tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post7530039051353350238..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Book review — The Doctrine of the Word of God, by John FramePhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33499424584391149292012-10-01T15:38:24.941-07:002012-10-01T15:38:24.941-07:00Leaving aside names, yes, the issue is the stateme...Leaving aside names, yes, the issue is the statement of inerrancy. When we Christians say that we believe that the autographs are inerrant, then agree that we do not currently possess the original manuscripts, non-Christians attempt an "aha." Frame makes clear that we shouldn't give the impression that <i>the original sheet of papyrus</i> (or whatever) is God-breathed; it is <i>the original text</i> that is God-breathed. And we do possess that text, though we don't yet possess the original material on which it was recorded.<br /><br />Frame does discuss translations. I'm sure everyone who follows my recommendation will find his discussion profitable.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-52717421221431300192012-10-01T14:13:50.563-07:002012-10-01T14:13:50.563-07:00DJP, Nonna-ism...you've coined a phrase for me...DJP, <i>Nonna-ism</i>...you've coined a phrase for me! But really, I am insignificant in comparison to the giants of the Christian faith. Anything I am that might glorify Christ is due to His magnificent love, mercy, and grace.<br /><br />One question: in regards to the autograph issue. Is this in reference to many Christian theologians/pastors (Sproul being one of them) stating that the Scriptures are inerrant in their original manuscripts? If I'm understanding this correctly (not sure and the reason I ask) does this mean that there are those who think the translations of the Scriptures (KJV, RSV, ESV, NIV, etc) are not inerrant? Nonnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452040267177962781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-8145325574623365112012-10-01T13:58:48.186-07:002012-10-01T13:58:48.186-07:00This isn't a symposium on Nonna-ism, concernin...This isn't a symposium on Nonna-ism, concerning which we've heard quite a lot, and many, many times.<br /><br />So: John Frame, DWG, great book. Bible, God-breathed and wholly-sufficient, all 66 books.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-71186153234982938302012-10-01T13:42:56.138-07:002012-10-01T13:42:56.138-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Nonnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452040267177962781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-34894871766651618532012-10-01T13:13:13.366-07:002012-10-01T13:13:13.366-07:00Glad to hear you still read some Christian writers...Glad to hear you still read some Christian writers, Nonna.<br /><br />To be clear, I said "Biblically faithful, godly, deeply thoughtful writers." That was a filter that would exclude Mormon, Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Christian Science, and the like, apart from some special point of research.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-20219185929607348722012-10-01T13:07:16.854-07:002012-10-01T13:07:16.854-07:00"seriously, pastordude, studentdude - you rea...<i>"seriously, pastordude, studentdude - you really ought to read out of your own little parochial circles."</i><br /><br />As an Orthodox Christian, I concur with this statement. While I have read writings of Schmemann, Hopko, Pelikan, Romanides, and of course many of the ECF (to mention a few), I also have read writings of Owens, Edwards, Luther, Whitefield, Wesley, Calvin, Lewis, and several others outside my parochial circle. Such an endeavor can expand one's horizons. For me, I have come to appreciate the various issues with which Christians from different faith traditions have had to struggle. And despite differences among Christians of good faith, God granted them the grace to affirm the Holy Spirit at work among those who were not of their parochial circle - such as Whitefield's deep love and respect toward Wesley, a man with whom he had much contention.Nonnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452040267177962781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-18996610666105845062012-09-30T15:48:27.925-07:002012-09-30T15:48:27.925-07:00Fantastic! I'm teaching an adult Sunday Schoo...Fantastic! I'm teaching an adult Sunday School class going through our statement of faith, and we just discussed Scripture the last two weeks--inspiration, whether Scripture "contains" or "is" the Word of God, inerrancy/infallibility/trustworthiness, sufficiency & clarity, etc. And I'm putting together a "further reading" list to email everyone.<br /><br />This review and the book will be a fantastic addition. Especially the parts about "a book on Scripture that begins with two pages of Scripture lauding the excellencies of Scripture", and "Frame treats of Scripture's self-testimony well and at length", and the "main contention". ("Scripture's self-testimony" was obviously a big part of the discussion.)