly easy to come to this conclusion from this series as well as his series "Not to Be Taken Lightly" at his own blog. Incidentally, he's taken similarly excessive stances on the qualification of elders. Then when legitimate, plausible exceptions are brought up that contradict his stance, he's been equally dismissive of those as extreme examples that prove the rule. However, he has said on at least one occasion, "I'm still the same guy who said all the other things I have said in time and space, and you have to take some of that into consideration when you start with the "whaddabouts". So perhaps he's made a better case in previous posts.<br /><br />He's also seemingly sensitive to the criticism he's received, his d-blog challenges notwithstanding. After all, he did write over 600 words replying to my clearly hyperbolic and rhetorical post. <br /><br />Personally, I'll just chalk it up to my evidently poor reading comprehension skills. I humbly suggest that it would be best if we just let it go without further ado.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-74353024651790783652009-10-15T20:10:43.210-07:002009-10-15T20:10:43.210-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-26308162286488778092009-10-15T19:27:48.836-07:002009-10-15T19:27:48.836-07:00Frank, I've been threatening to do this to you...Frank, I've been threatening to <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgqozph5GZA&feature=related" rel="nofollow">do this to you</a> for a while. I know you'll forgive me, being the courtly Southern gentleman that you are....Solameaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869424956571944997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-20854307204315415552009-10-15T17:02:58.844-07:002009-10-15T17:02:58.844-07:00Funny, I looked up the word "pseudonymically&...Funny, I looked up the word "pseudonymically" and as many variations of that word as I could think of. Since I couldn't find a definition for it I'll have to conclude that it's not even real word so unless Frank feels like cluing me on the definition I guess the miscommunication will continue. <br /><br />97....Chad V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02478790778245966382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-53769962751868889312009-10-15T15:58:55.021-07:002009-10-15T15:58:55.021-07:00I am 100% sure that you people can get to 100 comm...I am 100% sure that you people can get to 100 comments if you try.<br /><br />I'll lock up tommorow some time.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-30062661220942643512009-10-15T12:10:07.952-07:002009-10-15T12:10:07.952-07:00Ooops. The dimensions of my matrix are incorrectl...Ooops. The dimensions of my matrix are incorrectly labeled. It should be Good Sheep and Bad Sheep along one dimension. And Good Shepherd/Church and Bad Shepherd/Church along the other dimension.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-16821093716665199272009-10-15T12:05:58.644-07:002009-10-15T12:05:58.644-07:00Chad V.,
I honestly thought that Centuri0n was m...Chad V., <br /><br />I honestly thought that Centuri0n was making an untenable over-reach in his arguments as well. But he probably doesn't think so. In which case it's probably a matter of misunderstanding which could have been prevented by Centuri0n improving his writing/communication skills or his interlocutors improving their comprehension/interpretation skills or a combination of both. Is this sufficiently charitable?<br /><br />Lastly, I offer this up as a possibly helpful (albeit rough) grid. It's not all encompassing. Imagine a 2x2 matrix or grid. Along one dimension, the categories of "Good" and "Bad" (this has elements of both subjectivity and objectivity). On the other dimension put "Sheep" and "Shepherd/Church".<br /><br />Good Sheep + Good Shepherd/Church: It's good.<br /><br />Bad Sheep + Bad Shepherd/Church: It's bad.<br /><br />Bad Sheep + Good Shepherd/Church: No one disagrees with the proposition that bad sheep should stay in or with a Good Shepherd/Church. No one.<br /><br />Good Sheep + Bad Shepherd/Church: It's in this box or cell that vigorous discussion occurs.<br /><br />FWIW, I do not and would not argue that good sheep must stay in and with a bad shepherd/church.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-57347132515298007872009-10-15T11:17:25.444-07:002009-10-15T11:17:25.444-07:00Finally Frank.