<br /><br />Thank you <i>very</i> much, Dan!Jugulumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09932658890162312549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-58286011276644722312012-09-28T13:18:34.225-07:002012-09-28T13:18:34.225-07:00Yup. Well said.Yup. Well said.Jared T. Baergenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07934502836422481775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-50776489579177194612012-09-28T13:11:38.848-07:002012-09-28T13:11:38.848-07:00It's like saying to Eve, "Okay, let's...It's like saying to Eve, "Okay, let's set aside what both God and the Serpent say about that fruit and come to our own conclusion about it."<br /><br />Game<br />OverDJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-46489364159453882622012-09-28T13:10:10.133-07:002012-09-28T13:10:10.133-07:00"...if human reason is autonomous, the God of...<i>"...if human reason is autonomous, the God of the Bible does not exist..." - Frame</i><br /><br />Yes, yes yes! <br /><br />When an atheist says, "I don't believe God exists and I don't believe the Bible. So let's meet on neutral ground and weigh the evidence for God and the Bible", too often I have heard the evidential apologist say, "Sure. Let's put our Bible on the shelf and discuss the evidence."<br /><br />In doing so, and if I've read Frame right, then you have not only put your only weapon on the shelf, but you have just conceded to being an atheist in a sense. There is no neutral ground.<br /><br />The authority of the Bible must never be put aside for human reason (although I do believe the Bible will always coincide with reason, but reason is not the starting point). <br /><br />This book looks very interesting. Good review, Dan. Another book I might have to add to my reading list!Jared T. Baergenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07934502836422481775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-49579565015992299922012-09-28T11:17:17.783-07:002012-09-28T11:17:17.783-07:00I recommend all four of Frame's "Doctrine...I recommend all four of Frame's "Doctrine" books. I warn you that some of his paradigms and phraseology slowly work their way into your speech/thinking. What he says in three sentences, takes me thirty. (Three is very important to Frame.) <br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15022952140197189579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-44823517285394032742012-09-28T07:59:33.888-07:002012-09-28T07:59:33.888-07:00This sounds like an essential library addition. Th...This sounds like an essential library addition. Thanks for the review!JGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03116405895683599572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80096989335100411642012-09-27T18:45:41.248-07:002012-09-27T18:45:41.248-07:00I figured it was just another one of our many shar...I figured it was just another one of our many sharp female readers.<br /><br />I do have that book, and have heard good things about it, but have not yet read it. I am glad for the recommendation.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-1620093534140964962012-09-27T18:04:05.788-07:002012-09-27T18:04:05.788-07:00By the way, I'm Nate, Colleen's husband. C...By the way, I'm Nate, Colleen's husband. Can't figure out how to change the ID in Google. Sorry for any confusion.Natehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08611894544220674901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-78686027900519216142012-09-27T18:02:39.639-07:002012-09-27T18:02:39.639-07:00Frame's book is a must-have; great rejoinder t...Frame's book is a must-have; great rejoinder to Barth and his influence. As for the Canon issue, have you checked out Michael J. Kruger's "Canon Revisited"? Frame says its the most recent book on the subject he recommends most. It's been an immense help to me in answering canon questions. I'm recommending it to anyone who cares to listen.Natehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08611894544220674901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-15072611319421183782012-09-27T11:15:33.318-07:002012-09-27T11:15:33.318-07:00Your description makes me want to get this book ri...Your description makes me want to get this book right now. The doctrines related to scripture are some of my favourite; that is, if it's okay to say we have favourite doctrines.Rebecca Starkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04648669478887197766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-630719742512245752012-09-27T10:55:30.244-07:002012-09-27T10:55:30.244-07:00Firstly, footnotes are the most caring thing a pub...Firstly, footnotes are the most caring thing a publisher can do for avid readers. That alone stacks in its favour.<br /><br />On a more serious note, I got to read the lecture outlines from his course of the same name at RPM and it was so edifying. Lord willing, I'll add this to the arsenal :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14529584785690604116noreply@blogger.com