Yes people leave churches for sill...Finally<b> Frank</b>.<br /><br />Yes people leave churches for silly dumb and even sinful or spiteful reasons all the time. Your post didn't make that qualification. You made a broad sweeping universal assertion and when people tried to discern your intent or determine a qualification by suggesting extreme examples you simply maintained your broad sweeping universal dogmatic stance.Chad V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02478790778245966382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-54709969954188348772009-10-15T10:30:25.146-07:002009-10-15T10:30:25.146-07:00I have no idea what "pseudonymically-veiled a...I have no idea what "pseudonymically-veiled admonitions" even means and honestly I don't think your remark about my comments have any general merit in the first place. <br /><br />See Frank, to leave a church over differences of theology does not equal disfellowship. It's a major flaw in your premise. Dare I say an extreme.<br /><br />Now then, your comment about my theology having no place for reconciliation is baseless and the personal attack on that front isn't much in keeping with what you've just criticized me of. But no matter, it's water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned. I don't hold it against you.Chad V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02478790778245966382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-5175492029608599382009-10-15T10:24:58.313-07:002009-10-15T10:24:58.313-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Chad V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02478790778245966382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-43402578548509214352009-10-15T09:49:20.556-07:002009-10-15T09:49:20.556-07:00As an addendum to my immediately prior comment, le...As an addendum to my immediately prior comment, let me recap what BP wrote:<br /><br /><i>"I did, however, come away from today's reading with not only the sense that you ignored my comments, but that me and people like me were broad-labeled as whiny, disgruntled, heretic searchers."</i><br /><br />Suppose Centuri0n knew BP in real life. Would he have wrote differently in his comments if he knew her and her situation in real life?<br /><br />Same general principle at work in the exchanges between Centuri0n and Chad V.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-6611805139570692052009-10-15T09:28:30.283-07:002009-10-15T09:28:30.283-07:00(One more comment while I have time.)
DJP has wro...(One more comment while I have time.)<br /><br />DJP has wrongfully accused me of desiring to see a fight between friends on his thread today.<br /><br />(I'm posting my follow-up on this thread because I don't want to derail that thread.)<br /><br />Here's my comment which sparked his false accusation:<br /><br />[DJP] "And stay in a church where the Word is taught and practiced, pedal to the metal; and where a pastor takes to heart the care of your soul (Hebrews 13:17)."<br /><br />As I mentioned before, this may be mere coincidence, but this exhortation echoes Centuri0n's comments in the thread of his immediately prior post. By and large, I don't think any regular TeamPyro reader would disagree with this counsel.<br /><br />However, I should like to kindly ask whether you'd agree with a logical corollary to your counsel:<br /><br />"If you're in a church where the Word is *not* taught and practiced, petal to the metal, and where a pastor (or pastoral staff) does *not* take to heart the care of your soul, then you have freedom to seek God's will about departing from that church in whatever God-glorifying manner He leads you."<br /><br />As an example (and I mentioned this in the prior thread) I offer up Pyromaniac Phil Johnson's journey:<br /><br />"I had grown up in an extremely liberal United Methodist Church, where I had no exposure whatsoever to evangelicalism. Frankly, I don't remember ever hearing anything about the gospel in all those years in the Methodist church."<br /><br />Phil subsequently left this liberal United Methodist Church. And his departure is an example of the corollary that I just submitted for your review."<br /><br />This raises an interesting issue. What role does it play that DJP knows Phil Johnson? What if I said that it was "John Doe" who reported this?<br /><br /><b>John Doe</b>: "I had grown up in an extremely liberal United Methodist Church, where I had no exposure whatsoever to evangelicalism. Frankly, I don't remember ever hearing anything about the gospel in all those years in the Methodist church."<br /><br />Would DJP then agree with the logical corollary to his proposition? Just because it's a "John Doe" and not a Phil Johnson? If so, then let me switch it out and say that a "John Doe" reported this experience. The logical corollary still holds.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-84617703704675327332009-10-15T09:20:30.082-07:002009-10-15T09:20:30.082-07:00"Your personal works may show your faith: my ..."Your personal works may show your faith: my suggestion to you is to teach others to do the say. The theology from your "yap" doesn;t match the theology you report you live by."<br />Frank Kettle-meet Pot Black.<br />This thread very ably demonstrates why I no longer read Frank's own blog and rarely read his scribblings here at Pyro.Jim Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03336853954733633351noreply@blogger.com